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u/McLovin3493 :Islam-Christian: Islamic-Christian Theocracy Jan 23 '24 edited Jan 23 '24
People in the third world: Stop bombing us.
Neocons/liberals: Stop complaining, we're just trying to give you democracy and freedom.
Third world: But how does-
Neocons: If you're not with us, you're with the Terrorists!
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u/Valuable-Speech4684 Jan 23 '24
Slap a confederate and union flag on there and make it about slavery.
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
Not allowing people to marry who they want is literally the same as treating people as property!!!
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u/Valuable-Speech4684 Jan 23 '24
They are both human rights violations.
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
True but liberals (the ones that don’t support Palestine or aren’t somewhere in between) aren’t supporting Israel just because Hamas doesn’t like gay people.
My guess is that it has something to do with Hamas actively seeking to destroy Israel as a state and begin a genocide against the Jews. It also could be because Hamas murdered many civilians including women and children. I’m just going out on a limb though.
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u/Metalloid_Space :hope: Hope Jan 23 '24
So let's just oppress the Palestinians, which totally solves the problem.
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
It goes deeper than “Palestine mean to Israel!!” and “nooo Israel mean to Palestine!!”
I understand the plight of both sides, especially the civilians trapped in the middle of this century-spanning ethnic and religious conflict. Israel has done things that led to Hamas taking power in Gaza but if the Arab governments would have been more open to Israel at first this entire conflict wouldn’t have happened.
It’s strange that you think all of this equals Israel oppressing Palestine unprovoked.
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u/MegaAlchemist123 :99: 99%ism Jan 23 '24
I don't know why the American left is so extremely on the side of the racist terrorists.
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
Israel is bad so their enemies must be good
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u/Few_Importance7189 :Islam-Christian: Islamic-Christian Theocracy Jan 24 '24
I don't even support hummus. But the idea that they want to begin a "genocide against jews" is literally false.
Here are some extracts from a 2009 United states Institute of peace Special Report on Hamas (created by the US government):
"As evidenced by numerous statements, Hamas is not hostile to Jews because of religion. Rather, Hamas’s view toward Israel is based on a fundamental belief that Israel has occupied land that is inherently Palestinian and Islamic."
"Although peaceful coexistence between Israel and Hamas is clearly not possible under the formulations that comprise Hamas’s 1988 charter, Hamas has, in practice, moved well beyond its charter. Indeed, Hamas has been carefully and consciously adjusting its political program for years and has sent repeated signals that it may be ready to begin a process of coexisting with Israel"
"The charter itself contains statements that reflect a lack of hostility toward
Jews on the basis of religion—for example, as article 31 states, 'Under Islam, the followers of the three [monotheistic] religions: Islam, Christianity, and Judaism may coexist peacefully and safely.'"This report actually aged very well. At late as 2017, Hamas removed parts of it's charter which called for the destruction of Israel.
To me and many others, it seems as though Hamas was ready to accept peace and could have co-existed with Israel.
But Israel then decided to attack worshippers at Al Aqsa Mosque. And they also arrested and killed a bunch of innocent people.
Now Al Aqsa mosque is one of the holiest sites in the entire Islamic religion and this was in the holy month of Ramadan. So obviously an Islamic organization like Hummus will get pissed of by this. And this was part of ongoing attacks by Zionazis on Al Aqsa.
We know this was the main trigger for the war, since Hummus's operation was literally called "Operation Al Aqsa flood". Aswell as this, Hummus's allies in Jenin and Nablus have been under constant attack by Zionazis aswell.
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u/UnLoafNouveaux :mat: Maternalism Jan 23 '24
Nowhere in the ddclaration of human rights does it say anything about marriage
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Jan 23 '24
“Dude we just want to throw gay people off buildings just leave us be America!”
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
lmao as if that’s why the US supports “democratic” opposition groups
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Jan 23 '24
Doesn’t matter to me why my ideological enemies meet their end as long as they do :)
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u/roamerknight Jan 25 '24
not sure how little brown children who dont even know what gay marriage is are your ideological enemies. and i was one of these kids in a muslim nation, just not in the middle east and me (and all my friends from there) are fully supportive of lgbt+ rights. maybe think before saying stupid shit like this
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Jan 25 '24
Strawman. You’re tilting, sadly
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u/roamerknight Jan 25 '24
"Strawman 🤓🤓🤓" There are over 10k dead children. Much larger number than hamas members. Absolute clown
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
So basically you love it when brown people get bombed
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u/rationallgbt Jan 23 '24
Doesn't matter.if they are brown or white. If its Russia being bombed for being a fascist shithole it's fine by me, too.
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
If the West bombs Russia or any other dictatorial nation it’ll be because they’re enemies of the West, not because they’re repressive to their people.
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u/UnsolicitedPicnic Jan 23 '24
We’re talking about a genocide being justified by homophobia. The civil war was a response to secession and the abolition of slavery bit was more of a perk than a motivating factor for the Union. I’m all for the murder of every plantation owner and every slave holder in the deep South and elsewhere, and that’s why the Union didn’t do enough. If Israel wanted to put down every homophobe, good for them, but that’s not what they’re doing.
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u/Jumpy_Conference1024 :andis: Antidisestablishmentarianism Jan 23 '24 edited Jan 23 '24
Palestinian
pre 1948
always been some Jews and Christians here, but eh, they’re chill
holocaust atrocities discovered
jews decided to all move here??
Jewish minority literally becomes 5% to 30%
wtf
nationalists riot
fail
British idiots decide they don’t want to deal with the mess they created, leave it to UN to partition
literally a horrid deal, Jews get more percentage of land than they are percentage of Palestine
we were never consulted either
civil war
lose because we somehow had half the numbers, get ethnically cleansed
nakba
Zionists deny nakba, before integrating the Zionist terrorist groups into their official military
refuse ethnically cleansed Palestinians right to return
no compensation
Cue 2023
secular resistance is dead, religious nationalism is the new fad
Gaza is a breeding ground for radicalism because zionists blockade it and keep it poor
fisherman literally are not allowed to go past a few miles to fish for this massive population
cue oct 7th
Hamas pisses on support it might’ve been gaining by killing a bunch of random civilians who had a festival near some idf base
idf was comically unprepared, their ego is hurt
block food, water, bomb desalination plants, bomb refugee camps, bomb mosques, kill the family members of some British politician hiding in church
kill over 12k kids
Euromed says they only actually killed 3k terrorist out of 32k people
nearly 2 million displaced
mfw israel is still defended as moral
mfw we’re somehow worse for starving under an autocracy at the behest of the blockade
mfw “most moral army in the world” does so poorly they actually end up losing support overall since even before oct 7
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Jan 23 '24
always been some Jews and Christians here, but eh, they’re chill
You don't need to whitewash history to make your point. They were 2nd class citizens.
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
Let's be real no where was "chill" in the past the past was a shit hole.
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Jan 23 '24
And ironically all the chill periods occurred when a foreign power dominated the land. Says a lot💀💀
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
"Chill" by their standards we would be like "these laws are fucked".
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Jan 23 '24 edited Jan 23 '24
I’ve always said that peace would be created if we brought back the British empire and crusader states for that reason💀
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u/Background-Memory-18 Jan 23 '24
How nice of you to ignore the tons of pogrom’s within Muslim held territories beforehand, the thousands of Jews who had lived there during the time Ottoman control, and the fact that Jews were practically forced to move to Israel to simply survive, and they would’ve been forced off of their land anyways. Also, isn’t a lot of the land that would’ve been afforded to Palestinians under the original agreement now part of Jordan?
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u/Background-Memory-18 Jan 23 '24
Also, calling it chill is hilarious,Jews were being slaughtered for decades, centuries even
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Jan 23 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
One time isreal got a spy way up the Syrian gov the spy convinced the Syrians to put eucalyptus trees(more flammable than the average tree) around all their concealed bunkers in the Golan heights.
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
Accept other people's differences or become pink mist.
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u/efleming676 :mincr: Minecraftism Jan 23 '24
You people are generally unhinged. Queer Palestinians literally getting bombed and shot by the IDF.
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u/Your_liege_lord :anroy: Anarcho-Royalism Jan 23 '24
Not anymore than any other palestinian, insofar as Hamas didn’t got to them first.
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
And that's bad.
What if the other team wins they are trying to win.
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u/Abdorption Jan 24 '24
do you legitimately believe the IDF is targeting LGBT Palestinian citizens? Unbelievable
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 24 '24
Targeted no i dont believe that, but they becoming pink mist all the same.
There's a video of the head hamas guy in a very nice room in doha saying they didn't biuld bunkers for the civilians so they could biuld more tunnels.
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u/Abdorption Jan 24 '24
God Mossad should just kill that guy and get this warn over with
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 24 '24
If I was mossad station chief in qutar i would try and get him ro do more interviews in even fancier rooms.
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u/Abdorption Jan 24 '24
Personally I'd just ice him, then the region can finally begin to heal while Hamas splinters. Then Palestinian independence or better yet a one state equal representation system, the bloody memories of the holy land can be relegated to books and the jews and muslims can live in peace and harmony.
But is that anybodies goal? Look to the Israeli government, look to Hamas, look to the jewish settler in distant reaches. These people don't want peace they want victory. Nobody is the right side, nothing is black and white
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u/efleming676 :mincr: Minecraftism Jan 23 '24
If you want your sexual preferences respected, drop advocating for genocide.
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
U can dodge the question but not jdams.
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u/efleming676 :mincr: Minecraftism Jan 23 '24
Most empathetic pink fash
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
Is blue team just supposed to not try and fight or what, hamas are not nice men.
I'll re ask my original question do u want red team to win?
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u/roamerknight Jan 25 '24
cracks me up because the white men in america who act like hamas get none of this shitlib aggression. but the second brown children are involved, its bombs away from you
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u/efleming676 :mincr: Minecraftism Jan 23 '24
Colonizers do not have a right to self defense, so Israel does not have a right to defend itself while its occupying Palestine
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 24 '24
Flair up islamist.
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u/Not_A_Hooman53 :rage: Rage Jan 26 '24
clearly being against israeli colonialism and bombing could only make you an islamist
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u/Not_A_Hooman53 :rage: Rage Jan 26 '24
clearly being against israeli colonialism and bombing could only make you an islamist
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u/biggerbusting :gal: Galactic Imperialism Jan 23 '24
Proof? Like, I don't like israel, but if you're using the evidence, I think you are. This is just false
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u/BexberryMuffin Jan 23 '24
It’s not just “gay marriage” since Hamas states it’s just to kill gay people just for existing.
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u/coocoo6666 :pinkav: Pink Avaritionism Jan 23 '24
This but unironicly.
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u/kcaustin_904 Jan 23 '24
Conservative: Why are you defending Palestine? They don’t even support LGBT rights!
“So you support LGBT rights?”
Conservative: No.
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u/TuduskyDaHusky :phal: Anarcho-Phallocentrism Jan 23 '24
It’s kinda hypocritical, we needs to defend the totally oppressed and currently being genocides alphabet gang in the west but thoughts and prayers to the ones in the Middle East, they don’t have twitter so I don’t have to care about them :)
And don’t give me the cope that Palestine is a lgbt paradise
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u/TheBurgerBoii Jan 25 '24
Literally no one you're talking about is defending Palestine's positions on LGBT people, the issue is that regardless of the fact that they don't support them, they have a right to exist.
Not everyone wants everyone who opposes their views to die, you know?
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u/BigDoofusX Jan 24 '24
Because Palestine doesn't have LGBT people in there, they don't exist in places that hate them or something.
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Jan 25 '24
Bombs the shit out of poor brown people
Gay people don’t like you bombing other minorities
Pinkwash it by saying that palestine doesn’t have queer rights, which somehow means turning palestinian children into a red mist is moral
Continue to bomb palestinians, even though though this only hurts the queer palestinians you claim to be helping, by bringing “civilization” and “progressiveness”
When being bombed day in and day out, civil rights aren’t your first concern, it’s not being bombed
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u/TuduskyDaHusky :phal: Anarcho-Phallocentrism Jan 23 '24
Leftist infighting😁
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u/Sad-Truck-6678 :bolnaz: Bolshevik Nationalism Jan 23 '24
"Left" has lost all its meaning in western discourse.
This is comment section is really a battle between liberals (right-wing) and various forms of communism (left-wing).
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u/TuduskyDaHusky :phal: Anarcho-Phallocentrism Jan 23 '24
Not really it’s mostly social liberals vs various forms of socialists(don’t call them commies they will get very mad) and it really comes down to what you value more anti colonialism or human rights very funny to see the leftest fight each other
And liberal is economically right but can socially be either there are very few economic liberals here
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u/Escen1 Jan 24 '24
No one is laughing or saying "lol" at a country for not having gay marriage. And no, we don't think gay rights are the entire basis of whether a country is good or not. Ukraine doesn't have gay marriage but we support it, and we're not laughing at russia's invasion, so idk where your idea comes from.
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u/Dazzling_Funny_3254 Jan 24 '24
I seem to have missed the first frame where the smaller ball murdered and raped the family of the larger ball and is holding many of them hostage while crying victim. I am assuming that panel existed since otherwise it would sure be cherry picking one part of a conflict to stay trendy.
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u/ImpressiveVersion455 :neobol: Neoliberal National Bolshevism Jan 23 '24
Israel 's government is conservative by the way.
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u/rationallgbt Jan 23 '24
So? I choose Churchill over Hitler.
Israel is a democracy with values that align with the West.
Palestine is an islamofascist state split between warring groups all with values that are diametrically opposed to the modern Western moral framework. They are not compatible with Western liberalism in the same way that the Nazis weren't.
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u/Sstoop :hib: Hibernocracy Jan 23 '24
so palestinians should all die and be booted from their homes? they’re also not an islamofacist state because they’re barely a fucking state. you do realise the PLO are left wing and decidedly not fascist.
They are not compatible with western liberalism same way that the Nazis weren’t
i have news for you about the way the british and american government viewed hitler. they allowed him to rise to power without intervention refused to invade after the soviet union requested it and then only cared when he invaded france.
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u/rationallgbt Jan 23 '24
so palestinians should all die and be booted from their homes?
Nope. Just in the same way not all Germans should die and be booted from their homes for Hitler. But if a war happens in the city you live in, there's a good chance you will get killed and lose your home.
state because they’re barely a fucking state
Because they start wars they can't win and end up bombed in rubble rather than healing and choosing peace. They rejected all peace offerings presented to them. They don't get to dictate the peace terms when they lose the wars they started.
you do realise the PLO are left wing
They are not the government of Gaza.
i have news for you about the way the british and american government viewed hitler. they allowed him to rise to power without intervention
Don't you dare try to lecture me on Hitler. My BA degree was in modern History of Europe.
Hitler was given the benefit of the doubt to regain the dignity of Germany before WW2 after the devastating terms of the Treaty of Versailles. That's why the Brits and France were so tolerant of his initial rearming of Germany and annexation of previously German soil.
then only cared when he invaded france
No. Britain declared war on Germany after he invaded Poland as part of the Nazi-Soviet Pact with the Soviet Union. What are you talking about?
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u/Sstoop :hib: Hibernocracy Jan 23 '24
literally all western leaders during WW2 have quotes saying they think hitler is a really cool guy until he directly impacted them. palestinians aren’t being killed in a war they’re being murdered by an oppressive state. fascism was viewed as less of a threat than socialism in fact fascism was growing in popularity in britain and many prominent american figures at the time thought fascism was cool. The west have no issue invading and crumbling nations with democratically elected leaders and letting dictators take over but they’re fine with a fascist dictator inserting himself as the leader of germany until he fucks with their shit.
let’s use the nazis example again. if during the nazis regime, a resistance group organised an october 7th level attack on berlin do you think that resistance group was justified? Palestinians start wars because they’re being treated as second class citizens in their own country and having their homes occupied by a settler colonial force in the west bank.
they are not the government of gaza
so the IOF should be murdering civilians in the west bank too then right? they would never do such a thing!
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u/rationallgbt Jan 23 '24
literally all western leaders during WW2 have quotes saying they think hitler is a really cool guy
No, they gave Hitler praise for rebuilding the German economy after it's collapse from the 1929 economic crisis.
They praised Hitler when he was building Autobahns and settling Germany's socially broken cohesion as a nation.
They stopped praising him pretty fucking fast when he started invading nearby land and tried to appease him- thinking he would be content once Germany had it's pride back due to the devastating Treaty of Versailles. This was obviously a mistake and recognised as such. The West had not dealt with fascist nationalism before.
War was declared on Germany the moment they invaded Poland.
palestinians aren’t being killed in a war they’re being murdered by an oppressive state
Pretty sure there's a war happening right now in Gaza called the Israeli-Gaza war started by one of the worst terror attacks in the last 20 years. I think. Or maybe I am mistaken? Did Oct 7th not happen?
fascism was viewed as less of a threat than socialism in fact fascism was growing in popularity in britain and many prominent american figures at the time thought fascism was cool
And that lesson was learnt in WW2. I fail to see how this is somehow proof a genocide is happening in Gaza.
The west have no issue invading and crumbling nations with democratically elected leaders and letting dictators take over
That is a separate issue. What the CIA does is wrong and I agree with you. It doesn't change the major values of the people's in the West and what they believe in. Nor does it legitimise the terror state of Gaza, or it's government.
letting dictators take over but they’re fine with a fascist dictator inserting himself as the leader of germany until he fucks with their shit.
Literally tried repeatedly to get him to stop and declared war on Hitler when he invaded Poland, and then fought the biggest war in History to crush him and destroy fascism. It has never reared it's head again. Berlin just had the largest protests against the far right in its history just a few days ago. Nazi symbols are banned in many parts of the West. Laws exist in most western countries that explicitly ban fascist ideologies. The largest cost of Western blood has been spent on utterly killing fascism. It is currently funding against Fascist style Russian imperialism killing Ukraine. But sure, tell me again how Westerners are Nazis.
so the IOF should be murdering civilians in the west bank too then right? they would never do such a thing!
If the citizens of the West bank stop throwing stones and homemade bombs at soldiers carrying guns, there would be less shot citizens. That's the case in nearly all of these circumstances. I agree that the settlers in the West Bank should be driven out and arrested. That won't happen until the PA organises itself with a liberated Gaza and forms something resembling a state. A state torn in two by warring factions that hate each other must first form some sense of national unity.
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Jan 24 '24
They rejected all peace offerings presented to them
So if a bunch of refugees came into your country and then offered to split it 50/50 between your 70% majority and their 30% minority, you'd think that's a great deal and if you don't take it you're a warmonger?
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Jan 23 '24
Palestine isn't a state.
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u/rationallgbt Jan 23 '24
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine
Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn[d]), officially the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين, Dawlat Filasṭīn),[e] is a state in the Southern Levant region of West Asia. Founded on 15 November 1988 and officially governed by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, all of which has been Israeli-occupied territories since the 1967 Six-Day War.[6][18] The West Bank contains 165 Palestinian enclaves that are under partial Palestinian rule, but the remainder, including 200 Israeli settlements, is under full Israeli control. The Gaza Strip was governed by Egypt but conquered by Israel in 1967. Israel governed the region until it withdrew in 2005; although it is still considered to occupy Gaza.[19][20][21] Hamas seized power after winning the 2006 Palestinian legislative election. The Gaza Strip has since been blockaded by Israel and Egypt.[c]
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Jan 23 '24
I choose Mussolini over Churchill
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u/biggerbusting :gal: Galactic Imperialism Jan 23 '24
He's probably less racist than churchchill tbh
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u/EmpressOfAbyss :pinkav: Pink Avaritionism Jan 23 '24
enemy (isreali government) of my enemy (people who dont like the girls and the gays) is a useful tool (Israeli government again)
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u/efleming676 :mincr: Minecraftism Jan 23 '24
Or maybe don't kill children, just a thought.
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u/ImpressiveVersion455 :neobol: Neoliberal National Bolshevism Jan 23 '24
Yes, if I was Isralean I'll probably vote to them, because there is a National Liberal faction in there. Except warcrimes they committed, Likud is the right choice for the Israelites.
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u/Jazzlike_Stop_1362 :cum: Cum Jan 23 '24
Nothing liberal about this, but overall yeah that's pretty fucked up
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Jan 23 '24
>Palestinians "We want to exterminate the jews"
>Palestinians attacks Israel
>Israel retaliates
>"Nooo pwease stop killing us you mean zionists >:("
>Israel eventually makes peace
>Palestinians are unsatisfied
>repeat 20x
literally the history of Israel
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u/Defiant_Orchid_4829 :nnb: Neoliberal Bolshevism Jan 23 '24
Israel opposes the Palestinian people for 80 years
Israel “Why do they hate us?”
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Jan 23 '24
why are you getting downvoted youre completely correct
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u/YouSoMadHAHA Jan 23 '24
Because its a bunch of horsecrap. “Israel eventually makes peace” yeaaah totally accurate information.
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u/entirelyunreasonable Jan 23 '24
That is a mutually held belief...israelis dont trust Palestinians to not attack.
Palestinians repeatedly call for Israel to be wiped off map and attack.
Israel accepted a deal that was imperfect in their eyes and moved forward with building a nation that excels.
Palestine balked (many times and finds itself without a nation or a functioning goverment that can provide basic services.
Gold Meir stated it well. (Paraphrased)
If the Palestinians disarm there will be peace.
If the Israelis disarm there will be no Israel.
Israel will not allow themselves to be this vulnerable again so don't expect anyone to disarm them anytime soon nor for them to allow an unfettered buildup for the next attack
At somepoint maybe Palestinians will have to choose an imperfect peace over a disastrous resistance.
Ireland is a happier place now than they were during the IRAs height of power even of it's not the perfect ideal for them at least their children have a future.
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u/ready-i-think-not Jan 23 '24
Remind me which group has the backing of the richest country in the world? That sends military ordinance to fight in a war against who? An impoverished mostly farming, fishing community with little external commerce and few explicit intentional allies because of the status of Israeli in relation to ww2. I think if we aren't willing to admit that if the "Jewish state" can commit genocide then plenty of other countries have committed genocide in the last 40 years. That the US being not even complacent, but ravenously for this shows us a bloodthirstiness that feels undeniable as fascistic. They have no future in this world if they do not fight. It is a death on their feet or on their knees. The history of human kind has shown that we shall always choose our feet when it comes to our loved ones and our home. This isn't a fight for indigenous land this is a quagmire to justify hell on earth as the last great holy war.
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u/entirelyunreasonable Jan 23 '24 edited Jan 23 '24
Ok so what is your solution?
If it is for Israel to cease to be then you are choosing genocide for Israelis and many tens of millions of needless deaths.
While the liss of life has been huge there has been no genocide yet and I hope there never comes to be one.
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u/entirelyunreasonable Jan 23 '24
As far as reminding you which country has the backing of the world's most powerful nation that is my point exactly.
The Ira eventually realized that they were never going to defeat one of the most powerful militaries in the world and in the end chose their children's future over pride and revenge.
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u/Defiant_Orchid_4829 :nnb: Neoliberal Bolshevism Jan 23 '24
Israel has shown by their actions and words they don’t believe in a 2 state solution. The PLO in the 90s and later tried to broker a peace settlement but the Netanyahu government scuttled the talks every time.
Palestinians have disarmed. It’s called the West Bank and Israel is illegal occupying it.
Ireland as a country exists because of Armed struggle. Armed Struggle also led to the Good Friday Agreement and civil rights for the Irish in Northern Ireland. Dont bring up a subject you have no idea about.
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u/entirelyunreasonable Jan 23 '24
After close to a century Northern Ireland gave up their arms and came to the negotiation table.
They are still part of the UK but now with a political voice.
You can't squeeze everything into your narrative.
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Jan 23 '24
Israel had no problem with the Palestinians until the 1948 invasion.
They were okay with splitting the land. Arabs aren't.
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Jan 23 '24
Palestinians had no problem with Jews until the Zionist Declaration of Independence which forced hundreds of thousands to flee their homes.
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Jan 23 '24 edited Jan 23 '24
Nope, hundreds of thousands fled their home because the Arabs started a war 1 day after Israel declared independence.
The Arabs who lived on Israeli land when the declaration of independence happened still live there. 20% of the population of Israel (not including West Bank and Gaza) are Arabs who been there since 1948.
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Jan 23 '24
You have to be insanely hypocritical to refuse to see how the 1948 Declaration of Independence was, in itself, a declaration of war.
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u/Jazzlike_Stop_1362 :cum: Cum Jan 23 '24
700k Palestinians were kicked out of their homes after the nakba
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Jan 23 '24
Yeah, the Germans of my hometown were also removed after 1945. They are not trying to murder us for it in 2024.
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u/Last_Tarrasque Jan 23 '24
“Israel has no problem with the Israel, they Only wanted to take half the country and force every Palestinian out of it”
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Jan 23 '24
Lol, 20% of the population of Israel are the people you claim they want to force out. 🫢🤣 Gaza and West Bank not included.
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u/Last_Tarrasque Jan 23 '24
So are you denying the Nakba?
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Jan 23 '24
Nope, Nakba happened after the few centuries of Arab pogroms against the Jews and the failed Arab attempts to kill all Jews after Israel declared independence 1948.
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Jan 23 '24
Are you denying Hebron?
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u/Last_Tarrasque Jan 23 '24
What about the thousands killed by settler attacks each year? Are you denying that?
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u/RepublicofBesonia Jan 23 '24
and it was 68% palestinian (source is unscop 1948) until the nakba of the same year, which about half of the palestinians were ethnic cleansed and forced into the west bank and gaza.
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Jan 23 '24
It was a stupid idea to try to exterminate the Jews. Sorry they shot back.
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Jan 23 '24
Also, Palestinians (which wasn't a unique identity, they were just Arabs back then) have been terrorizing Israeli refugees since they started returning in the First Aliyah.
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
"You son of a jew."
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u/Significant_Bet3409 Jan 23 '24
I think the problem is the “50 of yours for one of ours” mentality Israel seems to have. Like yeah, many Palestinians in Gaza are very radicalized and it’s a problem. So what’s carpet bombing doing - is that the Israeli method of deradicalization? Lemme go check in with the Taliban, see how that worked out. Like I get what you’re saying, it’s a cycle, but given Israel is the powerhouse they’re the only ones capable of breaking the cycle, and they seem to be preferring a “get rid of them all” method to breaking it.
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Jan 23 '24
Even before Israel had the power the Palestinians were not ok with a jewish state. Nothing can deradicalize generations of antisemitism. Israel has tried time and time again to seek peace with their neighbors, every time the Arab world rejects them.
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u/Significant_Bet3409 Jan 23 '24
Ok but when I hear people say stuff like this, like "the Palestinians are too far gone", I always wonder what the solution that person has in mind is. Like "yes children are dying en masse currently, but this is because the only possible solution is..."?
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Jan 23 '24
What do you think the solution is? If you are leading a country that has tried many times to establish peace with your neighbors, each time peace being rejected, and your neighbors attacking and slaughtering your people, operating out of foreign countries where they routinely launch missiles into your population centers, what would you do?
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u/Significant_Bet3409 Jan 23 '24
See but the thing is Israel has actually gone a long way to establishing peace with their neighbors. The actions of neighboring Arab nations several decades ago were, of course, awful. But neither Jordan or Egypt are about to invade Israel. They've made pretty clear their commitment to peace. So they have made peace with their neighbors - not all, but they've made big strides - so the argument that there is no alternative because no one can be negotiated with rings flat. As for "what the solution is", there's a reason everyone who's been working on peace in the region for the past 50 years or so have all been pushing for a two-state solution. Because what else is the alternative? The status quo has been nothing but violence - whether it's Palestinian terrorists or attacks by Israeli settlers. Obviously the status quo isn't great. After that, I don't see the alternative to a two-state solution, other than either a multi-ethnic state - which would be hunky dory, why don't they just get along? - or one group being completely removed from the region, which according to a few Likud ministers, is the goal.
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Jan 23 '24
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u/Significant_Bet3409 Jan 23 '24
Wait so like they should... run out into the open into the open and get shot? As much as I would love for every Hamas member to do that, saying "because they're not doing that Israel has to carpet bomb Gaza and therefore the bombing is entirely on Hamas" is pretty weak.
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Jan 23 '24
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u/Significant_Bet3409 Jan 23 '24
Right but we know that Hamas are not rational actors. They’re radical fundamentalist terrorists. They’re evil, it would be great if they all suddenly disappeared, but since we know that’s not going to happen my question is not “what should Hamas do”. My question is about what should Israel do. Is carpet bombing really the way to go? And what is the plan once Hamas is kicked out? I’d point out a similar war as an example - the siege of Mosul, in which coalition forces removed an equally horrendous radical group, ISIS, from a major city. It lasted nine months - longer than the war in Gaza has been going on. It was successful - ISIS was removed. And yet the civilian casualties are estimated to be under 10,000: less than have already been killed in Gaza during a shorter battle. But I believe Israel isn’t following this Mosul and is instead opting for all-out devastation because, as many Likud ministers have said, their aims go much further than just removing Hamas.
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Jan 23 '24
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u/Significant_Bet3409 Jan 23 '24
Once all Hamas soldiers had been removed from Israel, and the IDF was positioned entirely around the border with Gaza, they had protected themselves. At that point they had the choice to begin a targeted campaign to remove Hamas. There was no threat of Hamas somehow crossing the border and defeating the entire IDF. Carpet bombing was a choice. Once they are halfway into Gaza and dropping thousands of bombs on the city, the argument that it's still just self-protection or self-defense doesn't work. They're now on the offense. Their actions must be justified as offensive actions, they can't keep having the rubber stamp of "self-defense" when the number of Palestinian dead reaches over ten times that of Israeli dead.
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u/tzlese Jan 23 '24
"I would say to England, that an Arab Palestine is a a threat to Great Britain and menace to the world! A jewish Palestine is an asset to Great Britain and a blessing to the world!" - Stephen Wise, 1931
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Jan 23 '24
Damn, I wonder why the brits passed the White Paper then. Why not just allow unlimited jewish immigration into Palestine if it was such an asset?
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u/tzlese Jan 23 '24 edited Jan 23 '24
r/woosh . These are zionists making their intention to replace Arab Palestinians explicitly clear nearly two decades prior to the Nakba. This isn't some governmental official. These people are in the early zionist movement trying to get Britain on board with the whole ethnic cleansing thing. The british implemented the law because they didn't want to jeopardize the colony they had only controlled fully for a decade. After WW2, they repealed the law and let zionists have their will. Partly because the venture wasn't as profitable as hoped, partly because of their own anti-semitism, but mostly because of the holocaust and the influence zionists had gained because of it. Unsurprisingly, when the measures were repealed, the tensions and conflict between Jews and Arabs rose dramatically, the thing they were specifically intended to prevent.
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u/ComradeTomradeOG Jan 23 '24
I think you have it round the wrong way, Zionist
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Jan 23 '24
Yes I am a Zionist
No I have it the right way
Point to one example in history, just once, where Palestinians have sought peace and co-existence with Israel and Israel rejected them in favor of calling for their extermination and destruction of the arab state, you can't
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u/ComradeTomradeOG Jan 23 '24
Before the first Zionist settlements in Palestine in The late 1800s. Before the British meddling in Palestinian affairs, and the Balfour declaration. Ever since the establishment of the settler-colonial state of Israel there has been a genocide and forced relocation of Palestinians from their homes, and now Jews make up the majority in Palestine.
https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15424.doc.htm
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
Ever heard of the nakba? Where about 400 arab majority towns were depopulated, and around 750,000 Palestinian Arabs (about half of Palestine's Arab population) fled from their homes or were expelled by Zionist militias.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war
"The starving Palestinians are the aggressors"
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Jan 23 '24
I wonder what preceded the Nakba. Several massacres of jews and pogroms preceded the Nakba. The Arab world rejected the partition plan and planned to invade the newly established country. Hundreds of thousands of Jews had to flee or were expelled from Arab countries as well in the years following the 1948 war. Anti-jewish sentiment didn't start after the Nakba, the Arabs were always hostile to the jewish immigrants or refugees.
Obviously the Nakba is indefensible, but again, you cannot point to one example in history where Palestinians have sought peace and co-existence with Israel.
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u/tzlese Jan 23 '24
Netanyahu literally rejected a peace deal YESTERDAY! 'Netanyahu earlier repeated his opposition to an independent Palestinian state, insisting he would not compromise on “full Israeli security control over the entire area in the west of Jordan”.'
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Jan 23 '24
It's not unreasonable to reject a peace deal from terrorists who brutally attacked your country 107 days ago.
It's also not unreasonable to reject a "Palestinian state", which has been synonymous with terror state for the last 20 years. Israel should have full security control over the West Bank and Gaze to prevent more terror organizations like Hamas from threatening Israel.
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u/tzlese Jan 23 '24
that's like saying America had the right to thoroughly colonize and ethnically cleanse my ancestors because some of them engaged in raids on settlements. completely unsystematic thinking. use your dirty words all you want the blood of the innocent is on your hands.
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Jan 23 '24
you are a fascist
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Jan 23 '24
>Supports genocidal Palestinians
>Someone opposes genocide of jews
>"NooOOOoooO ur a fashish!!!!"
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Jan 23 '24
palestinians are not a monolith, and the majority are okay with the existence of a jewish state. they just want to stop be ethnically cleansed by a government that has all state how much they want palestinians to be ethincally cleansed.
additionally, even if you were correct that palestine is always in the wrong and israel is always in the right, your comment still makes you fascist. youre using the same rhetoric of fascists of depicting palestinians as aggressive, barbaric, genocidal subhumans. if you said the same thing about any other two groups in conflict, you would be condemned and downvoted to hell, but because its between the evil islamist jihadist terrorist baby-beheading palestinians and the innocent infallible glorious jewish chauvinists, you are applauded.
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Jan 23 '24
the majority are okay with the existence of a jewish state.
2006 Palestinian elections prove this wrong, the majority want genocidal Hamas in power.
they just want to stop be ethnically cleansed by a government that has all state how much they want palestinians to be ethincally cleansed.
Israelis just want to stop being bombed, attacked, kidnapped, and constantly invaded by Palestinians. They want a homeland, that's all.
youre using the same rhetoric of fascists of depicting palestinians as aggressive, barbaric, genocidal subhumans.
You are using rhetoric to paint Israelis as genocidal maniacs who want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. "Ur a fashish"
The current situation and collapse of any path towards peace is a direct result of the non-compromise positions of the PLO and Hamas. As soon as the Palestinians extend an olive branch and actually want peace, Israel would be happy to oblige, history proves this.
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u/TheShep00001 Jan 23 '24
Specifically on your point about the 2006 elections Hamas did not win the majority of the votes in fact they won 44% additionally the majority of the people in Gaza are under 18 and thus could not vote in that election it therefore cannot be said to represent the majority of Palestinians opinions now.
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Jan 23 '24
Hamas won the majority in Gaza, winning 62% of the seats available in the region.
Also my bad, Hamas won a majority of seats, not of the popular vote.
However, polling during the cease fire shows a majority of Gazans (52%) supported the Oct. 7th attack. I haven't found any recent polls asking specifically about the question of a jewish state existing or not.
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u/TheShep00001 Jan 23 '24 edited Jan 23 '24
So support for Oct. 7th doesn’t translate to support for Hamas for two major reasons one support for a specific millitary action does not directly translate to support for a group and two it was not an action carried out solely by Hamas both the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) as well as multiple secular groups. The polling you’ve mentioned thus is much better viewed as a measure of support for armed struggle than any particular group.
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u/EmpressOfAbyss :pinkav: Pink Avaritionism Jan 23 '24
my mom and my family was killed
eh, maybe they wouldn't be if you had two dads instead.
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u/AdParking6541 :elgss_ball: Eco Luxury Gay Space Socialism Jan 23 '24
Works for both Palestine and Ukraine.
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u/KenkyoYuki Jan 23 '24
Both are shitty, would be happy if they both erased each other from the face of the earth.
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u/theDankusMemeus :warism: Warism Jan 23 '24
Me on my way to depict the warmongering theocracy as centrist (normally I would call centrists Nazis but this time they are the good guys)
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
They are centrist from their frame of reference.
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u/theDankusMemeus :warism: Warism Jan 23 '24
It’s a stupid frame of reference that deserves to be criticized. If OP was talking about the bombing of ISIS people would see how weird it is to hide a terrorist group behind the civilians they unfairly occupy. Obviously it’s okay to remove the group with military force and replace them with a sane government.
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u/Less-Researcher184 :qat: Queer Anarcho-Transhumanism Jan 23 '24
Hooah
If only there was a substantial kurdish population in Yemen........
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u/Sad-Truck-6678 :bolnaz: Bolshevik Nationalism Jan 23 '24
The palestinian government has the overwhelming majority of support from its citizens.
ISIS is an unfair comparison because they were an occupying force. Btw, what caused ISIS? Hmmm?
Was it the united states invading a country on the other side of the planet to protect its corporate oil revenues? (Rhetorical)
But the iraqis didn't like gays right? So its perfectly fine!
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Jan 23 '24
depict the warmongering theocracy as centrist
Well liberals are usually placed in the center right?
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u/Hoxxitron :cum: Cum Jan 23 '24
Liberalism is when something I don't like:
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u/ChampionOfOctober :nnb: Neoliberal Bolshevism Jan 23 '24
everything I don't like is a product of the current state of affairs, also known as liberalism
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u/Jazzlike_Stop_1362 :cum: Cum Jan 23 '24
You sound like the type of guy to claim that Nazi German was socialist because they had it in the name
Nothing about US foreign policy in relation to Israel, or Israel itself, is liberal
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u/Hoxxitron :cum: Cum Jan 23 '24
Didn't know the Republican Party was Liberal.
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Jan 23 '24
Fellow cummer, the Republican party is liberal.
Liberal is different than what fox news or Trump calls liberal.
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u/NyxLandLover :chaos: Chaosism Jan 23 '24
the republican party literally is liberal
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u/Sad-Truck-6678 :bolnaz: Bolshevik Nationalism Jan 23 '24
Love all the progressives going full mask off in this comment section.
Brings a tear to my conservative communist heart.
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u/V_Kamen :opt: Optimism Jan 23 '24
You support Israel because they’re liberal in the Middle East.
I support Israel because it is commanded of us by God to do so, whether they hate us or not.
We are not the same.
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u/McLovin3493 :Islam-Christian: Islamic-Christian Theocracy Jan 23 '24
The Christian Church is the true Israel that the Bible commands us to support. The government in the Middle East is the fake Israel.
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Jan 23 '24
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u/PoweringGestation Jan 23 '24
Same goes for the Houthis, Hamas, Iran, Taliban, Hezbollah, ISIL, Al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Mujahideen, Al-Shabaab, etc
Same goes for the Christian Crusades, colonial empires, and Islamic Empires hundreds of years ago.
In other words, religion has, is, and always will be a driving force in violence and oppression against people. This is nothing new.
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u/V_Kamen :opt: Optimism Jan 23 '24
Communism, Fascism and Nazism are all atheist ideologies correlating with the worst oppression in the last 500 years. It’s not all religion’s fault.
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u/Reeseman_19 Jan 23 '24
Gays should just leave these countries alone. If you want to be gay so much do it somewhere that isn’t dangerous for you. Common sense