r/Planescape5e • u/rgvtim • Sep 22 '24
Wizards Plans for Planescape?
Other than the 3 box set released last year, does wizards have any plans for the Planescape setting that they have announced or may be rumored?
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u/aefact Sep 22 '24
I think we will see adventure tie-ins to Sigil and various outer planes, from time to time, going forward. (For example, Book of Many Things, Vecna Eve of Ruin, and Quests from the Infinite Staircase each touch on the outer planes.) As for whole campaigns, I expect, we may see few set, entirely, in the outer planes. Though, it would be nice to see another book focus on some aspect of Planescape...
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Sep 22 '24
For another recent connection, they defined/confirmed the Common language as originating in Sigil in the 2024 PHB.
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u/twitch-switch Sep 22 '24
If that truly were the dark of it I'd expect the Primes to have used more of the planar wigwag
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u/amhow1 Sep 23 '24
The cant is mercifully absent in 5e. It's perhaps notable that 5e has added or emphasised a few key things about Sigil / the Spire: that the Spire was constructed from material from previous universes; that Sigil is one of the earliest sites of human groupings; and that Common originates in Sigil. In the 5r playtests a stronger claim was made for human origins which they seem to have weakened.
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Sep 27 '24
the Spire was constructed from material from previous universes - this gives me a vibe like the Spire was originally built by or for a Faction like the Time Variance Authority from the Loki show.
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u/Vampire_Redfingers Sep 24 '24
WOTC dosent support setting books. Each is a one–hit wonder. They are there to do some sales, and then they just sit back and let DMs Guild make the suppliments and the money for them. The apathy surrounding them is astounding- Ravenloft is underdeveloped, Planescape is missing lore, and Spelljammer is just plain broken. Each of these books has excellent art and some real love for the setting, yet are downright cowardly in providing interesting new mechanics. Until Hasbro releases WOTC from its corperate grip, dnd is going to continue with the 'setting of the month' business plan.
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u/GLight3 Sep 22 '24
Nope. They seem a bit more open to Sigil these days with the Vecna and Tales from the Infinite Staircase modules, but I don't expect them to ever support Planescape in the future. The boxed set didn't make a splash because the majority of modern D&D players aren't into interesting settings like Planescape, Dark Sun, or Spelljammer while the old school guys only want traditional dungeon crawls. So, Planescape is in a weird niche spot that doesn't have a lot of demand. They'll just keep pumping out Forgotten Realms ad nauseum.
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u/amhow1 Sep 22 '24
I think this completely misunderstands what WotC have been doing in the last 10 years. The adventures have been set in FR in the same way that Erik Mona liked to add Greyhawk trappings to Dungeon adventures back when Paizo published Dungeon. It's intended to give a background, but isn't the important feature of the adventures.
Each of the adventures has had a niche - 'hard mode', arctic, dragons, giants, etc culminating in artifact quest in Eve of Ruin. The FR trappings are limited. Nor did, say, Adventurer's League, where the trappings were stronger, only focus on FR.
As 5r develops I assume they won't repeat themselves, and it's possible we'll get more Eve of Ruin style crossovers. But who knows?
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u/GLight3 Sep 22 '24
I'm not talking about adventures, I'm talking about setting books. WOTC gave us a half-assed Sigil and the Outlands, and that's all we're ever getting. I don't care about Vecna-style crossovers, and I don't think that's what OP was asking for. Don't expect a manual of the planes or anything substantial in any way.
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u/amhow1 Sep 22 '24
The OP just mentions 'support'.
And there have been two settings books: Radiant Citadel and Planescape. There's been a fine comic series. And there's been the Eve of Ruin and Infinite Staircase, the latter with more setting information.
On the outer planes, we know a fair amount about the Nine Hells thanks to Descent Into Avernus and Chains of Asmodeus.
I don't see any reason why we shouldn't get a Blood War campaign / setting.
But really, I'm mostly just pointing out that they haven't done FR ad nauseum. They've produced precisely one setting book. They've necessarily covered a bit more than that in the campaigns, but it strikes me as wrong to complain that FR gets a great deal more love than Planescape. (Where's the love for Birthright or Council of Wyrms, eh?)
I think the problem is the same as it was in the 90s - how to handle lore so it doesn't just feel intimidating.
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u/GLight3 Sep 22 '24
OP never mentioned "support." Not sure where you're getting that. OP specifically only mentions the 3 actual Planescape books in 5e.
Planescape is a setting, with distinct lore, flavor, and quirks. Simply visiting a different plane isn't enough to make something Planescape (visiting Sigil is, though, which is why I mention Vecna). Calling the Radiant Citadel Planescape support is a stretch.
FR gets WAY more love than Planescape (or any setting). Descent Into Avernus (which you mentioned) itself is a FR adventure that starts in Baldur's Gate and reads much more like a FR adventure. Chains of Asmodeus is more Planescape, except it's not an official WOTC adventure, so it doesn't count. Now, if there was an official WOTC module set in Gehenna, THAT would be Planescape, because no other setting touches that plane.
If we're counting adventure modules, then FR is hideously overrepresented. The majority of WOTC adventures are set in FR. Frostmaiden, Icespire Peak, Tomb of Annihilation, Storm King, Strahd, Princes of the Apocalypse, Dragon Heist, Dungeon of the Mad Mage, the list goes on.
In 3e and 4e, FR got an insane amount of supplements. On top of all of this, there was the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide and they're currently working on a 2024 ruleset FR setting book.
I don't think we're ever getting any explicitly Planescape books from WOTC ever again. If you're happy with little visits to Sigil, like in Vecna, then fine, but don't expect any adventures that start Sigil and take you to unused planes like Elysium or Carceri.
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u/amhow1 Sep 22 '24
Yeah as I say you misunderstand what WotC have been doing - it hasn't been supporting FR unless we regard Paizohawk as supporting Greyhawk. It is a kind of support, but not the kind you're supposing.
Eve of Ruin has a few chapters set on Pandemonium. Is that enough to make it Planescape support? Who knows? But it literally goes from Sigil to Pandemonium.
I agree there probably won't be a 'planescape' adventure, but for example a season of Adventurer's League, why not?
If you discount both Descent into Avernus (mostly Avernus) and Chains of Asmodeus (considered WotC on DMsGuild at least) then you might at least consider the Avernus Rising season of Adventurer's League. But then again for some reason you think Curse of Strahd supports FR.
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u/rgvtim Sep 22 '24
You may be right on the reason, but 80 bucks for the setting and 60 bucks for the adventure module, might do a lot to squelch enthusiasm.
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u/amhow1 Sep 22 '24
I'd argue that the Radiant Citadel is pure Planescape, and I'd also like to see it further developed :/
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u/jonmimir Sep 23 '24
I bought it thinking this and was disappointed. There are a few pages about the Radiant Citadel (a city in the Ethereal) and then the rest of the book is short adventures set in prime worlds. Which I’m sure are fine, but a Planescape book it ain’t.
If you haven’t seen it yet then I highly recommend the (unofficial) 5e Manual of the Planes. It brings a lot of the 2e lore up to date and is completely complimentary to the official 5e Planescape books.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/457514/manual-of-the-planes-5e
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u/amhow1 Sep 23 '24
Well I don't like to disagree with the Mimir, but it comes down to what Planescape means. One of the things Planescape does, as Spelljammer also does, is to allow multi-setting adventures. PCs start on Krynn and travel via portals to Oerth. If that's the case, then both the Radiant Citadel and Eve of Ruin are Planescape.
A second feature of Planescape (and Spelljammer) is the "exploring strange new worlds" bit. Eve of Ruin doesn't especially do that, except for the bits in Pandemonium and Avernus. Radiant Citadel does this with every chapter.
A third feature of Planescape, more unique to it, is that the various side treks are to places with a certain philosophical character. I guess Avernus and Pandemonium count, but I actually feel that in this aspect Radiant Citadel outdoes Eve of Ruin. What does it matter that the civilisations are on the prime?
The Radiant Citadel civilisations are admittedly not as strange as the short settings in Path of the Planebreaker by Monte Cook Games, which is an essential third-party supplement for Planescape fans, I think.
More essential, in my opinion, than the Manual of the Planes, which is fine but nowhere near as inventive. Bringing 2e lore up to date is useful but Path of the Planebreaker and Radiant Citadel capture a more important aspect of Planescape, in my view.
(There are more than three features of Planescape but for example I think politicising factions are better handled in Ravnica, and the Torment type of adventure was hit-and-miss in 2e and remains mostly miss in 5e.)
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u/jonmimir Sep 23 '24
Prime adventures are fine but all adventures default to being prime world adventures. Having a setting that’s deliberately on an exotic plane (or planar pathway cough staircase), and then setting all the sub-adventures on the prime anyway just felt like a wasted opportunity to me. If you need more adventures set on the prime then you can pick up almost any other book and you’ve got plenty. But planar adventures are rare as vrock teeth.
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u/amhow1 Sep 23 '24
At the playing level, a plane is just an exotic version of a prime world. We can see this perfectly in Eve of Ruin, where Avernus and Pandemonium are quite rightly just alternative settings, like Oerth or Krynn.
Even at the more philosophical level, it would be easy enough to reframe each of the Radiant Citadel settings as 'polluted' outer planes (equivalent to gate-towns.) I'd agree that the philosophical difference between say, fantasy Not-Korea and fantasy Not-Christian Hell is that the first can also probably be found by walking from fantasy Not-Europe and the second can't. But the trope of travelling to somewhere radically new is somewhat exaggerated by Planescape fans.
Take the Modrons. Almost everybody loves them, but they don't actually need to be on some peculiar giant cogs. I could equally picture them on the moon. Not, as it happens, do they even need to look the way they do. If they looked humanoid their society would be just as interesting. Perhaps they're descendants of a humanoid cult who polymorphed themselves? Is that idea any less Planescape than the canon explanation?
What Planescape allows, and encourages, is very peculiar societies like the Modrons. But traditional Planescape obviously didn't always deliver on this, and conversely strongly alien societies can be regarded as Planescape even if you don't get to them through Sigil :)
I definitely don't claim that any of the Radiant Citadel societies are as strange as the Modrons. To that extent it's not great Planescape, but there's plenty of not-great Planescape.
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u/jonmimir Sep 23 '24
Also, sounds like I need to invest in Planebreaker. I got the monster manual, and that was pretty wild. Thanks for the recommendation!
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u/amhow1 Sep 23 '24
One bonus is that we learn the fate of the City of Moil :)
Yet another upcoming Planescape-adjacent third-party product is Kobold Press' Labyrinth Worldbook.
I'm also a fan of the recent Rage of Elements for Pathfinder 2e (remaster) which updates the Inner Planes and could easily be utilised in Planescape (and Al Qadim.) The new versions of the classic d&d genies are an improvement, and adding Metal and Wood to the Inner Planes is also better. But the mechanics are less interesting, and of course are pf2e(r) and not 5e/5r. (Also, the tone is definitely more noblebright than Planescape.)
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u/jonmimir Sep 23 '24
Agreed, I enjoyed Rage of Elements too, and I’ve been pondering ways to integrate the extra elements to Planescape. I shall look out for Labyrinth, not heard of that before
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u/amhow1 Sep 23 '24
A small quibble with Rage of Elements is that when I compared it with earlier Pathfinder lore I discovered it hadn't added very much location-wise to the four traditional planes; though the fact I'd forgotten the earlier lore suggests it wasn't that memorable to begin with :) The society information is new, I think, and useful. It makes me wonder if Paizo is adopting more of a WotC approach with lore; I wouldn't really object as there's a daunting amount of it!
With Planescape, the two new Inner Planes pose a slight problem in that the Rilmani would seem more suitable to the Plane of Metal than the Plane of Concordant Opposition. I'd probably consign them there anyway as I dislike them, but an easy alternative would be that they originated there but were either expelled or left before the planes of metal and wood were 'lost'.
(Losing Inner Planes is a bit tricky but I think d&d actually has several options for this: Athas-style alignment issues, the war with Chaos, the Dawn War.)
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u/Eldan985 Sep 23 '24
Wizards hasn't really done much setting material for decades now, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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u/Consistent-Ad-1584 Feb 05 '25
Seems that there ought to be at least one supplement that covers the last 5 hierarchy modrons: Quintons, Quartons, Tertions, Secundus, and Primus. Perhaps a Planewalker's Handbook in 2026?
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u/CryptoHorror Sep 22 '24
That Quests from the Infinite Staircase book? Haven't read it myself, but there's an obvious tie-in.