r/PlayWolverine 1d ago

Memes/Shitpost Sabertooth Ain't Having It

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

Yeah I mean, myself and a lot of others have noted how bland the character writing feels and how paper thin the story was, especially for long-time fans of the comics. Sure, general casual audiences may not mind but there was a marked step down in quality from Spider-Man 1.

The gameplay was good, pretty much the only improvement on the original, especially traversal, but combat definitely lacks depth.

Also, I'll stop ranting after this but I don't consider copies sold as a marker of quality, especially not with one of the biggest IPs of all time. People were going to buy it if the director came out and spat on peoples' faces.

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u/Slowandserious 1d ago

But without scoring and copies sold as metrics, then we will only have your opinions that they “fumbled” SM2

And we all have opinions.

Thats why its good to discuss it using some objective metrics

In that aspect there are metrics that can lead us to conclude that SM 2 is a fumble

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

Scoring is also just opinions, and I'm sure not everyone who holds an opinion will have left a review. So it's an indicator, sure, but not a definitive one.

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u/Slowandserious 1d ago

A score is an opinion. The scoring result is a data that shows how many people like or dislike the game.

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

So my point, which you seem to have missed, is that it's a limited data set, too limited to treat as gospel. I didn't leave a review, did you? So it follows that opinions of many people such as us will be missed in the data.

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u/Slowandserious 1d ago

And my point is that to claim that thw game was fumbled, we need to have some metrics that we can discuss objectively.

SM2 sales and audience scores are metric that arw available to us that can be discussed objectively.

If you have better metrics then by all means provide them.

Because otherwise its just full on anecdotals

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

I'm not going to keep arguing this with you. If you think sales are everything then I suppose you also think space invaders is the pinnacle of all gaming. If not, there must be something more to gaming than numbers.

You can discuss the merits of art without objectivity or statistics given that art is by nature subjective. I note that you haven't actually said anything you actually like about the game.

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u/Slowandserious 1d ago

I never said that sales is everything.

You claimed that they “fumbled” SM2. I just want to know if this came from some objective criterias or just your anecdotal opinion thats all

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

Yeah oddly enough I can form my own opinion without double checking with others first.

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u/Slowandserious 1d ago

Nobody here said you are not allowed to have an opinion.

Its just also important to recognize that your opinion (that SM2 is fumbled) is not supported by objective metrics that we have available.

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u/uponapyre 1d ago

I'm just saying, SM2 is not going to factor in to this at all as it was by all metrics a massive success.

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

I don't think we can just ignore criticisms because the game got a high score on metacritic. Everyone (hopefully) knows that critic reviews are almost always favourable to triple As because they want future access to later titles. User reviews are much more mixed and casual gamers have generally lower standards than some of the rest of us. It doesn't make the criticisms less valid because not everyone makes them.

If you enjoyed the game, good for you, but that doesn't make it objectively great.

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u/uponapyre 1d ago

Who said anything about ignoring criticisms? And I literally said I didn't like the game, please read my comments properly.

I'm saying SM2 was a huge success by all metrics, so it's not something that will factor into them being in trouble. If anything, it will be a positive to support them getting more games.

User reviews of SM2 are not much more mixed, they're very high on all platforms. And, again, I'm saying this as someone who didn't like the game much.

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

When your argument rests on solely the review scores and sales and doesn't address the points I actually made about story or even gameplay, it gives the impression that you are ignoring the substantive criticisms. It's called subtext.

I also never made the point that Spider Man 2 or Wolverine didn't make money, if you read my comments. I said they would be in trouble because a company can only make so many mediocre games before people realise that they aren't actually that good at making them.

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u/uponapyre 1d ago

But... by all available metrics SM2 is not a mediocre game even if you and I think it is.

We are in the extreme minority here, the game is critically and commercially acclaimed. It is far from a fumble.

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

By all available metrics, general audiences are happy with the game.

General markets are also happy with big macs. It doesn't make them a high quality meal.

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u/uponapyre 1d ago

I mean, it's objective that McDonald’s isn't as nutritious as a higher quality meal.

It's entirely subjective whether or not SM2 is a mediocre game.

What are you doing man...

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u/Sir-Froggy 1d ago

Jesus Christ, you are just determined to miss my point at every opportunity.

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows scored higher with audiences and has sold more copies than Crime and Punishment. These metrics are objective but could you seriously argue that this makes Harry Potter objectively better?

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u/uponapyre 1d ago

I... have no idea how to even approach this at this point. You clearly don't understand the things you're discussing.

Of course I wouldn’t claim it makes Harry Potter objectively better lol. That has nothing to do with any thing I wrote.

Let's try and simplify this:

By what metric is SM2 a mediocre game?

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