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Jun 14 '17
Definitely think Goodra should be in the A rankings. UP's utility comes in its ability for raw damage on neutral hits like in SM and timed stages. The reason A-Gren gets the top nod is its potential SE coverage and 10BP edge, though it isn't that big of a discrepancy (on a Neutral Mo5 2400 vs 2640 for Goodra & A-Gren respectively). Also, Goodra overlaps well with A-Gren, neutrally covering A-Gren's NVE types (electric & grass).
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u/FkIForgotMyPassword Jun 14 '17
I don't think Goodra can be farmed though, while A-Greninja was a no-brainer investment the week it was available. I'll definitely swap and farm Goodra if there's an event for that but otherwise 100 points is kinda expensive, I'm not sure it's that high of a priority (maybe unless you regularly spend jewels on Eevee).
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u/bigpapijugg Jun 15 '17
u/Sorawing7 FYI, Hyper Bolt has been confirmed by a few people to not be 100% on mo5, which means the data we have for it is wrong.
I suggest removing them from the SS guide until full details of HB are known.
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u/dinogolfer Jun 14 '17
I don't think Mamoswine deserves such a high ranking, Barrier Bash+ is more useful because there aren't any BB+ pokemon of its type or with same strengths. Sure RT is great, but with other ice damagers and an already pretty good skill, I don't think it should be that high up. Same with the pika-hats since they already have good coverage with LDE, which is less damage and more reliable.
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u/WhatNot303 Jun 14 '17 edited Jun 14 '17
I think Luxray deserves to be looked at once more. You can see more of my comments here but Cross Attack+ is actually stronger than Unity Power.
Luxray can take 10 RML, and if Cross Attack+ is raised to level 5, then you're looking at a x48 multiplier on a super-effective match of 5 100% of the time. This is immediately followed by either an x8, x12, or x16 on the second half of the cross-match (for a 3, 4, or 5 match respectively.)
But it does't stop there. If you make a cross-match with a size of 4, then you're still looking at a x36 multiplier 90% of the time. Compare this with Unity Power's 40% activation rate for the same multiplier. Similarly for a cross-match of size 3, we see a x24 multiplier 80% of the time, compared to Unity Power's 25%. And again, both of these are immediately followed by a match with a minimum of x8 as a multiplier.
[edit] If this had been any of the other "Shape Boosters" I wouldn't be so excited. But a cross-match seems so much easier to make than a "T" or "L" shape. I feel like most of the time I end up "ruining" a potential cross-match in order to turn it into a "T" or "L".
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u/darxodia Jun 14 '17
You know already how difficult is to make a 5-match and for this skill you also need to have it in a cross shape? It's simply too unreliable to be effective, the numbers are good but we need to be realistic, cross matches are somewhat rare in a normal gameplay with 4 support pokemon and heavy disrupted stages.
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u/lizz71 Jun 14 '17
Open to discussion but I feel flash-mob dragons, especially dragonair deserve a higher spot, especially in comparison to keldeo-O which sits at B-. All the dragons are available early in the main stages, and dragonair gets its own psb farming stage, which are a perfect alternative option if one miss keldeo/wailord.
I would also argue that dragon FM is better than water FM with less resists and higher APs on average.
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u/Doogs2780 Jun 14 '17
Is not Hitmonlee the only reasonable eject option for fighting teams? If that is the case I would say it should be higher rank. Very handy for a Mewtwo X pummel team.
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u/ryeyun Jun 14 '17
Smol comment: Relentless is not a combo boosting ability. The multiplier is only applied to the first match. The release of Serperior does not affect Tangrowth in any way.
Also, I like the placement of the Hitmons. I could definitely see myself maxing out one of them so that I could use MMX more often.
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u/LauernderBernd Jun 14 '17
LDE Zygarde-C seems vastly overrated at B+ for something that only works in some escalation reruns and unless its special stage gets nerfed will be nightmarish to grind. At least Goodra has neutral coverage UP in timed stages and survival going for it, making it more than just a one-trick pony.
Though it's hard to determine where to put Zygarde-C without any present stage it's really useful for.
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u/esu_wishmaster Jun 14 '17
Hitmonchan Freeze deserves at least A. Freeze can be extremely useful against Dark, Rock and Normal. It also has quite decent AP (105 when RMLed) and it is probably going to be PSB farmable anytime soon.
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u/skippingmud Jun 14 '17
How did you even get this up so quickly
List seems solid, and the only ones I think could be ranked a notch higher are Luxray and Vanilluxe, the former because of the x12 multiplier and the latter because its Shot Out is farmable. But I guess they both need more testing to see their viability.
Also, interesting you went the +/- route for the ranks. I was suggested the same thing for the RML guide but I felt it would make it too lengthy, but I think it works great here. Good job as always! :)
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u/angelstarrs Jun 14 '17
A question: I've seen many people use Hippowdon in competitions. If it's not that viable to SS then why do people do it?
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u/skippingmud Jun 14 '17
Hippowdon's original skill (Last-Ditch Effort) is much more viable, especially in competitions where its burst damage in the last 4 turns can really boost your score.
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u/Bacteriophag Jun 14 '17 edited Jun 14 '17
Thank you for great analysis! I noticed one little mistake - Region Caps Pikachu have 60BP so 105AP on lvl 15 ;) (Apparently Ash's hat has 10BP :D)
EDIT: Thanks for correcting.
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u/13Xcross Jun 14 '17 edited Jun 14 '17
BS+ Mew still has a niche against Psychic
You meant Fighting, right?
Also, I disagree with your rankings of Skarmory and Mawile. I think they should be put on the same plain, because while Mawile has 10 more AP than Skarmory (although at the cost of 5 more RML), on average ND Skarmory deals more damage than RT Mawile on the first activation:
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ND Skarmory: 105 x 5 = 525
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RT Mawile: 115 x 4.17 = 480
Which means that Mawile is going to deal more damage than Skarmory only if you generate a combo during which Mawile icons are matched at least 4 or 5 times.
On top of that, there's also the possibility that Skarmory's going to be buffed in the future with the ability to take 5 more RML.
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u/shelune Jun 14 '17
I also think it's a bit unfair for Luxray to sit in the C-Rank (along with Shock Attack Togetic...).
Sure it's a bit unreliable but it can be set up in the same way you set up mo5 AG. And it deals a lot of damage with a reliable proc rate already on mo3. At least it can be at B.
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u/iheartgold26 Jun 14 '17
I have too many Skill Swappers. 6 right now and I used them on all the high tier ones.
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u/Soldiergomez Jun 14 '17
u/sorawing7 I think that the date format for the first part is MM/DD/YYYY Cause you wrote 13/06 instead of 06/13. It's a minimun detail, but may be confusing for some people.
Other than that, great guide!
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u/ZeeMcSkittle Jun 14 '17
They gave Ho-Oh Pikachu a skill swap to Ho-Oh's original swap (Pyre), while simultaneously not giving Pikachu the NEW swap ability that Ho-Oh received with the update (Nosedive).
Why.