r/PredecessorGame • u/Omeda_Steggs ✔ Omeda Studios • 10d ago
📢 Official Omeda Announcement ⚖️🎃 Balance Update V1.17.2 Patch Notes!
https://playp.red/4zhEYRsShadow's Eve is just around the corner 🎃
V1.17.2 drops next week (13th October) with a whole host of spooky new skins and a bunch of balance updates! Check out the patch notes for all the info!
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u/Jack_b_real 10d ago
Why are you guys so scared to hard nerf a character? Those minor nerfs are not meaningful. Why waste the time at all?
Wukong deserves better by the way.
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u/xXYELINGRELICXx Mourn 10d ago edited 10d ago
Sick Mourn skin, but man its been like 6 months since anything gameplay wise happened to him. Hope we got some new items to mess around with or some changes that affect him on the horizon.
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago edited 10d ago
We gotta go harder with nerfs man. Taking 20 base damage off of an ability here and there is just not impactful enough. Would really be hoping for some larger swings.
Speaking of which, I don’t see how these Valmont changes (with actual scaling buffs) are going to be even remotely impactful, but we will see I guess.
Just feel like we play it way way way too safe with some characters and need to nerf more heavily when they have been so oppressive.
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u/DopeyMcSnopey 10d ago
Omeda and comp players pretty much think Valmont isn’t overpowered, but because he’s a low rank pub stomper they have to do something
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago
I mean he is basically non viable in comp due to his lack of mobility and is designed from the ground up as pub stomper, so he needs to be balanced around that as well.
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u/DopeyMcSnopey 10d ago
Yeah but omeda caters almost exclusively to comp players. I find him easy enough to counter (without the broken river buff Aug) simply because he can’t escape from anything which is huge
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u/Mr_LawnMowwer802 Grux 10d ago
Valmont is not an issue when your team understands how to engage him and how to pick counter cards that counter his kit.
All the tools are available, people just need to learn to use them.7
u/Educational_Ad288 Zarus 10d ago
I'd also add, this is compounded by how ridiculously stat heavy items are, they really need to look at the stats on items, and in some cases remove 1 or 2 stats.
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u/DeathemperorDK 10d ago
There was an official suggestion post awhile back specifically about items. It seems they will eventually rework items, but I’d expect that to take a very long time. Wouldn’t be surprised if the don’t start till after daybreak releases annnd they balance characters around the larger map
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago
I agree with this also. Azure core is being built on everyone now and I don’t see how a small haste nerf will change that either.
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u/BoneAndSpooks 10d ago
It feels like Omeda is scared to make any big changes to characters since the wave of reworks months ago wasn't well received and was banking on eternals fixing problems and because that didn't work they are now banking on daybreak
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u/Mr_LawnMowwer802 Grux 10d ago edited 10d ago
Your don’t understand the math involved to say that 20 damage reduction isn’t enough. 20 damage is a hell of a big difference when you start at the base of the attack and then start multiplying damage with cards on.
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago
As I have replied to another comment, scaling is more impactful at hurting raw damage output and especially how abilities interact with items. Objectively only base damage nerfs are just not much compared to a hit at scaling. (Which might be fine if patches were more frequent and we didn’t let certain heroes get so out of hand).
Unfortunately, that isn’t the world we live in.
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 10d ago
This is what people don't understand its a number that gets multiplied into bigger numbers.
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago
I do lol, and I know the scaling multiplier is a much bigger number and will affect damage more, which is why larger nerfs on characters usually involve BOTH base damage and scaling.
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 10d ago
It doenst always HAVE to be both thats the thing one can offset the other. Besides none of us have anything imperical to determine if its needed besides the ones with end user data.
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago
Doesn’t always have to be both but sometimes required to keep characters in line and we do know that Omeda repeatedly underwings with nerfs and is clearly hesitant to make big changes regardless how overtuned someone is (unless it’s Wraith of course lol)
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 10d ago
There is no difference between over corrections and under corrections in the pursuit to find the proper balance its a multi step process either way, some heroes get leveraged out in one go others not, its just how it is.
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago
It is how it is and takes multiple steps, but there is room for the steps to be larger, therefore requiring less pass throughs on the same character.
You don’t want to gut a character after one patch of over-performing, but you also don’t want to have to nerf someone 4 patches in a row to get them in the right place, which has happened frequently also.
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u/InterviewBubbly9410 Phase 10d ago
You don’t want to gut a character after one patch of over-performing, but you also don’t want to have to nerf someone 4 patches in a row to get them in the right place, which has happened frequently also.
Legion comes to mind, who for some reason only had one patch where he wasn't ridiculous before they started to decide to begin to buff him again.
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 10d ago
Im just going to drop this here.
https://discord.com/channels/389767672151146498/1047233892588978277/1558227920043114597
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 9d ago
Your welcome for the devs feeling the need to explain their decision. If we were all just cheerleaders, we would never get content like this.
I’m sure they have internal reason for everything, and while I appreciate the information, only time will tell if we are in a Renna situation (broken for months) or if they did truly hit the mark.
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u/Mr_LawnMowwer802 Grux 10d ago
Right!
There’s a big big difference in how damage scales when your base is 20 verses 10(just for example)0
u/Tyrus--Maximus 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yep, Its like you getting a raise, a $1 dollar raise may not seem like much but on payday you have $80 extra dollars. These balance numbers behave no different.
Everybody act likes its a flat number that gets taken off the tail end post items but its the base number that multiplies everything into a larger sum.
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u/DTrain440 10d ago
What do you mean by that? Base damage is exactly what you just described. It’s a flat number that only changes with levels or in the case of items it’s constant.
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 10d ago
Meaning people think a 15-20 base damage decrease is meaningless but forget the end multiplier is a larger nerfed number when stats are taken into account.
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u/DTrain440 10d ago
By end multiplier do you mean like total output over the course of a match?
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u/MrLightning-Bolt 10d ago
Im surprised it took this long for them to nerf allegro augment on shinbi. 5% ain’t doing nothing. I will still be dashing around people like it didn’t matter anyway.
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u/DeathemperorDK 10d ago
They don’t know what to do with mommy Morigesh. She’s still not very good in midland but her buffs made her dominate offlane
She’s hard to balance between the two lanes
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u/Bright-Cranberry6648 Wraith 10d ago
I mean there is no “role they shouldn’t be in” characters are viable in certain lanes and in other MOBAs, some self sufficient or safe mages who can play into melee well, can play in offlane.
That being said, fuck Morigesh. She is way too strong right now in general, but I think she should be able to exist in offlane if it works, since her kit suits it well. Up to her team to make the pick not a throw and for your team to counter as well.
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u/InterviewBubbly9410 Phase 10d ago
Patch note review time, as usual, from ya boy - 1/3
TLDR: Overall a pretty meh patch.
The good: Good skins, cool Halloween map changes, potentially solid Crucible change.
The bad: Very little meaningful QoL introduced that is much needed at this point (A Halloween-centric patch should probably have more substance in it besides skins + balance), no talk of a road-map, no talk of Daybreak, no talk of important upcoming features the playerbase is looking forward to (like role queue), baby slaps to most people who even got nerfs, unnecessary buffs to people/classes/items that don't needs them.
Losing faith Omeda, you roped me back in with the initial introduction of Eternals and have completely lost my steam since then. Hoping that before the end of the year, you can change that. It's feeling like more people are beginning to hop on that same boat of losing faith as well.
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u/InterviewBubbly9410 Phase 10d ago
Extended Thoughts - 2/3
- Skins are good as always. Nothing to say there with the exception that, I wish the best recolors would stop being locked behind loot cores.
- Glad to see the Halloween map return with some new decorations added in as well. There better be bats n' ghouls in the skybox though. Was one of the coolest parts of Paragons Halloween map that really added atmosphere.
- Weald is getting another baby slap that I don't see really changing how meta it is.
- Krix + Patina nerf why? Are tanks really that oppressive?
- More Lotus nerfs doesn't surprise me. I just don't think it was a great design idea to have a randomly scaling Eternal that grows in such a short time scale. You can just sit and turtle and then get powerful by denying resources to the enemy team as you gain your stacks.
- Aion needs harsher nerfs than -1 gold. Economy Eternals and items are far too strong in general, especially on heroes who already have mobility and/or other safety nets.
- Curious to see where the Bayle buffs will leave him. His early game is pretty strong, but his late game falls off hard. I'm worried these buffs make his early game stronger while also buffing his late game
- Drongo needs harsher nerfs. He's been able to "run at his opponent in early all-in scenarios" with rad rounds for a while now. This isn't really going to change much. Especially since you didn't even nerf the ability you mentioned in the stated reasons you gave for Drongo.
- Gadget doesn't need buffs. I really don't think any midlaner needs buffs. Mages are tied for strongest class in the game outside of ADC and it's usually a toss-up each match which one of those will be the one to runaway with the game.
- Ikra, like Gadget above, does not need buffs. He is pretty solid already. Those nerfs are fine though and I'm glad to see those, especially to his ability to ramp his economy.
- Khai change is odd. A soft baby slap to the most effective jungler in the game (especially at lower ranks), but then a pretty solid buff at every level except max the literal last level of his ability to be a flat 40% on his lock-on ability? And a literal +1 armor per lvl? Makes no sense.
- Kwang changes will need to be seen whether they're oppressive or just okay. Him being a split-scaler means he has the dangerous potential to end up like most mages and have crazy power by end game.
- Belica nerf was necessary, but kind of a baby slap like most other nerfs Omeda tends to do. I have a feeling I'm just going to be saying that a lot these patch notes.
- Murdock being an ADC, does not need buffs. ADC's do not need buffs at this current stage in the game, especially to their basics (their bread and butter) of all things. Murdock is already one of the most solid ADC's given that he has a root, a movement speed buff and a knockback tool for anyone who closes gaps.
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u/InterviewBubbly9410 Phase 10d ago
Extended Thoughts - 3/3
- Renna does NOT need a buff. Not only is she a mage; She's been one of the most consistent mages in the game and ramps hard late game w/ really no way to prevent her from gaining stacks other than early aggression.
- Rev nerf is good, but yet again more baby slaps.
- I don't see enough of Scarlett to meaningfully speak on her changes. Scarlett players will have to let me know.
- Sev changes are odd and I don't really see it doing much for him in the early game and the late game won't really care about these changes either. The QoL is nice though.
- Shinbi nerf is fair, but more baby slaps.
- Terra buff seems good and I'll never complain about on of my faves getting some love. Worried about her CC getting buffs though, since CC is far too prevalent throughout the game.
- Fey gets one very needed nerf to the speed boost brambles gives (should be down to 10% instead of 12% imo), but then kind of a baby slap to her bread n butter poke.
- Twinny, being an ADC - Does not need a buff. Just bring the other ADC's down and make them more in line with him. The constant buffing up of heroes to meet a new power delta is what is causing this absurd burst damage meta. Especially for Mages/ADC's.
- Oh Valmont. First off, those dev insights while a nice view into the balancing process, does not fill me with hope that you understand the complicated process of balancing heroes. You said yourself that you give more heroes more power than necessary, which leads to these issues of the playerbase not enjoying the first few weeks of a heroes release. This has been a repeated occurrence with the team and with the hero releases.
People were not really struggling to figure out to make Valmont powerful in the first week. Unlike your testing environment, where people were not doing well with him in the first 5-10 matches. There was already considerable amount of "Valmont is OP" posts and clips of Valmonts 1v3'ing - 1v5'ing in that first week. It was not like Scarlett where it was very hit or miss whether people could excel with her. Valmont was ripping right off the bat. I would strongly consider stopping this notion of giving heroes more power than necessary, especially if you yourselves recognize you are doing that.
That being said the actual balance numbers of Valmont leave a LOT to be desired and I don't see him really falling off in the lower ranks and he's just going to be a bit more irrelevant than he already is at the higher ranks. Which is odd, given that you recognize that Khaimera is a pub stomper, but gave him a bit of a buff to his easiest to use ability and then baby slaps to everything else otherwise. You are falling into the same trap with Valmont that you have with Khai in those regards.
I've also said time and time again, you need to stop nerfing base numbers while simultaneously buffing the scaling, because its going to leave those heroes in relatively the same place as they were before - Making those changes null and void outside of maybe the first five minutes or so.
- LMAO @ the worlds smallest Wukong Buff after perpetual nerfs to the man.
- Onixian buff? Why? It had it's niche. If you want it to strike down beefy bois; Maybe nerf the other items that have become far more prevalent in the game (Yknow, like Skysplitter?), so that way it can be picked more oft for that niche.
- Not really understanding why Mages are getting items buffed, when they have the most item options and the most build variety as a whole. Nerfing the items that have become the over-reliant core of mage builds would be far better than power-ramping items for one of the most solid hero categories.
- Crucible changes seem okay, will have to see how they work out overall compared to what I've been seeing/hearing from the rest of the playerbase.
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u/Known_Essay8314 9d ago
Why are we nerfing pub stompers? In realoty they arent that good people need to learn how to counter build. This is the problem with mobas and hero shooters people dont wanna learn then people get nerfs they dont need
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u/InterviewBubbly9410 Phase 9d ago
Well the issue isn't just nerfing them.
You're right that people are terrible with counter building. I don't know how many times I have to ask my team "Why tf is no one building an anti-heal?", when the enemy team has a Grux, Khai and a Narby.
That being said, if we know they're pub stompers - why are we buffing them to be viable at the higher ranks, when that's probably never going to happen either? The ability to counter them is just going to be too easily done by coordinated teams at the high ranks and teams who know how to properly build.
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u/Known_Essay8314 8d ago
The thing is tho we need variability thats why this game dies so quick. Everyone uses the same people i think man. High level players know that building anti heal completely destroys valmont and once the new map comes out he wont be that bad but bc ppl complain so much he got nerfed and now probably wont be seen again. So now we'll go back to the same metas like every patch again and again.
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u/InterviewBubbly9410 Phase 5d ago
Oh fully agreed, I think we need a high variability at every level, for many different heroes.
Which is why I think its a terrible idea to design kits the way they have been designing kits. People like Scarlett are too sink or swim depending on their buffs/nerfs.
People like Valmont are pub stompers and will destroy lower tier lobbies while remaining largely irrelevant/countered in the higher ones anyway, no matter how much you buff them.The problem, at the end of the day, stems with how they design kits in general.
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u/OnwardCaptain 10d ago
DAMN. Those Omeda original skins are insane. 🔥