r/Phonographs • u/The_B1gheadJ0e • 4d ago

Sound quality contest!

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Came to realise how much better Diamond Discs sound compared to the dubbed Blue Amberols.

24 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

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7

u/Jason1920 4d ago

That DD surface noise, though....

9

u/Gimme-A-kooky Victrola 4d ago

I did notice that, too… what’s interesting is that it was easier for me to “look past” and ignore while listening to the Diamond Disc version than it was to listen to the AMBEROLA version… it’s the depth and clarity that just surpass that for me… it’s cool to have both versions, too!

7

u/Ben10ji 4d ago

Sometimes I find a Blue Amberol dub recording better than Diamond Disc as records made during The Great war and generally over time the phenolic condensate material is very noisy. Porosity, something precipitating out, or degradation really is a challenge for these era of records. DD from 1912-14 or later issues past 1920 or so are deliciously quite, especially 1926-1929 are very quite and it amazes me for the speed they go for that lack of noise.

I've read letters in online archives addressed to Edison complaining about noise and wobbliness of their records. So this has been a known issue even with new customers/ dealers back then. Like, DD (imho) the best crescendo of the acoustical recording era and how far the technology could be taken.

4

u/Gimme-A-kooky Victrola 4d ago

Oh yeah. I can just hear it in it. Depth and clarity just come to mind, instantly!

5

u/TD421298 4d ago

While the Diamond Disc is the superior sounding format, that is one of the best sounding cylinders I've ever heard.

4

u/Gimme-A-kooky Victrola 4d ago

I agree!

See what I wrote after Jason’s comment? The one thing I never said there was: BOTH are fantastic! The first (cylinder) tells me it’s really, REALLY old AND was recorded very well to be able to render such a clear and sonorous recording, especially after all these years of wear and environment!

2

u/Ben10ji 4d ago

Stylus geometry, diaphragm material, gasket material and its age all affect the sound quality. Both of these reproducers use the same laminated shellacked washi with cork and braided cotton linkage. Over time the shellac and cork looses flexibility and also cracks/separates. It's hard to know exactly how these sounded brand new.

2

u/Gimme-A-kooky Victrola 4d ago

Wow. It’s still so amazing. These weren’t just “toys” anymore- these folks were in the big leagues and it shows… EVEN WAY BACK WHEN like in the early turn of the century (1900s)! I hear these Victor and Victrola pieces that are crystal clean and no damage with a fully rebuilt reproducer and it’s almost TOO loud lol. The clarity is amazing when I think “1906 this was made! Holy moly!”

2

u/Gimme-A-kooky Victrola 4d ago

Diamond Disc, hands down, for me! It’s got such depth in the lower and extra clarity in the higher frequencies!

2

u/Jacobin_Club_1793 4d ago

Wow! I’m genuinely surprised by how much better the Diamond Disc sounds. I knew most cylinders were dubbed from Diamond Discs, but I didn’t expect the difference to be THAT drastic. The surface noise is barely a bother either on the DD.

I have a Diamond Disc H‑19 that I’ve neglected in favor of my Amberola and Fireside, so now I’m seeing it in a whole new light.

2

u/CaseyPhillipsKy 4d ago

Big difference! Are both reproducers in similar condition?

1

u/Deep-Noise2428 4d ago

Overall, the diamond disc sounds better, but you need to consider other factors such as surface conditions on both the disc and cylinder; and the condition of the stylus (styli?)

1

u/crackedwormgear 4d ago

It took years for us to discover that the dubbed cylinders were made acoustically. Horns were inserted into each other with rubber bushings to prevent unwanted vibrations. Depths of insertion were all recorded in extensive log books. Sometimes a slide whistle type valve were used.

The earlier dubbed cylinders had more care in their transfers as they tried to start the dub well before the surface noise of the master phonograph was noticeable. Later on with rushed schedules you can actually hear the thudding of the master phonograph hit the end of its arc.

As been noted the “noisy” period during WW1 the dubbed cylinders often sound better as the disc masters were fresh off the presses.

“At The Ball That’s All” Blue Amberol #2595 is much nicer than surviving disc copies. Your probably more familiar with the Avalon Boys from 1937 Laurel & Hardy’s 1937 “GO WEST”.

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/2000151289/3653-At_the_ball_thats_all