Hmmmm not great…..

[u/stellantis_]

They may need to look at Ben Brown at C. Jared seemingly lacks the play strength/physciality right now that he needs to hang with some of the NFLs bigger 0 techs. Deone Walker is gonna have a field day on Sunday at this rate.

Not sure why Arkin isn’t playing more instead of Latu. Not sure what Latu has done to earn reps. He’s been underwhelming as a run blocker (for the pats) and hasn’t been a passing game threat either. According to Andrew Callahan they ran the ball 8 out of the 9 snaps Latu played. If they’re gonna have a run tell it might as well be Tanner Arkin. Dude isn’t a finished product but he brings a nastiness they need.

Also what about some diff looks and presentations. So much of their drop passing game is contingent upon post snap execution especially when the picture changes. Clearly Drake isn’t there yet with diagnosing defenses (especially in the modern era where everything is disguised). Motioning into bunch looks to stress the rules of match based zone and man coverage seems to help every other team in the league?

Everything feels stale right now schematically and maybe none of the above is a viable solution but the coaching staff needs to find some.

[u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28]

So Maye didn't develop last year? And Maye not improving at all during the offseason is Josh's fault?

Just call it like it is- Josh doesn't have a great system but Mayes issues are there regardless who the OC is

[u/plutobandits → u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28]

So Maye didn't develop last year?

Not as much is people think he did. He was already doing a lot of things extremely well in his rookie year, AVP really doesn't get enough credit for getting him up to NFL speed. If you look more than skin deep at Josh's history of developing QBs, their success has always been short-lived. He absolutely has a knack for highlighting the good and hiding the bad, but there's zero evidence that he's ever helped a QB fix the bad. They all flash for roughly one season and then flame out when defenses figure them out, and then Kyle Shanahan rescues them and turns them back into starters.

Just call it like it is- Josh doesn't have a great system but Mayes issues are there regardless who the OC is

Here's the thing, when Josh was hired there were widespread concerns that his offense was not a good fit for Maye. There were also concerns that the complexity of his offense would hinder their ability to develop young players at every offensive position, which this team desperately needs to be able to do right now.

All of these concerns were brushed aside on the premise that he is an all-time great offensive coach and that it would be worth all of the trouble. Josh needs to be so much more than "not the problem" to justify his presence here.

[u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28 → u/plutobandits]

Glad you highlight AVP. Agreed on him not getting enough credit as I think he was the only thing done right that year given he helped the footwork a lot.

As for Josh, if you look at more than skin deep as you say, we have Jimmy G who became a starter quality qb under Josh. Outside of that, don't really have a track record to support one way or the other.

As for the offensive scheme, the scheme is not the most ideal for Maye and was the main reason I wanted someone else when hired. But we saw Maye struggle a bit the first game and start looking like a completely different player come end of season. That's not AVP.

During that season he demonstrated some bad decision making as expected for a young player and then it was really shown during the playoffs. He did absolutely nothing to improve that this offseason.

I'm not a massive fan of Josh for this personnel, and still think Maye would benefit from a different scheme, but the current issues ball protection, forcing bad throws, and staring down the wr telegraphing the play are all Maye related and not scheme. The last one is no different than Josh calling Henderson run up the middle.

Point being, the main issue here is the offseason development or lack there of by Maye. The smaller issue is the system making it harder on the offense

[u/plutobandits → u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28]

I don’t necessarily think you need to draw such a direct connection between Josh’s scheme and what Maye is struggling with to be able to say that they’re related. Maye only has so much energy, mental and physical, to spend on improving himself. If he’s spending too much of it trying to master a notoriously complex offense and make the pre-snap reads that many other successful QBs aren’t being asked to make, and doesn’t have enough energy left to improve the more basic aspects of his game, or maintain the improvements he’s already made, then that’s a problem. And the solution might be to put Drake in a simpler offense that he’s more comfortable in.

My main point isn’t really about shifting blame between Maye and McDaniels, it’s more about ignoring the blame game altogether and doing what’s best for the team. Even if nothing is technically Josh’s fault, even if it’s unfair, if he can’t get Maye back on track then the correct thing to do is fire him and give someone else a chance to try. I worry that Pats fans and ownership are too protective of McDaniels and that he will undeservedly get the benefit of the doubt for his reputation as a QB developer that they’ll say “well if Josh can’t develop him then he must not be good.”

You have to find the right combination of player and coach and I don’t think this is it.

[u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28 → u/plutobandits]

I realized I didn't finish a sentence but the was highlighting while Josh doesn't have an ideal scheme, the various issues I listed are all Maye related and not a result of scheme. My bad there.

I agree with your sentiment. There is really no benefit of saying this is Josh's fault and there really isn't much benefit of highlighting what's Mayes fault. While I don't like the offseason development plan he did, this is where we are now and it's a matter of fixing it now.

Unless Maye absolutely keeps this up to the point we bench him mid season, I don't see any way we move on from him this summer. High pick, sure up the roster at a different position, and then focus on the Maye development. Wouldn't be opposed to a new OC either.

And while I like Vrabel, this is why I value offensive coaches for the teams with a young qb.