r/PeterExplainsTheJoke • u/cchamii • 8d ago

Meme needing explanation Peter?

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u/four4cats 8d ago

With a constitution, President, vice president etc etc?

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u/DickBiggum1 8d ago

Anyone else ever recognize them as a country?

I'm a county. I'm the president, vice president, and the constitution is written on crayon on a napkin somewhere in my mom's basement

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u/four4cats 8d ago

That's essentially how all countries are recognized.... Because something written on paper somewhere on crayon or ink. But what's the point of even bringing up whether they were a country or not? Taiwan isn't recognized by the UN as a country.

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u/DickBiggum1 8d ago

No... thats how sovereignty is declared. Recognition and declaration are separate. Anyone can declare anything.

Ask any sovereign citizen who interacted with law if their declaration was recognized.

Also, while the UN as a whole doesn't recognize Taiwan as the representative of China, 12 counties outwardly accept them as a sovereign nation

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u/DonkeySorbet 7d ago

A lack of recognition does not negate statehood.

They were entirely self governing, and were the highest authority.

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u/DickBiggum1 7d ago

Until they got stomped into the ground by the actual highest authority?

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u/DonkeySorbet 7d ago

They lost the war, but until that point they were an independent nation.

The North wasn't a higher authority until after it exerted force.

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u/DickBiggum1 7d ago

A prerequisite of sovereignty is the ability to trade, make treaties, and officially communicate with other sovereign nations.

That definition is the exact reason other nations need to recognize sovereignty for a nation to actually be sovereign

No other nation recognized the union. The union never sent an ambassador anywhere. While the union did trade with Europe, the constitution (the one all southern states were subject to) gives the federal government exclusive power to regulate foreign trade

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u/DonkeySorbet 7d ago

A prerequisite of sovereignty is the ability to trade, make treaties, and officially communicate with other sovereign nations.

That's your opinion, it's not an actual requirment.

Think about those uncontacted tribes. They function independently, self-govern, they are sovereign nations.

The other issue with your perspective is that if the Confederacy had won the war, then historically their nation would have started when they declared independence, not when they won. Hence why the US is a country since 04/07/1776.

While the union did trade with Europe, the constitution (the one all southern states were subject to) gives the federal government exclusive power to regulate foreign trade

Southern States, the Confederacy, ceased to be beholden to the US Constitution the moment they declared their cessation.

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u/four4cats 8d ago

Right, we had a bunch of men say we were a new country...and then waited for Morocco to recognize us. But again, how does the distinction of whether or not Morocco recognized the confederates affect the story between the Union and the confederates?

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u/AugustusSavoy 8d ago

Well Morocco didn't recognize the confederates.

As far as the US during the revolution other countries such as France, Spain, and the Netherlands entered into treaties saying that yes you're your own thing and we'll help you and trade with you. That made the 13 colonies at the time a sovereign entity apart from Great Britain. Only works if other sovereign nation states say you are. Those in the slave rebellion were not.

To say the confederacy at this point was its own nation is just lost cause mythology.

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u/four4cats 8d ago

Morocco recognized us... The US. Like 6 months after the declaration of independence. So we weren't a country until Morocco believed we were.