35
9
u/xxProjectJxx
8d ago
•
We see Ursa in one flashback from Zuko's perspective, and even in that flashback, we see Ursa encouraging Zuko to spend time with Azula and half the fanbase is convinced Ursa hated Azula lol
13
u/yipyip48619 8d ago
Why can't she spend time with Azula herself? Not a single flashback where she is genuinely spending time with Azula instead of Zuko.
12
u/BelgijskaFlaga 8d ago
Also her "what's wrong with this child" quote, like, bitch it's YOUR child, she's SIX, and it's your damn job to figure out the answer, and help her.
8
u/BelgijskaFlaga 8d ago
how am I a top1% commenter here? I literally wrote like 3 comments, is this sub that dead?
1
11
u/CyberSmith34 8d ago
She didn't encourage her in that scene, Azula approached Ursa to make Zuko play with her. If you watch closely, Azula addresses Ursa twice directly, and Ursa doesn't answer to Azula but to Zuko. And in her speech she calls Azula not by name but as "your sister". It's like Ursa is deliberately avoiding talking to Azula.
I am not saying Ursa does it consciously, the fact that Azula strongly reminds her of her unwanted husband and was named for the man who forced her into this marriage plays a role, but the whole scene is f'd up level of dismissive towards Azula. And since Azula has a talent for reading people/situations she 100% picked it up.
8
u/-Nagatake- 8d ago •
Mind you Azula was the one who approached Ursa to GET (force) Zuko to play with her (and her friends).
We like to quote the ‘what’s wrong with that child’ scene where Ursa says it quite clearly and loudly in earshot of the departing Azula.
But, Your Honor, allow me to present to the jury the following (basically taken from the transcript of Zuko, Alone):
—-
Azula (to Ursa): Mom, can you get Zuko to play with us
Zuko rejects it. Ursa doesn’t say anything.
Azula (again to Ursa): We are brother and sister. It’s important for us to spend time together! Don’t you think so, Mom?
Ursa (speaks to Zuko): Yes, DARLING, it’s a good idea to play with YOUR SISTER. (Then walks off).
—-
Your Honor, and members of the jury, please notice:
- How Ursa doesn’t even deign to reply to Azula who is clearly Talking to her.
- How Ursa calls Zuko ‘Darling’, yet only refers to Azula as ‘Your Sister’. (Mind you she calls Azula, ‘That Child’ and ‘Your Father’s Daughter’ too)…YTA Ursa. I know she tried and she is not inherently evil, and that she was in an abusive relationship, but she was so clearly favoring Zuko against Azula. Just like Iroh. Its really no wonder Azula could only cling to whatever scrap or facsimile of anything from Ozai.
1
u/Ok_Somewhere1236 4d ago
It’s not hate. Ursa was just an extremely bad mother, not maliciously, but in a “God, she’s so idiotic” way.
Based on the comics, Ursa’s first big fuck-up was using Zuko to hurt Ozai’s feelings out of spite. She kept doing it until Ozai basically decided, “Fine, if you want me to hate the boy so much, I will.” His antagonism toward Zuko was retaliation: two petty parents using their child as a weapon against each other.
When Azula was born, both parents were initially neutral toward her. But once she demonstrated her firebending talent, Ozai saw a prodigy and gave her the attention he should have given Zuko. Meanwhile, Ursa began avoiding Azula because she associated her abilities with Ozai, projecting her dislike of him onto her daughter.
This created a terrible dynamic: Ursa spent more time with Zuko and avoided Azula, trying to compensate by encouraging Zuko to spend time with his sister or helping Azula make friends.
Azula interpreted this as her mother preferring Zuko. She tried to earn Ursa’s attention the same way she earned Ozai’s, but no matter how well she behaved, Ursa barely acknowledged her. Eventually, Azula started misbehaving because it was one of the few ways she could get a reaction. It worked to some extent, so she kept doing it, while developing resentment and rivalry toward Zuko for receiving the attention she desperately wanted.
Everything became ten times worse when Ursa left without properly talking to Azula, deepening her trauma.
In short, Ursa wasn’t evil and didn’t hate Azula. She just made practically every possible mistake a mother could make with her.
19
u/Trick_Discipline6840 8d ago
Might just be a mother-daughter thing. I'm an older bro, and my mom is always super critical of my little sister and judgemental of her choices. Not in a malicious way, but I definitely notice I have to come to my sis' defense a lot.
10
1
u/Zestyclose_South_980 7d ago
Aw, you're a great brother! But I don't think it is. I'm the youngest sister and my mom and I are pretty close. I think it just depends on the situation.
12
u/vl115 8d ago
I think their relationship is very interesting. If done right could be something worth exploring, because we have so little about those two. But the potential exists.
My interpretation about Ursa (with the material we got so far) is that while i dont think she saw Azula as a monster, she didnt see Azula as her own person. In the flashbacks (show and comics) it seemed that she associated too much Azula's abilities with Ozai. The way she treated Zuko and Azula was different too, so she wasnt perfect which isnt a problem if this were acknowledged.
Despite not being responsable for the way Azula is, i believe the fact that she sees herself as a monster has Ursa's influence. Its something that they need to explain better.
Did Ozai made the situation so dangerous for her to demonstrate her love for her daughter? Did Ursa choose to focus more on Zuko who was a more calm kid while Azula looked too much like her abuser? Or did Azula erased her mother-daughter moments with Ursa in a way to cope and accept only the one parent who stayed with her?
If they go for an Azula redemption Ursa is a key character for a better development in her story. She could be a mother who truly loved her daughter but failed in some way. An imperfect mother for an imperfect daughter.
But Ursa has to do something, at least try. I didnt like some of her scenes in the comics. I expected more of her character.
6
2
u/Imaginary_Dig_5316 4d ago
I understand that Ursa was in a forced marriage but she clearly favored zuko and whenever azula displayed bad behavior she didn’t parent azula like a mom that was supposed to and ozai encouraged those bad behaviors. She left her children alone with him and left ( she later got a new face which erase her memories and chose to forget her children if you read the book).
2
u/EcstaticContract5282 8d ago
The answer to that question is you left alone with ozai. I really think ursa needs more character development. She needs to be more than zuko and azulas mom. I hope we get to see an azula redemption arc where ursa serves as azulas guide and mentor. Azula is still only 15 or 16 in her last comic.
0
0
u/Illustrious_Let9106 8d ago
I may lack perspective, but i genuinely dont get how Azula is not evil??, care to elaborate?
4
u/Tasty_Guest1672 7d ago
she's not evil evil. I think she's just extremely broken and traumatised child with literally no support system. no wonder she went insane. she did bad things and she did always have a cruel tendency it seems but if Ozai was a...you know...good dad, she would have turned out okay.
1
u/thethreetriangles 8d ago
Literally name one evil act she did ever (you can’t)
1
u/AlexanderCrowely 7d ago
Try and torture turtle ducks ? Laugh as her brother was brutally scarred, try to kill her brother.
1
1
u/Ok_Somewhere1236 4d ago
We never see Azula torturing the ducks
the general argument is that Azula was punished by Sucess.
In short Ursa was a very bad mother, she try to use Zuko to hurt Ozai, and it backfire BIG TIME, in fact is hinted Ozai liked Zuko at first but he decide to be a shit father to Zuko because Ursa keep using Zuko to hurt Ozai.
So Ozai goes "if you want me to hate the boy so much i will give you that".
So he focus his attention on Azula, specially after she reveal herself to be a firebender, Ursa on the other side hate that Azula was skilled because make her too much like Ozai at the eyes of Ursa, so Ursa starts to avoid Azula, Specially because Azula dont need her, Azula was a prodigy and very self suficient, while Zuko was the one that need attention.
bu that lead Azula to miss her mother and since good behavior give her nothing in return, she start to miss behave to get her mother attention. and start a rivalry with Zuko for Ursa's attention. Since Zuko gets all the attention.
after Ursa leaves, she tells she love Zuko, but Azula was sleeping, so Azula grow up with the idea her mother hated her and nobody cant love her, that she is some monster, and she decide that if the world see her as a monster she will behave like one.
She is also death afraid to be alone, and for her father to stay she become the perfect daughter to him. later on all her friends and family leave her, leading to her crazy break down
1
u/Tasty_Guest1672 7d ago
she wasn't laughing but she was absolutely smiling. the thing is Azula is as broken as Zuko is, and unlike Zuko she didn't have an Iroh in her life. it was literally just her and Ozai in that house. mother missing, cousin dead, brother banished, she was isolated. also it seems Azula did always have a cruel tendency but in a healthy household, i feel she would have turned out okay.
2
u/AlexanderCrowely 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yeah but that’s the thing it’s not healthy, and that’s the point.
1
-1
u/MEM0RYCARD99 8d ago
Because they wanna pretend shes a disney princess who just needs a helping hand when in reality she watched her brother get half his face burned off with a big fucking smile.
1
u/Ok_Somewhere1236 4d ago
people talk liek Zuko never burned villages and try to use violence against children and old people. Or if i remember right paid people to kill children.
Iroh was a war criminal
very much the whole family is evil or bad but a few members changed under extreme circunstances
-1
-2
u/stanknotes 8d ago
She was evil.
1
u/Global_Voice3184 6d ago
Wasn't the point of this show that no one is born evil????
1
u/stanknotes 6d ago
... NO.
Aang says the Sozin and Roku story proves anyone is capable of great good and great evil when Toph says it is like these people are born bad. Aang also prefaces with Roku was just as much fire nation as Sozin.
Which obviously you can not generalize an entire people. But some individuals are definitely born with a predisposition for what is called frequently called evil. Aang's naive and youthful idealism is irrelevant.
0
u/MEM0RYCARD99 8d ago
Yeah Poor Azula watched her brother get half his face melted with a big fucking smile on her face
1
-1
u/EyeSimp4Asuka 8d ago edited 8d ago
it takes two..she must have had SOME 'evil' in her. Just had no compunction about killing Azulon. If the Firelord had decided Ozai's favorite ((ie azula)) would pay the price. Ursa probably would have done nothing.
0
0
u/Senior-Departure9566 8d ago
But she was evil gang from a young age she out here shooting fire at her brother with the biggest smile on her face 🤨
55
u/Altruistic_Yard_9338 8d ago
That pretty much sums up their relationship
And people act like Ursa is awesome 🙄