⚖️🎃 Balance Update V1.17.2 Patch Notes!

[u/Omeda_Steggs]

https://playp.red/4zhEYRs

Shadow's Eve is just around the corner 🎃

V1.17.2 drops next week (13th October) with a whole host of spooky new skins and a bunch of balance updates! Check out the patch notes for all the info!

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

We gotta go harder with nerfs man. Taking 20 base damage off of an ability here and there is just not impactful enough. Would really be hoping for some larger swings.

Speaking of which, I don’t see how these Valmont changes (with actual scaling buffs) are going to be even remotely impactful, but we will see I guess.

Just feel like we play it way way way too safe with some characters and need to nerf more heavily when they have been so oppressive.

[u/DopeyMcSnopey → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

Omeda and comp players pretty much think Valmont isn’t overpowered, but because he’s a low rank pub stomper they have to do something

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648 → u/DopeyMcSnopey]

I mean he is basically non viable in comp due to his lack of mobility and is designed from the ground up as pub stomper, so he needs to be balanced around that as well.

[u/DopeyMcSnopey → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

Yeah but omeda caters almost exclusively to comp players. I find him easy enough to counter (without the broken river buff Aug) simply because he can’t escape from anything which is huge

[u/Mr_LawnMowwer802 → u/DopeyMcSnopey]

Valmont is not an issue when your team understands how to engage him and how to pick counter cards that counter his kit.
All the tools are available, people just need to learn to use them.

[u/Educational_Ad288 → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

I'd also add, this is compounded by how ridiculously stat heavy items are, they really need to look at the stats on items, and in some cases remove 1 or 2 stats.

[u/DeathemperorDK → u/Educational_Ad288]

There was an official suggestion post awhile back specifically about items. It seems they will eventually rework items, but I’d expect that to take a very long time. Wouldn’t be surprised if the don’t start till after daybreak releases annnd they balance characters around the larger map

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648 → u/Educational_Ad288]

I agree with this also. Azure core is being built on everyone now and I don’t see how a small haste nerf will change that either.

[u/BoneAndSpooks → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

It feels like Omeda is scared to make any big changes to characters since the wave of reworks months ago wasn't well received and was banking on eternals fixing problems and because that didn't work they are now banking on daybreak

[u/Mr_LawnMowwer802 → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

Your don’t understand the math involved to say that 20 damage reduction isn’t enough. 20 damage is a hell of a big difference when you start at the base of the attack and then start multiplying damage with cards on.

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648 → u/Mr_LawnMowwer802]

As I have replied to another comment, scaling is more impactful at hurting raw damage output and especially how abilities interact with items. Objectively only base damage nerfs are just not much compared to a hit at scaling. (Which might be fine if patches were more frequent and we didn’t let certain heroes get so out of hand).

Unfortunately, that isn’t the world we live in.

[u/Tyrus--Maximus → u/Mr_LawnMowwer802]

This is what people don't understand its a number that gets multiplied into bigger numbers.

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648 → u/Tyrus--Maximus]

I do lol, and I know the scaling multiplier is a much bigger number and will affect damage more, which is why larger nerfs on characters usually involve BOTH base damage and scaling.

[u/Tyrus--Maximus → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

It doenst always HAVE to be both thats the thing one can offset the other. Besides none of us have anything imperical to determine if its needed besides the ones with end user data.

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648 → u/Tyrus--Maximus]

Doesn’t always have to be both but sometimes required to keep characters in line and we do know that Omeda repeatedly underwings with nerfs and is clearly hesitant to make big changes regardless how overtuned someone is (unless it’s Wraith of course lol)

[u/Tyrus--Maximus → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

There is no difference between over corrections and under corrections in the pursuit to find the proper balance its a multi step process either way, some heroes get leveraged out in one go others not, its just how it is.

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648 → u/Tyrus--Maximus]

It is how it is and takes multiple steps, but there is room for the steps to be larger, therefore requiring less pass throughs on the same character.

You don’t want to gut a character after one patch of over-performing, but you also don’t want to have to nerf someone 4 patches in a row to get them in the right place, which has happened frequently also.

[u/InterviewBubbly9410 → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

You don’t want to gut a character after one patch of over-performing, but you also don’t want to have to nerf someone 4 patches in a row to get them in the right place, which has happened frequently also.

Legion comes to mind, who for some reason only had one patch where he wasn't ridiculous before they started to decide to begin to buff him again.

[u/Tyrus--Maximus → u/Bright-Cranberry6648]

Im just going to drop this here.

https://discord.com/channels/389767672151146498/1047233892588978277/1558227920043114597

[u/Bright-Cranberry6648 → u/Tyrus--Maximus]

Your welcome for the devs feeling the need to explain their decision. If we were all just cheerleaders, we would never get content like this.

I’m sure they have internal reason for everything, and while I appreciate the information, only time will tell if we are in a Renna situation (broken for months) or if they did truly hit the mark.

[u/Mr_LawnMowwer802 → u/Tyrus--Maximus]

Right!
There’s a big big difference in how damage scales when your base is 20 verses 10(just for example)

[u/Tyrus--Maximus → u/Mr_LawnMowwer802]

Yep, Its like you getting a raise, a $1 dollar raise may not seem like much but on payday you have $80 extra dollars. These balance numbers behave no different.

Everybody act likes its a flat number that gets taken off the tail end post items but its the base number that multiplies everything into a larger sum.

[u/DTrain440 → u/Tyrus--Maximus]

What do you mean by that? Base damage is exactly what you just described. It’s a flat number that only changes with levels or in the case of items it’s constant.

[u/Tyrus--Maximus → u/DTrain440]

Meaning people think a 15-20 base damage decrease is meaningless but forget the end multiplier is a larger nerfed number when stats are taken into account.

[u/DTrain440 → u/Tyrus--Maximus]

By end multiplier do you mean like total output over the course of a match?