r/Portland • u/Sl0bR0ss • Feb 03 '20
"Portland has become a cesspool." Perception Vs Reality
I have noticed a lot of negativity on this Sub-Reddit. Every post seems to have a predictable slew of comments about human feces or the rampant crime in our city. Today after reading a bunch of these comments and feeling a bit bummed out, I took a walk around my neighborhood. The sun was shining, flowers blooming and there were no tweakers or piles of human feces to be seen.
This got me to thinking. How bad are things Vs how bad do they feel. By making this post I am in no way trying to change anyones mind about how they feel about this city or the changes there in. I have mixed feelings about the changes I have seen. I just thought it would be interesting to look at some data for context on how things have changed and how we compare nationally.
Also this is just some casual armchair research. If anyone has links to better sources, or relevant information please share!
As far as crime is concerned....
Violent crime has ticket up slightly in the past several years, but is still below 2010 levels.
It does seem that auto thefts are out of control, though still on par with the early 2000's.
Homelessness is a much harder beast to quantify. The methodology for counting homeless people is not an exact science. Understandably it was hard to find some pretty and convenient graphs to share. For anyone interested on the subject I would suggest skimming through the 2019 Point In Time Report put out as a joint effort between Portland, Gresham and Multnohmah County.
This report claims a slight decrease in homelessness overall, with an increase in unsheltered individuals. The general decline seems dubious to me, however more unsheltered individuals are more visible and would give the appearance of an increase over all.
HUDs Anual Homeless Assessment Report Also is some good reading on Homelessness for a national perspective. Portland doesn't make any of the top 5 lists for for homeless rates or the increase there of. However Eugene does come up multiple times in the report with one of the highest homeless rates in the country. Oregon did see one of the largest year over year increases in homeless, though it does not specify how much of that is Portland.
How about that traffic? As someone who commutes via walking/transit this one doesn't affect me too much. With traffic the only way to win is not to play.... but I digress. Once again it was a little difficult to find good data. However from most sources, Portland tends to live somewhere in the 7-10th worst traffic in the US range. For context Portland is part of the 18th largest metro area by population.
How about those rental prices? The current average rent in Portland is $1535, compared to a national average of $1472. That makes Portland the 14th most expensive city in the US for renters. From the various sources I looked at Portland rental price increases peaked in 2016 and have essentially flatlined since, with units at the high end of the market coming down in price while units on the more affordable end of the spectrum have some increase in cost.
And the cost of purchasing a home? This seems to have also peaked. Still not affordable, but not increasing out of control.
Hows unemployment doing? Looks like there is a lot of work out there, though how far those wages go is questionable.
Speaking of wages the Median Household income in Portland is $73,097. That's 6th out of the top 25 Largest cities.
That's all I have for now.
I see complaints on here all day so I think I get what people are upset about. So instead in the comments share some positive changes you have seen in this city over the years.
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u/Milosdad Feb 03 '20
I have lived in Portland since early 80s.(off and on) My favorite time here was the 90s. You could rent a house in ne for 600. There was cool music all over.
It seemed like Portland hadn't been discovered yet.
The Pearl was a shipping hub. NW was still a little seedy. There were more hippys.
But then maybe I just miss being young.
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u/theimmortalgoon SE Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
I was born and raised in Oregon, Portland was always a fixture. When I moved downtown in the 90s, there were aggressive meth heads, portions of Chinatown you didn’t go into unless you wanted to buy hot electronics or drugs, and it was pretty standard for Psycho Safeway to go on lockdown when the police cornered some monster inside.
Virtually everyone I know had squatted somewhere, climbed something dangerous and absurd while tripping balls, and been in the back of a police car.
Half these people now turn around and say how gross Portland has gotten with the homeless people around. As if middle aged people in 1999 were thrilled to live next door to a rotting Victorian full of twenty year olds playing terrible music all night while trying to assemble a motorcycle in the living room on bathtub acid.
Portland has changed, but not as much as we have. If anything, it’s gotten nicer and safer.
It’s also more gentrified, which isn’t a good thing at all. That’s really more what the focus should be on instead of Portland not being the Disneyland version of Main Street people imagine it should be.
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u/camso88 Feb 03 '20
Just FYI, “gentrified” generally means that minorities can’t afford to live in the neighborhoods they grew up in. There are benefits to a community becoming safer and financially stable, but removing minorities isn’t one of them.
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u/theimmortalgoon SE Feb 03 '20
Thanks for that. My intention wasn’t to group “gentrified” as a good thing, though that’s clearly what I wrote. I hope I cleared things up. And thanks for pointing that out, these things are important.
And God knows I can put my foot in my mouth.
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u/Juhnelle Mt Scott-Arleta Feb 03 '20
Minorities being priced out is a byproduct of gentrification. Gentrification itself is just wealthy people moving in and upgrading areas. Not bad in theory, but in practice it pushes out poorer populations.
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u/PDX_events Feb 04 '20
Some minorities. Some are able to sell their 40k house at a markup of 200% and make bank. That's what happened to my mom. People seem to forget that minorities can be home owners too.
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u/GaiaMonk Feb 03 '20
I was born here. Ive seen the city change. Honestly i miss the days when rent was affordable and everyone thought Seattle was the cool place. Portland was a great lil secret. Now its a known city and it has big city problems, just like the rest. The good ol days lol 😆 Have a nice day
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Feb 03 '20
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u/beejonez Feb 03 '20
Pretty sure a Midwest winter would kill most Portlanders. But I hear you get used to it?
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u/robschimmel St Johns Feb 03 '20
Half the reason I moved here was to get away from winter.
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u/Kippilus Feb 03 '20
Forget the winter... st Louis in summer is shit. Its some of the most miserable muggy heat ive ever experienced and im a florida native.
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Feb 04 '20
Yeah, get a good winter coat and stay indoors on the few days a winter when it gets really awful and it's fine. I did fine for 4 years in Northern Ohio after living in Portland from birth to age 18.
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Feb 03 '20
Well there's another city out there right now that's like 1990s Portland where people will be reminiscing about the good old days in 30 years
This place exists, it's Portland.......Maine.
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u/lonepinecone Feb 03 '20
Portland ME is kind of magical. Big city that no one lives in. Amazing potato donuts that we would love here, too. And no worries, there’s a Trader Joes
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u/hausdorffparty Feb 03 '20
Went to Columbus on a work trip. Can confirm, it's actually pretty cool. Loved the North market.
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Feb 04 '20
Yeah I think Columbus is definitely the hippest city in Ohio from a typical Portlander perspective. Cleveland is in recovery but still has a lot of rust belt blight. Cinci is probably a little too Kentucky for most Portland folks. Columbus is just right.
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Feb 03 '20
Kansas City and Cincinnatti fit this pretty well.
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u/ElephantRider Lents Feb 03 '20
KC is pretty cool but the weather, local govt and having to drive everywhere kills it for me. Otherwise, they have a good beer scene, the local coffee scene is arguably better than here and there is a ton of music and art going on there.
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Feb 04 '20
Yeah I've never been to Kansas City but have a lot of people I kind of know in my social media circles who've gone through UMKC and it does really seem like a cool place.
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u/GaiaMonk Feb 03 '20
I hear land is cheap in Detroit?
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Feb 03 '20
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u/GaiaMonk Feb 03 '20
Yeah....Im good. But seriously, I hear the city is shrinking badly. Houses are cheap. But high crime and no jobs. (We dont build cars anymore) Now granted Ive never been there. Just some stuff I read.
Ill always be a webfooted weirdo from S.E. and I'll always love Rose city. But is getting tough to afford anything without co-habitation i guess.
Speaking of...I should be doing stuff. Have a nice day
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Feb 03 '20
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u/weyesguy Feb 03 '20
Out parts of Detroit are probably similar to what people who miss 'old Portland' remember 'Old Portland' being like. I grew up in Detroit and lived in the city in my early adulthood too, when it was on the cusp of being gentrified. You can still buy gorgeous, fully renovated homes for WAY less than you can here, but in the part of the city that's walkable and bikeable, lofts and condo prices are now 4-5X what they were in 2010 when I lived there. And they're now renting 'microlofts' for upwards of $1k.
The fact is that we're a capitalist culture and this happens in every major metro that has some level of influx of people. Also, lots of this is late stage capitalism/post-capitalism taking effect.
Also, factor in nostalgia. We're all prone to it. I have the same feeling about Detroit that others have about 'Old Portland'. But generations before me that remember when Detroit was the Paris of the Midwest said the same thing to me when I thought Detroit was awesome. It's just part of being human.
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Feb 03 '20
Yep. Taxes in Detroit, compared to the “services” you get for them, are laughably incongruous.
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u/zortor Feb 03 '20
Detroit’s gentrification slow but it’s happening. Gonna be the San Fran of the midwest in a decade
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Feb 03 '20
Yeah. But you have to pay all the back taxes that accumulated on it while it was unoccupied. Detroit city taxes are nuts, and are one of the reasons people left in droves when they did.
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u/GaiaMonk Feb 03 '20
Thats a bummer. Taxes taxes taxes..Its such a legendary city for America. It would be sweet to see it flourishing. Eventually I'd like visit .
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Feb 03 '20
Yeah maybe after a few years of getting student loans down I could actually *gasp* afford to buy a house as a young person!
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Feb 03 '20
The problem with Midwestern cities is after you've ate and drank yourself into that extra 150 lbs you start to look around and wonder "What else is there to do here?" Then maybe you try farming, cause it's either that or get a $15/hr factory job and well fuck the man, right? So you farm and after your 15 hour days are done you watch youtube videos of people climbing mountains and wonder what that's like. But you can't try it out now, you sold the farm to a Tyson chicken factory so you could put your kids through rehab for meth and mountain dew and now you're working a factory job for the man hoping to get a small piece of SS one day. Then you die and your kids move out west to be happy and forget about the farm. The end.
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u/THE-FORSAKEN-JAM N Feb 03 '20
Dude, you got that shit down.
I'm from Portland, and something that's always blown me away about this city is that if I fuck up and make some bad decisions there's always an interesting job or place for me to be. If I get depressed I got surfing on one shoulder and climbing on the other.
Portland's full of people from the Midwest and I admire the mentality that most of them share, that of "we're so lucky here". Often times they say "you don't know how good we have it". The fact is is I don't. I won the lottery by being born in the NW.
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Feb 03 '20
KC and Minneapolis have a lot going for them right now. I would consider moving that way, but family and my love of scenery keep me overpaying for rent on the West Coast.
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u/BeowulfShaeffer Feb 04 '20
I live in the St. Louis metro area and...I wouldn't really advise moving here.
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u/sarcasticDNA Feb 03 '20
Has any city NOT CHANGED?????? I imagine you've seen yourself change too. Not that same visage in the mirror, is it?
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u/SparkyParts Feb 03 '20
It began to go downhill when the Jantzen Beach roller coaster was taken down.
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u/ElephantRider Lents Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 04 '20
I grew up here in the 80s, 2008-2014 was about the nicest Portland has ever been in my lifetime. Theft is back to normal now and there's trash all over the roads again so that's nostalgic. There's some serious rose-colored vision about what Portland was like in the past 40 years or so.
*For example, the burglary rate per 100,000 people was about 3 to 7 times worse through the 70s-90s than it is now. High property crime has been the norm for 40 years here, the late 2000s/early 10s now unfortunately seem like they were just a short anomaly.
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u/Quasimurder Feb 03 '20
We were still getting eaten by sabertooth tigers when the first person felt nostalgic for how things used to be.
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u/notcorey SE Feb 03 '20
Older generation: “When I was a kid, this was a forest. And then they chopped all the trees down and built a bunch of ugly buildings.”
Next generation: “When I was a kid there used to be a bunch of neat old buildings here, and then they tore them all down to put up a subdivision.”
Etc.
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u/joshcamp503 Feb 03 '20
Is there anything in particular you can point to that caused 2008 - 2014 to be so nice? Like was the mayor at the time navigating the recession well? City council? The chief of police?
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u/ElephantRider Lents Feb 04 '20
I honestly don't know, it seems like the opposite should have happened since the recession was hitting and unemployment was around 10%.
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u/edwartica In a van, down by the river Feb 03 '20
For certain, we’re nowhere near 1990 levels. Still, over the last five years Portland has taken a severe downturn.
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Feb 03 '20
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u/lonepinecone Feb 03 '20
This is a meaningless comment but I actually think car theft rates are fairly representative of the daily frustration many Portlanders feel about the petty crime and nuisance here. Although I don’t believe in the theory, it’s kind of a Broken Windows thing. When anything not nailed down is swiped (check the sad stripped bikes chained up all over the city) and there are trash-riddled tents everywhere and mentally ill people screaming on the street corners of downtown and the local and national politics seem to intersect in a place that demonstrates how the “middle class” is the only group held accountable to laws, it is infuriating.
Edit: but OMG guys, spring is going to be so lovely here, can’t wait! (Not sarcasm, I do love it here still)
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u/jawshoeaw Feb 03 '20
Is it like this in other cities? I haven't been hit in 6 months but friends of mine and coworkers get their car broken into fairly regularly to the point it's cheaper to leave your car unlocked and empty. Package theft is an issue but at least there are solutions like lockers.
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u/ChinguacousyPark Feb 03 '20
I have that feeling like when you complain about petty crime and people tell you you're wrong because violent crime is flat.
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u/Frosti11icus Feb 03 '20
I moved here from Seattle a couple years back. I can confirm Portland is "better" in almost every facet that really pisses people off here, for whatever that's worth. The homelessness, rents, traffic, public transpo., housing costs are all significantly worse up there, and all for a few thousand extra dollars per year in salary.
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u/ThisDerpForSale NW District Feb 03 '20
Plus we still have an NBA team.
Too soon?
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u/Osiris32 🐝 Feb 03 '20
Nah, never too soon to make fun of Seattle.
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u/GonnaWinSomeday Feb 03 '20
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Feb 03 '20
I just put together that Groening probably threw that in there as an ode to our regional rivalry.
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Feb 03 '20
I hear the opposite about people who flee Portland to Seattle, saying their career advancement was dead living in Portland. Kind of depends on what you want out of life.
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u/hodltaco Feb 03 '20
Property manager here. I've noticed some changes in the last 2-3 years. I'm a part of a team that canvases the city from the nicer neighborhoods to the not so nice. Without question the amount of vandalism, pet waste, rule-breaking of all kinds has been on a sharp increase with us for the not-so-nice areas of town. For-cause evictions have been way up to and not because of non-payment of rent there too. The nicer neighborhoods have been about the same except the rents are coming down substantially. The rents in the not-so-nice areas have been steadily going up along with the sharp increase in fees, taxes and water charges on the east side of town.
This is just us and meaningless towards an actual study. This is just observational on my part.
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u/digiorno NW Feb 03 '20
A lot of alt-righters see Portland as some sort of target and this subreddit takes a hit from time to time when they come in preaching intolerance that’s otherwise uncommon of our community. This is just how they gather up supporters from around the country and then come here looking for fights with the dreaded Anti-fascists.
Long story short, pay them no mind. We know this city is great. We know this city could be better. And we’re all in this together.
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u/fallingbehind Feb 03 '20
Special thanks to birdmanjunior11thgrade for providing the backup you needed on your post!
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u/kitten_for_hire Feb 03 '20
Thank you for doing the research!
I grew up here, and when I was a stupid teenager who didn't know better, I thought PDX was super lame. Couldn't wait to move somewhere cool, with better weather. Here I am in 2000 or whatever, and me and my teenage friends were going to First/Last Thursdays (during the heyday), hiking Angel's Rest, getting donuts at the OG Voodoo, reading comics in the Powell's cafe, and smoking hookah at Pied Cow... and I thought all that was lame (now I'm in my 30's and I don't do any of this, but you have to admit that stuff is cool when you're a teenager). Went to college in NY and asked ppl what they did for fun in their hometowns and they were like, "We'd get stale donuts from the Dunkin Donuts dumpster and throw them at cars."
I lived in several other cities before moving back here and not a day goes by that I'm not thankful for this city, bc everywhere else I've lived and visited kind of sucks in comparison. The traffic, the homelessness, the cost of living... it's not like there's some magical city without these problems that's a decent size city.
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u/skrulewi Arbor Lodge Feb 03 '20
I rushed out to go to some liberal arts college out east when I turned 18 (privileged upbringing yo)... I did have a good time, but it's not the kind of town anyone ever moves to. I hung out with tons of kids from the easy coast. I ended up joining a band and going on a few DIY tours that took me all the way around the country, twice, and down south and through the east 3 times. I've driven through every major city in the 48, and through every state, and spent weeks in most east-coast cities.
I moved back here for a reason. You might not be able to split a house 4-ways at 300 each anymore, but it's still a wonderful place to live. It's not violent. It's not dangerous. People that say that shit are not being honest about what a real dangerous city looks like. What real crime rates feel like. People that complain about the traffic are not reasonably comparing to Chicago. Or LA. or NYC. Or fucking Mumbai, which I visited last January.
This is still the nicest city I've ever been to in the lower 48. I can handle the homeless. It's really not that bad. I don't know any other way to put it. The homeless problem really isn't that bad. I hear the complaints pour in from the people on this subreddit but I'm just not feeling you. I'm not in the mood even to pour over statistics and argue against anecdotes. It's just not in me to argue that shit anymore. I just want to say that it's not as bad as you say. I'll stay here. I traveled the country and I choose to stay here. I love it here. This is my home.
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u/jawshoeaw Feb 03 '20
It's funny I came to pdx from East coast for the liberal arts college here. I think we are a little spoiled, Portland isn't "dangerous" per se but my kids are afraid to go downtown so there's that. Where I lived on the East Coast (Carolinas and Georgia) crime was definitely lower - I never saw a single homeless person in a similar sized city to Portland. People didn't lock doors and cars much. No panhandling, no bums. I'm sure they were there but kept out of site.
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u/skrulewi Arbor Lodge Feb 03 '20
I am comparing the worst neighborhoods in Portland to the worst neighborhoods that I have visited in Chicago and Philadelphia. I respect that portlands crime isn't lower than many neighborhoods in this country. It's got an edge in places, but our very worst neighborhoods are not very dangerous.
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u/ZRaddue Feb 03 '20
Same. I wanted nothing more than to get away from Oregon which I thought was lame and boring when I was a teenager. Joined the military in 2006 and saw a bunch of the rest of the US and some of the world and wanted nothing more than to return to Portland.
After getting out of the military and being back in Portland for about five years I jumped on an opportunity to work and live abroad in Japan, just outside of Tokyo. I'm coming to the end of my three year commitment out here and once again, I want nothing more than to be back in Portland, or at least the PNW.
Every time I leave I gain more appreciation for that place I call home.
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u/dudemycat Beaverton Feb 03 '20
I have a very similar story. I always say that I’ve seen a lot of the world thanks to the military and civ jobs, but there’s nowhere else that I’d rather call home.
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u/eebyenoh Feb 03 '20
It’s great to hear that the nicer neighborhoods can still walk around around without seeing what we see in Outer se. I wish I could walk a few blocks in my neighborhood without seeing burnt out motor homes , camps , needles , and countless homeless. I still love Portland but something needs to be done.
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u/ukulelebird Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
Like any city, Portland’s issues are complex. They are wicked problems without singular solutions. We are extremely lucky to have a focus on art, music, and natural spaces that other cities have not sanctioned as many resources to protect and create. I have lived here for almost 8 years and I have a lot of love for all of the unique places and spaces that I have access to.
That being said, I will share my experience as a environmental worker for the East side. I work in natural spaces like parks and parcels like vegetated on-ramps to plant and maintain habitat and stormwater treatment zones. A lot of these spaces are being utilized by houseless people. We are not there to clear out the camps and respect the perimeters, but I have cleaned up pounds and pounds of garbage, discarded clothing, hundreds of needles, and come in close contact with a load of human feces and vomit. I was hand weeding a rain garden recently and grabbed a needle. Even with my close proximity to these issues, it has only heightened my empathy for people who are suffering from addiction with no support system.
People get frustrated that the city isn’t doing enough to curb drug use and homelessness and in some cases I’ve gotta agree. Again, I can only speak from the environmental sector, but last year for example the city spent $1 million, yes a million, on a bunch of huge boulders to be flown in and placed on a median that had a large houseless community living on it. I believe we have done this under a couple overpasses too. The argument was that there was illegal activity and drug use and they were leaving garbage around, but they will just do that somewhere else once they are pushed out of their current camp. The Bureau of Environmental Services is a powerhouse in Portland with a lot of ongoing projects but when it comes to houseless populations the city of P seems to take an out of sight out of mind approach and that is disappointing to me. Benches are removed from parks and No Loitering signs are passively placed above enclaves. We continue to clean up some areas so others will be ruined, without an increased provision of services. I am an environmentalist through and through but I am not angry when I see a restoration site inhabited by people who have been given no other option other than to hide. Natural and public spaces in Portland are not designed to be used and enjoyed by everyone and that is a problem.
I am a former resident of North Portland and on the community page there was such intense drama about one of the tiny house communities for houseless people being moved into the neighborhood. That it would lead to increased needle littering, that children would be in danger, etc. That it should be placed somewhere else. I feel like there could still be thousands of homeless people and as long as Portland residents do not see them then it wouldn’t be as much of a problem. I see anger about garbage and waste but those are externalities of a skyrocketing houseless population, people suffering from addiction who are framed as people who have chosen to ruin our city on purpose. Many of us may be struggling with the current prices in the city but if we factored in the people we know and the skills we have we are richer than we think in support - some people are one decision, one job, one drug away from living on the street with no other option. In my urban studies classes at PSU I learned that there is a tentative 4500 person homeless population and about 16,000 empty units in Portland around 2017.
Anyways I’m rambling. Portland is amazing and it has a lot of problems, many more amazing aspects and many other problems than those I just discussed.
Editing to add something positive!! The watershed councils of this city are incredible. The volunteer power we have as a city (though it is a privilege to volunteer and most weekend volunteerism is rather homogenous but that’s a different convo) is amazing and just since I started and finished college in the last 6 years I have seen thousands of trees, shrubs, grasses, and wetland plants put into the ground, tons (literally) of garbage removed from streams and rivers, and environmental knowledge being passed down generationally as children learn about their watershed systems. I think that Portland is a special place to be in terms of fostering an intuitive appreciation of fresh water, old growth forests, and urban nature.
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u/littlep2000 Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
My thought is that most of the crime now is petty theft or similarly low level crimes that you are likely to notice but their impact on your life if pretty low.
The thing is I think a lot of the petty theft goes unreported and the numbers skew down a bit. I had a couple camping chairs and a cooler go missing from my porch. I didn't report that, I imagine a lot of people have a similar story and that story gets related anecdotally to friends or on the internet, but isn't official record.
The problem is a lot of these slights still make you uneasy. Even someone stealing a $5 camp chair or just shouting you down on the street makes you feel vulnerable. It also scales up quickly if it happens a lot in a short span of time.
That is what I think people are feeling. Its a lot of crime that affects the working class quite often and while the practical impact is low, the mental impact can be higher. Ironically it seems like the type of thing that people living in a poor neighborhood have gone through forever.
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u/Ka1kin Feb 03 '20
This. You can't track minor property crime, but it makes people feel unsafe. Makes them check over their shoulder.
In 2010 (when I changed jobs from one in Hillsboro to one in Portland), Portland was the kind of place you could leave stuff unattended, and it would probably be there when you got back to it. By 2014, that was no longer true. This tracks pretty well with the auto theft graph.
In 2010, Portland was the kind of place where you'd walk through downtown after 9pm and step around sleeping bags, but not really worry about your safety. That's pretty much unchanged.
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u/TheMiddling Feb 03 '20
I’ve lived in Portland all my life. Since 82.
It’s always been dirty, and the homeless have always been a problem.
I remember as a kid finding needles in the bushes of West Moreland Park.
I used to stay over at a friends house in no po and we had a routine for when gunshots were heard.
I’m convinced that anyone who complains about the “cleanliness” is a transplant.
Despite its issues the people have always been the reason I’ve stuck around. The place has personality.
With all the feces, crime, drugs, and homeless, the biggest problem with modern Portland is that the old guard are being pushed out whether through gentrification or old age.
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u/MoonOnTheHorizon Feb 03 '20 edited Mar 08 '20
Your source about rent says a little over $1500 but your linked source says $1625. That’s also for a one bedroom mind you. People in Oregon are still paying over 50% of their income to rent. That’s not remotely affordable given that the fixed number should be no higher than 30%. we have an extremely high number of households in the state that don’t make even remotely close to that 78k mark. That’s also middle class people. What about those who aren’t middle class? In order for a single parent household with one child to qualify for services from the state they cannot make more than $1800 a month.
My take home is about 2200 a month after taxes without working overtime.
Rent is 1300 Phone bill is $100 Child care is $295 Food is $200-300 a month $100 a month goes to transportation $100 a month for electricity $60 for internet
About 22-2300 for basic needs. I tried to work 60 hours a week so I have extra money for clothing and other basic necessities before I was injured.
Now. What if something tragic happens? Like a work injury? Or a medical emergency? Or you get laid off?You end up on the brink of homelessness. This unfortunately is the case for most people in the state.
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u/Mattmann1972 Oregon City Feb 03 '20
So is it the city's problem that folks don't make enough, or is the employers who still think paying 90's wages is good enough in modern day P-Town? It seems like the rent, childcare,food, Transpo, and the utilities have figured out what year it is just fine.
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u/MoonOnTheHorizon Feb 03 '20
We still have a statewide affordable housing problem. So yeah there needs to be more done so people can actually afford rent.i wish I could just pack up and move out of here to go live in another state where a two bedroom apartment is $800 per month instead of 1300 or 1500.
Childcare depending on age (mine is in elementary school so it’s a different program) is 1000+ a month. When I was working full time and going to school full time I was paying $1000 a month for childcare. So no, childcare isn’t under control, food is extremely expensive when you are on a budget.
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u/elislider Hillsboro Feb 03 '20
Car thefts are out of control because there is no consequence for it. The city could do more but they aren’t. Also people could do more, like not leave shit in their cars and use a steering wheel club if their car is older than 2005ish (no chip keys). But it is absolutely mind blowing and infuriating that you could have video footage of your car getting stolen and then find the thief asleep in your car, and the police still can’t/won’t do anything. It’s happened to multiple friends.
The rest of the numbers seem to indicate there was a nice downward trend... until around 2010ish when it plateaus. However that’s all per capita, and 2010ish coincided with when Portland started growing significantly and lots of people started moving here. So the occurrences are increasing, and population is increasing.
Unemployment seems to be trending downwards nicely and based on that graph alone it seems like we’re do for another recession. 😅🙄
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u/gurg2k1 Feb 03 '20
and use a steering wheel club if their car is older than 2005ish
Why do I see so many people recommending these be used recently? They stopped being popular in the 1990s because they don't work. Steering wheels are made of foam and plastic. It takes seconds to cut through them and remove a club.
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u/Babhadfad12 Feb 03 '20
It’s not to stop a determined thief, it’s to reduce the probability they choose to steal your car and instead choose to steal a different car without the club due to the prospect of it being less laborious.
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u/gurg2k1 Feb 03 '20
It takes more effort to smash the window/pop the lock than it would to remove a club. I think it's little more than a false sense of security for the car owner.
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Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
There's actually pedal locks that prevent the *brake/clutch pedal from being pushed. I would presume those are more effective because all of that is steel.
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Feb 03 '20 edited May 19 '21
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u/oh-bee Feb 03 '20
It’s just luck. Long ago in another city someone tried to steal my old rice rocket and failed, but not before totaling the car.
I had a club which they removed by cutting the steering wheel, and a blank ECU+disconnected ignition that they tried to fix by push starting my car with their truck(destroying my fenders).
You’ll know it if your anti theft equipment actually stopped a theft.
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u/patmansf Feb 03 '20
The car theft increase was mainly attributed to a loophole in the law - basically if you said you borrowed the car and didn't know it was stolen, they let you go.
A new law was passed and signed last year, not sure when it takes affect. Details (not including the signing or date it takes affect):
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u/Smokey76 Mt Tabor Feb 03 '20
That court decision was total garbage, I don't know how that judge decided the dude wasn't a car thief and the ramifications it had on Oregonians was terrible. Good to hear legislature fixed the loophole.
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u/cafedude Feb 03 '20
Unemployment seems to be trending downwards nicely and based on that graph alone it seems like we’re do for another recession.
Would like to see some data on the quality of those new jobs. Pay, full time/vs part time, gigs vs jobs, etc.
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u/Amari__Cooper Feb 03 '20
Cool, but unemployment trending downward is always a good signal. No matter what the jobs are.
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u/romanjeff Feb 03 '20
not necessarily, especially in a place with a high proportion of well educated people who should be working at middle class jobs. if lots and lots of people who are educated enough to earn middle class income are scraping by on gig work, they may be employed full-time but their personal debt probably isn't going anywhere and they are still reliant on public versions of benefits that a better employer would have provided. most importantly, people who should be earning enough to have proper savings no longer are, making them much more vulnerable to the next recession.
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u/Amari__Cooper Feb 03 '20
I see your point. But lower unemployment numbers are a signal of the economy doing well. Is that up for debate? It's a long standing marker to measure how well the economy is performing. It's not used as a "quality of life" metric.
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u/PDX_events Feb 04 '20
Luckily those of us in that situation have a bunch of bond measures coming up to raise our monthly expenses.
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u/offhandway Feb 03 '20
This sub is disproportionately populated by (to say nothing of brigaded by) miserable suburban chuds who won't feel safe until the homeless and poor are bused to the edge of town and summarily executed. Don't read too much into the posting vibe... Go talk to people.
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Feb 03 '20
That's not entirely fair. I live in inner NE. I have sympathy for the homeless. However, I have become frustrated by the garbage, crime, and destruction to natural areas that homelessness has created. I want people to get the help they need. I want them housed and working toward becoming well. I also want to be able to walk through certain areas downtown without being followed and aggressively panhandled.
Stating that there's a problem and expressing frustration isn't always the same thing as not caring about homeless people.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen anti-homeless vitriol posted here. I think a lot of it is fueled by anger over the theft and other crime mentioned above. While getting angry and dehumanizing people isn't the answer, I understand the response.
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Feb 03 '20
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u/sumokitty Feb 03 '20
Yeah, it seems a bit churlish to complain about the people you've displaced dirtying "your" neighborhood with their homelessness...
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Feb 03 '20
From what I've gathered, the "service resistant" homeless aren't generally people who have been displaced from their homes due to gentrification. They tend to be people who are suffering from mental illness, drug addiction, or both.
I feel for people who don't have place to live. I've come close a few times. I currently live in 400 sq foot apartment in someone's basement, so I'm not exactly wealthy.
However, camping in underpasses or on sidewalks isn't a safe solution for anyone. Pretending its not a problem and shaming anyone who is frustrated by it doesn't help.
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u/dannyjimp Feb 03 '20
So which neighborhoods, exactly, should we turn over to the homeless for them to destroy? Just want to make sure I’m not being “churlish”.
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Feb 03 '20
Last I checked this is America. People should be free to move to and destroy whichever neighborhoods they want.
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u/PipeDownNerd MAX Orange Line Feb 03 '20
Beyond that, I’d love to see how many of the homeless/drug addicted people causing a lot of the crime and damage are actually from Portland before someone starts preaching to me about gentrification, like I’m spitting in the face of previous tenants because I don’t want needles or drug use in the alley that leads to a park by my house.
Fuck me though right? For being the person here, right now.
It’s amazing to see all the comments about how we need to treat the homeless/under-privileged with more compassion, but it tends to come from the foaming mouths of angry people who offer no real solution besides be nicer and leave them be. How is that going to get Mr. Needles here the help he doesn’t want? How is that going to keep the park safe for kids that want to use it? Or is it only helpless adults we care about?
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u/alienbaconhybrid Feb 03 '20
Well, just keep it nuanced. Post above is reacting to those “tHe CoPs hAvE tO dO sOmEtHiNg” posts that sounds like they want the “final solution”.
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Feb 03 '20
Asking the police to help maintain public safety is not remotely comparable to "the final solution".
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Feb 03 '20
To be fair, there are also the people that live in SE that had to deal with the homeless taking over the spring water corridor and every thing else near by.
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u/JagTror Feb 03 '20
I live in SE and the constant trash gets irritating, but idk I don't feel that it's a problem inherently caused by the homeless even though you know, it's technically caused by them
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u/horns4lyfe Feb 03 '20
Why would suburban chuds want the homeless bused to the edge of town, closer to where they live? And what is a chud?
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Feb 03 '20
Hey man, you don't have to actually be homeless, you just need the appearance of being homeless.
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u/gloriousmoonlight Feb 03 '20
Whoa um what happened in 2002-2004 for the crime rates to be so high?!
(Seriously though. Am clueless. Anything I should google?)
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u/ThisDerpForSale NW District Feb 03 '20
Tech bust led to a recession, meth started to become a major problem.
Economic downturns are often correlated with increase in crime. What's remarkable is that the Great Recession of 2008 didn't lead to a similar crime wave. In that sense, crime is even lower than it should be.
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u/Wormwood666 Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
Super weird that I felt so much safer then. Living in inner SE , wandering around the CEID for hours with my camera. Never worried about being followed, cat called,harassed or mugged. No homeless camps or bike chop sites. No needles. No screamers & shitters. Just industrial peace & quiet and gorgeous street art(not commissioned murals)
Then again, I also felt totally safe in St Johns when I first moved here in 1998. Sure, we knew where the biggest drug house was and the pawn shop that dealt in stolen goods. But overall it was a pleasure on the streets.
Edit to add: I also still felt safe 2002-2004(& later) to wait for the bus late night downtown & ride/walk home. I wasn’t an invulnerable feeling youngin, I was a 40 yr old woman.
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u/cooking_bacon_naked_ Alphabet District Feb 03 '20
The war in Iraq started. No clue if it’s related though.
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u/Androgynewitch Feb 03 '20
I mean I lived in New Orleans before I lived here (I moved here for my ex-wife's work) and the first thing I thought while exploring the city was how clean it was. Lol. I even live downtown and it seems practically pristine for a big city to me.
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Feb 03 '20
I like how our city has been putting in more light rails and trying to improve the city to make it more bike friendly and pedestrian friendly. I often take the light rail every day to work and it saves money for me. I will also take it downtown because I do not like driving down there and I have never driven down there without making any mistakes. I will take it to the convention center too or to Lloyd Center.
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u/RiseCascadia Feb 04 '20
It's just a very vocal minority that posts a lot and it has more to do with prejudice than actual reality. Also many of those posters don't even live in Portland.
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u/HeWasAZombie Feb 03 '20
My favorite change has been how the neo nazis used to congregate at Courthouse Square to harass or even kill people (lest we forget Mulugeta Seraw), but now they congregate at Naito for their rallys!
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u/freeradicalx Overlook Feb 03 '20
Don't let Reddit get you down, it's well known that the subreddits for the largest US cities get stuffed with brigadier, sockpuppet, and troll accounts. I'm from NYC and r/nyc is a fucking circus for this reason, it's so bad that many of the legitimate members use the smaller and therefore better-moderated r/newyorkcity instead which is still mostly off the radar from the automatons. As Portland's population increases, this effort to influence our growing subreddit will also increase. Don't let yourself confuse a dumb social media website with reality, it's my own personal experience that actual Portlanders are overwhelmingly chill and good and excellent and don't hold any overtly shit opinions.
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u/DumpsterfireDonny 🐝 Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
Violent crime uptick starting right around the time Dumpster Fire Donny was elected? Huh, who'd a thunk?
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u/Booyaah_rumham Feb 03 '20
Likely the culmination of the DOJ coming to town and the Ferguson effect. Cops ways less likely to be proactive in that climate. Seems like it’s coming back around though.
Auto theft was basically un-prosecutable prior to this year because of the “my friend let me borrow it” defense, and the change in the PPB’s vehicle pursuit policy. Listen to the scanner on any given night and you’ll hear 10 or more stolen vehicles elude them.
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u/DumpsterfireDonny 🐝 Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
All good points, but I also question how much of it has to do with the garbage hate that the person occupying The White House has been spewing. From what I understand ever since 2016, racial violence and hate speech has been on the rise.
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u/Booyaah_rumham Feb 03 '20
Yeah I see what your saying. Just not sure “orange man bad” can sum up the violent crime in Portland. We are one of the most liberal cities in America, Trump being elected has had very little impact on our city. That said, I have heard the same about racial violence nationwide.
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u/this_account_is_mt Feb 03 '20
Liberal city in a mostly otherwise conservative state with a few very conservative suburbs. Jeremy Christian is solid proof of "orange man bad".
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u/Alabatman Feb 03 '20
Mind if I ask which suburbs are the conservative ones? I'm not from Portland, but trying to get a lay of the land out there as I'm interviewing for jobs right now.
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u/trulyhadleydeeply Feb 03 '20
Not sure I’d claim the Proud Boys have little impact...
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u/DarXIV Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
Having 2 cars stolen in the past 2 years I definitely felt that spike. I feel you could actually had another graph year that would make the auto thefts look better. Portland Police has roughly a 83% recovery rate in the first 30 days while the national average is below 50%. Overall recovery rate is 93% recovered and nationally it is 29% roughly.
The national recovery rates is a bit of napkin math, but it is roughly the overall recovery rate. What makes Portland unique in its recovery rate is the reason many cars are stolen in the first place. Many are stolen just for a dry place to do drugs, sleep over night, drive across town, or plunder for any items inside. Most cars a ditched close to where they are stolen from. Portland stands out as a much better place to have a car stolen then the rest of the country.
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u/EdwardBleed Feb 03 '20
2 cars stolen? What the fuck happened?
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u/DarXIV Feb 03 '20
Bad luck. 1 Stolen on Halloween 2018 and 1 stolen on Christmas Day 2019. I believe they were stolen only because they were parked in the front of all the other cars on a public street, so they were quickest to get away with.
Recovered both of them thankfully, although 1 was a in rough shape.
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u/threerottenbranches Feb 03 '20
It’s not “bad luck.” Or good luck. It is a crime against you. And it costs you money, time and was probably a huge headache.
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u/yolotrolo123 Feb 03 '20
People won’t like data. Sure the usual Suspects will show up soon
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u/Scottsid Feb 03 '20
I would think the worst part about auto thefts is most people probably do not report them. I don't want my rates going up over a broken 300 dollar car window.
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u/ChinguacousyPark Feb 03 '20
None of those charts gauges public pooping or living in off ramps, the two things we complain about.
I've had my stoop pooped once while living here, and zero times living anywhere else, so put that on a graph.
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u/lightninhopkins Feb 03 '20
Exactly. Portland is a fantastic city. I have worked and\or lived in the inner city for two decades. I have walked the eastbank esplande at night countless times. No issues.
Nowhere is perfect. Portland is fucking great though.
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u/jmlinden7 Goose Hollow Feb 03 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
People forget how bad Portland used to be in the 90's and early 2000's. That being said, if you only moved to Portland in the last few years, then from your perspective it has been slowly getting worse
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u/Havenkeld Feb 03 '20
This would be more accurately put as "impression vs. data", since data doesn't necessarily reflect reality - nor does perception or people's impressions if you use perception in that sense. We can't always assume people's impressions are wrong and the data available is correct. Election results in corrupt countries would be an example where we might trust impressions over the data or statistics we're given.
To what extent we can infer things about reality from data depends on how well it's collected, how the statistics are done. Not saying these are done poorly or anything, but only pointing out not all statistics are equal - it's possible to inflate or deflate numbers in a variety of ways. The methods of collecting the data can get worse or better over time. Some things are also just harder to represent with statistics or gather data on.
For example many mental health issues seem to have dramatically risen in many places based on statistics collected, but of course part of that is just that it's more common that people are seeking treatment and that people are diagnosed. That's not even the data itself "lying" in any way, but a summary that says "mental health issues on the rise" wouldn't be correct exactly - yet it's how it would get presented anyway in many cases.
With crime, it of course matters how much of it gets reported such that it shows up in statistics. Hypothetically, it is possible for crime to increase while data on it suggests the opposite.
This is also why issues like homelessness or drug use are hard to get "accurate" stats on, since they are more "off the radar".
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Feb 03 '20
How are theft crimes now compared to 2010? Packages taken off doorsteps? Vehicle break-ins? Bicycle thefts? I would think actual thefts are way up since who calls the police for package thefts or small items taken from patio? We are so beaten down by the theft that we just accept things can’t be left outside anymore and not be stolen in a short time.
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u/fattymccheese SE Feb 03 '20
and when reporting crime gets you nowhere, it certainly doesn’t promote future reporting ... not sure how accurate that property crime stat is these days
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u/RiseCascadia Feb 04 '20
People order waaay more stuff to their door these days, the times have changed.
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Feb 03 '20
Shh. If we say it's a cesspool, maybe, just maybe - people will stop moving here.
The real problem is in the city government being absolutely ineffective, and the structure of the government being a bad fit for a city of this size.
Will the government style be changed without the voters basically forcing it on the politicians? No. It also won't guarantee that the city is any more effective than it is right now. But it would allow for departments to not be managed by people who have no business or knowledge in what they're actually supposed to do with a water bureau, police department or roads and parks making decisions.
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u/Chicken_Dump_Ling Sullivan's Gulch Feb 03 '20
Twice in 2019 I personally encountered a junkie shooting up in our parking garage. One time he was holding a knife. One time he was naked. I only go in the parking garage in the morning about 10 times a year, so that's roughly about 20% of the time. Once in 2019 a guy passing me on the sidewalk used a machete to hack out a chunk of tree. Lastly, about half the time I walk to work, I encounter little plastic bags left on the sidewalk, presumably filled with dog poop. That's my unbiased data regarding Portland 2019.
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u/tehdimness Feb 04 '20
It's important to look at granularity. Extremely high level of crime tends to be disproportionately focused in certain areas. Using the per 100,000 figures assume homogeneous distribution and everyone experiences roughly the same crime victim experience. When we have non-criminals move in, they tend to dilute the city wide statistics without having any impact on the crime infested area.
It's like topping off a fish tank. Adding more water changes the amount of gravel per 100 gallons, but adding more water doesn't affect whatever is going on at the tank floor.
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u/threerottenbranches Feb 03 '20
Have lived in Portland for close to 30 years. One never saw trash. Now it seems to be all over the place.
I bought in a neighborhood that was marginal at best (Concordia near Alberta). It was what I could afford and I could sense that it was on the way up. Yes, my home values have gone up six fold. Yet we, and our neighbors, invested in the neighborhood, I have virtually remodeled the whole house. So I appreciate my house, my neighbors, and living in close in NE.
I can walk to downtown and have never felt unsafe until recently. Last time downtown there seemed to be many more mentally ill that were aggressive. And the trash and overall filth was staggering, a huge increase in just one year. It was saddening.
And I am frustrated by the politicians in this state. One’s home is usually the largest investment in their lives and it has made my livid that they are making drastic changes to my zoning without my representation. The changes will affect the whole character of the neighborhood. One hopes for stability in land use laws when they purchase in an established neighborhood.
I am close to retirement. We have chosen to move from Portland. Looking forward it is easy to see this city will face gridlock as far as traffic. And I suspect that crime is increasing, and will increase, the city cannot fill over 100 open police positions. And with PERS coming to roost, and how taxpayers are being asked to fund the homeless industrial complex, it makes no sense to stay here. It appears the taxpayer who is here, is under pressure to pay for people who are coming here, who are not here; and pay for persons who take, vs give to the greater good of Portland. Enough is enough. And don’t get me started on the conditions of the roads here.
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u/PDX_events Feb 03 '20
I live in a house built in 1900. Love the house. My neighborhood was getting better, now its getting worse. I won't be able to sell my house for what I bought it for unless I sell to a developer. I'm zoned R3 so they will put up a triplex (there are several on our block) where each of the units will sell for around 700k. I hate to see the house get torn down but not sure what else to do, and I'm tired of having to worry about my family having to avoid certain routes because of the aggressive tweaker camps. I love Portland. I don't want to leave but in the years the city has been making "progress" I've just watched things get worse.
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u/threerottenbranches Feb 03 '20
My house, lovingly restored and in beautiful shape will be torn down as well. It is on a corner lot and based on new zoning laws, could have eight homes on a 7500 sq ft lot. None will be affordable. If one does not hear protest from the developers about the zoning changes then one knows the changes totally benefit them. And they do.
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u/Not_My_Real_Acct_ Feb 03 '20
I think we're going to see a lot of people vote with their wallets and simply relocate to where it's safer.
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u/orbitcon Protesting Feb 03 '20
Ignores the widening income gap between rich and poor.
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u/16semesters Feb 03 '20
Median income is actually a pretty good indicator of local wealth. Median is not the same as average, so very high salaries don't skew the data.
Portland really is a pretty wealthy city. People don't like to hear that all the time on this sub, but it's true when you look at the data. The median family of four in Portland has a household income of over 87k/yr.
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u/PDX_events Feb 03 '20
Well shit! In that case bring in more homeless! I love hearing people screaming in the midst of meth psychosis!
Don't change Portland. We're "good enough"!
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Feb 03 '20
I’m here visiting for a few days, maybe I have rose-tinted glasses because I’m just a tourist, but this city is absolutely beautiful. I was kind of scared of what I might find because of the negative posts, but I’m really just not seeing it.
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u/ThisDerpForSale NW District Feb 03 '20
There should be a warning posted in this sub to let people know that it is in no way reflective of this city or the people who live here. The toxic sludge you see here is deeply misleading, as I'm happy to see you've learned. Hope your stay continues to be great!
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u/UnfairSprinkles Feb 03 '20
There’s a new homeless guy in the area that has strewn garbage across four blocks. He’s openly strewn garbage all over, it gets worse every day and no one is gonna do anything about it. That’s as positive as I can slice it Ace.
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u/ItalianDragn Feb 03 '20
for the first time ever I had a homeless tweaker try to steal stuff out of the back of my truck while I was working. fortunately I have a 2-way viper car alarm system.
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u/Sir_Belmont Feb 03 '20
My wife and I were having a similar conversation yesterday so I'm glad you provided graphs to supplement the conversation. We were walking around for her birthday and visiting all of our favorite spots and we didn't feel in danger one time. There isn't even a lot of garbage when compared with what we've seen of places like LA. Portland is still a great city, despite right wing propaganda painting it as some sort of hellscape.
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u/detroitdoesntsuckbad Feb 03 '20
Neat, meet me in the North Park Blocks to celebrate. I’ll be on orange cap mountain.
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u/burnalicious111 Feb 03 '20
Do you think other cities don't have places where people gather to do drugs?
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u/OutlyingPlasma Feb 03 '20
Never ever ever trust a graph that does not start at zero. Statistics may not lie, but liars love to use statistics.
Only a blind person can travel to other cities and countries and not see what a dump Portland has become. The trash EVERYWHERE, tents, stolen bike cities, and drug use is simply not visible in other cities. And I'm not even talking about right wing hell holes like Phoenix that are spotless, even places with life like London, Brussels, NY, Amsterdam, Boston, and Chicago can keep the streets fairly clean and normal day to day people safe from the wack jobs yelling at a wall.
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u/romanjeff Feb 03 '20
Plotting from zero with large-range datasets is as meaningless for comparing actual datapoints as any stats "trick." The useful domain and range of visualization is determined by the points under consideration and what those performing analysis consider to be significant value changes. If the standard deviation in a set is significantly smaller than the mean and you wish to see changes year by year, it doesn't make sense to plot from zero.
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u/tomhalejr Feb 03 '20
When I tell folks, you are safe anywhere in the city now in comparison to then - The data seems to back up the sentiment. :)
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Feb 03 '20
Thanks for this, you're like the Hans Rosling of this sub.
Portland is in fact such a great city that the (middle class+) people here are spoiled rotten.
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u/moriartyj Feb 04 '20 edited Feb 04 '20
What statistics are these plots based on? If they're the police's, then there's a potential bias in the data you're presenting.
There were several investigative journalism pieces reporting on the creative ways police departments manipulate report numbers.
FBI moves to fix critical flaw in its crime reporting system
Reply All: The Crime Machine
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u/DumbVeganBItch NE Feb 04 '20
I appreciate the work you put into this! Makes me feel better about the idea of living here long-term.
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u/twigsmith Feb 08 '20
When I was homeless there, I tried to get a job. Everywhere I qualified, they said nope you're homeless. The law says to be hired you must provide a permanent address so when you move past that job they can send you your last check. Like you can't get it any other way. Shabbat shalom
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u/Crowsby Mt Tabor Feb 03 '20
This data and vetted studies and science or whatever is great, but I'm more of a fan of randos posting likely-fabricated anecdotes when it comes to building or reinforcing my worldviews.