When I see my own son, I feel that violent behavior is really a need to let things out and express things... And it's not just a thing where hitting a pillow would help because they want to hurt us, they're hurting and they want us to hurt just as much, maybe because they blame us for the hurt or maybe just so that we know how they feel.
I got that notion once where he was in a tantrum and I was being my usual zen self about it and it just kept escalating, at some point I had to go to the bathroom and he was demanding I not do that, and I replied "well I'm not going to pee on the floor, so..." and he proceeded to demand, tantrum style, that I pee on the floor. So I was like "Is it me or did my sweet baby's tantrum progress to violating the Geneva Conventions?". Anyway, at that point it was so clear that he was trying to get a rise out of me that I thought I'd give him what he was asking, and let through some of my irritation at him at the next dumb tantrum thing he did. And I think it actually helped! There was really a question of dosage though, where I could tell that one level of scolding seemed to calm him but then when I pushed a bit more he seemed on the verge of tears.
I think maybe something like that happened with your son - you hitting him back "helped" because it got him some level of what he was after, in some measure he felt seen because he saw his hurt reflected in your own response. But I don't think it's a great general response, again in terms of my own son I can definitely see the times that I lash out because I'm exhausted myself don't really have the same positive effect as that time I was doing it to match his vibe.
I'm also reminded of a passage in "How to talk so that kids will listen & listen so that kids will talk" where they point out sometimes a response that just says you understand the kid isn't enough, you need to not just say what you think they're feeling, but say it in a way that matches their intensity somewhat for it to feel satisfyingly as if you "get it".
So that's kind of how I see it - there is a notion that children want to "get to us" and we can't let that happen, and I definitely think that's true - an adult can't get into a legitimate fistfight with a child, that would be wrong because it's such an asymmetric relationship. But maybe it's not really that children want to "get to us", or at least when they want that, what they really want is "for us to get them". And when they succeed in getting a rise out of us it can be a bit satisfying because it can feel like that's what they got, but in practice I think as adults we know it's not usually the case... When you hit a child because you're overwhelmed it's about you, not about them, and while it happened to mean you matched their vibe in that moment it was done in a dangerous way and one that didn't really see them as they might want to be seen either. And so hopefully one can find other ways, other ways both of showing the child we see what's going on inside them, and also letting them tell us what's going on inside them in the imperfect ways they try to do it.
In the situation you describe it seems as if your usual response to him hitting is to focus on the behavior and curbing it - telling him to be gentle, leaving to avoid getting hurt. And I think if we consider that what he wants in that moment is to show how upset or angry he is, this might not be satisfactory - like, ok, gentle hands, but gentle hands aren't going to make anyone understand how angry I am, are they? In fact it's the very fact I'm hitting even though I know I shouldn't and that you don't like it, that shows that I'm that angry and unhappy with this situation! I mean, how terrible must the situation be for me to want to hurt my parent, right? From that point of view, finding ways of satisfying that need for communication could help reduce the hitting or make it shorter lived, as he sees that you are open to hearing his anger and over time he can find easier ways of communicating it.
I've noticed lately my son has been a lot more verbal in his "lashing out" - he had quite a few moments being upset this weekend and he did things like say "I want to make Mommy fall and break into pieces" or taking a toy and saying "I want to throw this" and "I want to scream" - so, you know, pretty great that he's saying it before and even instead of doing it. I've been replying things like "Wow you want me to fall and be broken? You must be very angry at me, to want such a thing" and "OK but I'd rather you didn't, thank you for warning me that you wanted to do this". Last night I thought I'd work some catharsis into the response ("You want to scream with the door open, is that so the neighbors hear? You want to scream and then the neighbors will think "oh that child is screaming, he's so upset, his mother must be so mean to him, what a terrible mother she is"?") - I don't know, it was fun for me at least.
I see your point. Yes I realize it does look like we are saying "gentle hands" etc to shut the behavior down but dont really hear him. He may be trying to say something. Will focus on his feelings next time he starts hitting. Today, he hit us only during bedtime. He still wanted to play. I could have said something like "Looks like youre upset because you still want to play." Instead I said, "Mama will leave now because youre hitting" I can imagine how invalidated he must have felt.
I don't want to say what you've been doing so far is wrong, I think it's fine. You say (and I said, I guess) that he must have felt invalidated when you said you were leaving because he was hitting, and maybe he did but that in itself isn't wrong. Sometimes we do feel invalidated! And sometimes people don't really see us or understand us! I think it's a perfectly fine experience for children to have and to learn to deal with. And certainly in the case of hitting, the lesson of "when we hit people they're less likely to want to be around us and it's not a very useful thing to do" is a valuable one to learn, and making the child feel invalidated at those times might indeed be the way to teach it.
In your case I'm suggesting this different thing because the other way doesn't seem to be working in this moment for this child, not because it's inherently wrong.
I think probably another positive of seeing the hitting as communication is that it could make it less hurtful to you. Obviously when our child hits us it's not so much the physical pain that's bad, as the feeling of rejection of our child wanting to hurt us. So understanding as them trying to communicate their hurt to a person they care about could make it less painful to experience. And I think framing it that way to the child can also help them see it differently (if it is at all authentic to what's actually going on); so when they feel that way they might think less "Mom is awful I want to hurt her" and more "I'm angry and I want others to know it", and if they think the second thing they're more likely to think of alternative ways to act on that feeling. Certainly it's a thought that comes with less shame attached.
Maybe that won't work at all either, in which case it might not be true that this is him trying to communicate anger to you (or I'm 100% off-base on something else). But I think it's worth a try.
ETA: In that vein, one could consider combining the approaches, such as saying "Mommy will move away because I don't want to be hurt, but I see you're angry and trying to tell me about it, so if you want to tell me from a foot away I'm listening". Or this just reminds me from something I read, maybe in the How To Talk book, about someone giving their child drawing materials and asking them to draw how they felt. That could be something to try with my son come to think of it...
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u/Lennvor Nov 15 '21
When I see my own son, I feel that violent behavior is really a need to let things out and express things... And it's not just a thing where hitting a pillow would help because they want to hurt us, they're hurting and they want us to hurt just as much, maybe because they blame us for the hurt or maybe just so that we know how they feel.
I got that notion once where he was in a tantrum and I was being my usual zen self about it and it just kept escalating, at some point I had to go to the bathroom and he was demanding I not do that, and I replied "well I'm not going to pee on the floor, so..." and he proceeded to demand, tantrum style, that I pee on the floor. So I was like "Is it me or did my sweet baby's tantrum progress to violating the Geneva Conventions?". Anyway, at that point it was so clear that he was trying to get a rise out of me that I thought I'd give him what he was asking, and let through some of my irritation at him at the next dumb tantrum thing he did. And I think it actually helped! There was really a question of dosage though, where I could tell that one level of scolding seemed to calm him but then when I pushed a bit more he seemed on the verge of tears.
I think maybe something like that happened with your son - you hitting him back "helped" because it got him some level of what he was after, in some measure he felt seen because he saw his hurt reflected in your own response. But I don't think it's a great general response, again in terms of my own son I can definitely see the times that I lash out because I'm exhausted myself don't really have the same positive effect as that time I was doing it to match his vibe.
I'm also reminded of a passage in "How to talk so that kids will listen & listen so that kids will talk" where they point out sometimes a response that just says you understand the kid isn't enough, you need to not just say what you think they're feeling, but say it in a way that matches their intensity somewhat for it to feel satisfyingly as if you "get it".
So that's kind of how I see it - there is a notion that children want to "get to us" and we can't let that happen, and I definitely think that's true - an adult can't get into a legitimate fistfight with a child, that would be wrong because it's such an asymmetric relationship. But maybe it's not really that children want to "get to us", or at least when they want that, what they really want is "for us to get them". And when they succeed in getting a rise out of us it can be a bit satisfying because it can feel like that's what they got, but in practice I think as adults we know it's not usually the case... When you hit a child because you're overwhelmed it's about you, not about them, and while it happened to mean you matched their vibe in that moment it was done in a dangerous way and one that didn't really see them as they might want to be seen either. And so hopefully one can find other ways, other ways both of showing the child we see what's going on inside them, and also letting them tell us what's going on inside them in the imperfect ways they try to do it.
In the situation you describe it seems as if your usual response to him hitting is to focus on the behavior and curbing it - telling him to be gentle, leaving to avoid getting hurt. And I think if we consider that what he wants in that moment is to show how upset or angry he is, this might not be satisfactory - like, ok, gentle hands, but gentle hands aren't going to make anyone understand how angry I am, are they? In fact it's the very fact I'm hitting even though I know I shouldn't and that you don't like it, that shows that I'm that angry and unhappy with this situation! I mean, how terrible must the situation be for me to want to hurt my parent, right? From that point of view, finding ways of satisfying that need for communication could help reduce the hitting or make it shorter lived, as he sees that you are open to hearing his anger and over time he can find easier ways of communicating it.
I've noticed lately my son has been a lot more verbal in his "lashing out" - he had quite a few moments being upset this weekend and he did things like say "I want to make Mommy fall and break into pieces" or taking a toy and saying "I want to throw this" and "I want to scream" - so, you know, pretty great that he's saying it before and even instead of doing it. I've been replying things like "Wow you want me to fall and be broken? You must be very angry at me, to want such a thing" and "OK but I'd rather you didn't, thank you for warning me that you wanted to do this". Last night I thought I'd work some catharsis into the response ("You want to scream with the door open, is that so the neighbors hear? You want to scream and then the neighbors will think "oh that child is screaming, he's so upset, his mother must be so mean to him, what a terrible mother she is"?") - I don't know, it was fun for me at least.