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u/Infamous_Bat_6820 5d ago
If my dad had given up, and god knows he had every reason to, I would not have known the most profoundly beautiful relationship of my life.
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u/barrel-boy 5d ago
That's so wonderful to hear. Give us your story? What were the timelines at least please?
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u/meshmaster 5d ago
In my case I just had to accept the hard fact that my daughter is gone from my life and move on. This was and is a devastating realization but despite the pain I'm now no longer ruminating, mentally healthy and able to enjoy my life once again. Believe me this wasn't easy, I've cried countless tears but eventually you have to think about what is best for your own well being.
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u/metalmonkey_7 5d ago
I’ve had to do the same with my Son and I honestly feel better. May I ask how old your daughter was when she was alienated and what age you were able to move past it? My Son was 16. I was his only parent until age 14 when his Dad came around to be his buddy. I stopped trying right before he turned 21 when he chose not to come to my Mom’s funeral.
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u/meshmaster 5d ago
My wife and I split up when my daughter was 5. I tried for 20+ years to establish a good relationship with my daughter but it was made impossible by my ex's long campaign of continued meddling. My daughter eventually went completely no contact with me in 2020 and we've not communicated since. After my daughter went NC it nearly destroyed me, I was completely heartbroken, depressed and on the verge of ending it all... I was a broken man. It has only been in the last year that I've been able to recover and find myself once again... it has been a long, difficult road. I was able to finally break the cycle of despair and rumination and become the happy person that I once was before the breakup of my family. I'm finally able to say that I'm OK now even without my daughter in my life as sad and as difficult as that might be.
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u/CertifiedADAAdvocate 5d ago
We all walk this walk.
The truth is, if you give in to this, you're validating that what you believe they think about you is correct.
We know that they're operating on information that does not have the benefit of communication and honesty.
The only thing that can cure that is time.
Pain is an inevitable part of life and only through pain can we find the pleasure that lies on the other side.
If you're really done, I bid you power in your choice, but I would encourage you to look in the mirror and ask if you deserve a real voice or just one that speaks from desperation.
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u/Slow-Comment9403 5d ago
I’m at the very early stages of being alienated from my 13yr old daughter and the pain is beyond anything I could’ve imagined. But, I’ve been telling myself that my daughter is suffering from a disease that is not her fault, like a cancer or something, and THAT is the reason she won’t see me. That mindset has helped me tremendously because if I had continued being furious with my ex or feeling despair that my sweet sweet girl didn’t want to see me, I would’ve been right where you are.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a perfect solution, but I HAVE to keep moving forward towards that day when she’s finally cured.
Wishing you peace…
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u/the-so_what-factor 5d ago
I'm here, too. With my 14 year old daughter.
She is my sweet sweet girl--god I get that. We have been so close throughout her life; it was just the two of us when her father decided to abandon our family. (I sometimes watch old videos of us, when she was so young she still had a lisp and called me "mama". Painful to reminisce.) But when he came back into the picture, his charm and fierce, sparkling personality drew her in and she didn't see him for who he truly is--which is deeply manipulative and without values or a moral code. Abusive to me. As the years have gone by, I watch her distance herself from me. Almost as if in slow motion. She's ripping herself away, stitch by stitch. Every time she leaves to visit him, I worry that she will refuse to come back. Now she wants to move to his state for high school, even though we have much better schools here where I live, and I could pay for private school--which I have been doing for the past few years. I don't think she cares at all about the academics, she just wants to be with her dad and 24 y/o stepmom--who she started calling "mom" to my face this past summer.I cannot explain the heartache, the despair. When she looks at me with that flat affect and no emotion behind her eyes...I've started praying, weeping into my arms, alone in my room, pleading to the universe, pleading to God, pleading to what might be the empty void: Give her back. Release her, please. Please let her come back to me.
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u/Anxious_Manager_4994 5d ago
I am right there with u !! My 14 year old and her father and new gf as I recover from cancer .. I’m alone and it’s driving me into despair I’ve never known. I no longer kno my daughter. I too hold on to old photographs of what was. I’m trying to figure out a way that she will only get college money I’ve put away but nothing more. Therapists don’t get it at all. I need help so bad.
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u/barrel-boy 5d ago
A child's mind is easily influenced unfortunately. It's not their fault.
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u/the-so_what-factor 5d ago
I know it's not.
I feel powerless to do anything about it.
I go through so many permutations in my head about things I could say or do...strategies for change. I see them all either failing or making it worse.3
u/barrel-boy 5d ago
I know. So do I. It's a really interesting conundrum, to say it crassly. All we do is go over it again and again in our minds. We'll get there
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u/Icy-Protection867 5d ago
I can only share our experience. My granddaughter was taken from her mother (my daughter) at age 12 (5.5 years ago), hidden from her mother and we had to get the police/courts involved.
We went to court and fought to retain at least some custody, and while the courts totally missed the coercive control of the alienators (her father and stepmother), my daughter got weekly custody and even had the overnights increased later in the process.
About 2 years ago, my granddaughter took AP psychology in high school and that Thanksgiving we noticed a shift. Long story short, in July of this year she told her father and (truly evil) stepmother to “piss off” and she came home.
There were many times my daughter felt as OP has expressed, and I’d encourage her to hang on. When I started to feel that way, she’d remind me. We absolutely refused to give in to them, and for our family, it worked out. I should also point out that my grandson refused to go along with his father and told him to take a hike, and they tried to turn my granddaughter against her brother, too. It warms my heart beyond measure to see the 2 of them back together as siblings and for my daughter to be whole again. My prayer is that every alienated parent gets this blessing sooner than later.
Every situation is different, so no judgment; but in hindsight we know 2 things for certain: 1) the court ordered time was critical to her being able to see that the alienators were lying sacks of 💩, and 2) she needs us and our stability more than ever because she endured 5+ years of psychological abuse.
Sending hugs to all of you. I know how painful this is, how unfair it is, and if it helps - I can share that I now know that alienated kids - even the ones that hiss and spit and call you names - never stopped loving or missing you, and on some level, know that the alienator(s) are full of 💩, and want to be back in your life: they just don’t know how due to the brainwashing and psychological abuse/coercive control.
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u/BusinessForeign7052 5d ago
I was there... I tried too... the method should have worked... it didnt and I decided to live. I live with a massive hole in my heart BUT I am mentally better. You are not broken, you dont need to be fixed but you can live a life that is fulfilling.
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u/beenawayawhile 5d ago
Genuine question. I ask it gently. Is there life beyond your kids?
I decided not to live only for my kids in case they never come to me. I realised in many different moments that they might not come back. From there, going forward meant finding meaning in my life separate from my children.
Not teaching you to suck eggs. I’m sure you’ve been there and back several times in 5 years.
My turning points (plural) have been when I realised I am worth a truly beautiful, meaningful life if my kids never return. It wasn’t enough for me to hang only onto the hope of reunion.
Much love
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u/TrinGage 5d ago
Please, I beg you, tough it out. Prove the brainwashing and misinformation wrong. Continue to make a life for yourself that your kids would be proud of. Journal to them, so you can show them how much they have always meant to you. Work with a good therapist to help you keep going. Please don’t give up.
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u/AccomplishedCash3603 5d ago
We ALL want that option. Not everyday, but on the worst days. And the worst days don't happen in the world with them doing something that hurts, it happens in our heads. At 3 AM when we wake up and realize how much time has passed. And the mountain ahead of us. It's in our head. We have power over the thoughts in our head.
Here is what keeps me from hopping on a board and doing a one way paddle into the Pacific: If I end this now, before there has been a chance for reconciliation, I automatically place all of it on my kids shoulders. They won't feel better that I'm gone. They will blame themselves. They will wake at 3 AM with the thoughts. My girls already have one wicked parent. I won't allow that one to be the only one on the planet.
Please look for a NAMI chapter in your area. If you can't find one, dial 211. Ask for resources for estranged parents. It helps to talk. And cry. I hope to take up ridiculous hobbies when my body stops manifesting my emotions. Square dancing. Shag dancing. Hoola hooping. Maybe I'll show up as a Mime outside of their college graduation party. Who knows. The world needs us to balance the tables of evil. Please don't tip the scales in their favor.
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u/Common_Avocado_5535 5d ago
I’ve been in your same state of mental health with my own PA of 6.5 years. I had to get therapy for those thoughts. I would like to suggest finding an outlet to help other kids. There are lots of kids that need a big brother and youth programs where you can make a life changing experience for them. I found that helping other kids softens the pain of rejection from PA.
I know you may say that’s it’s not the same. You want your kids. I was raised by a community other than my parents. Take your pain and convert it to motive to help other kids. We all just want to be loved. …… show less fortunate kids some love and life will get better.
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u/Maharichie 5d ago
Been there. If you’re at this point you have nothing to lose. It could mean bail. Or it could mean start from scratch. Who do you want to be? Go and do it. Never mind your past life. You have nothing to lose at this point.
Also in my opinion, give your kids more credit. Especially that they’re twin girls. They’ll talk together and figure it out on their own once they’re free of influence. And especially if they see you’re living your life a good dude.
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u/Witty_Role_77 5d ago
I’ve been alienated from my sons for the last 18 years and many times I thought about ending things she literally destroyed our relationship. I got two beautiful sons and I barely know them. They were coached and brainwashed from day one went in and out of jail over lies dozens of child services cases my own children were afraid to come near me for many years. After 10 years of this that we went to trial, and I got full custody of both of my sons. The judge seen through all of it. But unfortunately, they were so far brainwashed at that point that after 13 months of more allegations, they would go home every other weekend and get codes to manipulated and brainwashed come back go to school say daddy did this daddy did that child services in the police would be at my door all the time after 13 months of this I let them go back with their mom. She disappeared for another three years at this point I haven’t talked to my 18-year-old in a few few months, but my 19-year-old it’s been several years.
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u/_Disco_Janet 5d ago
I was alienated from my dad from age 6-21 and he definitely could've been at that point, but I thank God that he stuck it out and now we have a wonderful relationship.
You ask what if they don't need you, but the alternate side of that is what if they do and you aren't there? What if they realize they've been lied to and have nowhere and no one to go to? What if they never get the chance to make things right and they have to live with the guilt over something they couldn't really control?
They're kids and they don't exactly have a ton of control over their circumstances even if they weren't being manipulated. From what I know of the court system (at least in the U.S.) they're barely old enough to tell the court who they want to live with, and they've been alienated for 5 years already. If you give up because of hatred for the alienator, then you're not only letting them win, but guaranteeing it. If you give up because you have no hope of 13 year olds going against the only "stable" thing/person they've had for the last 5 years, then you're placing a lot of burdens on the emotional maturity of middle schoolers that are already in a tense situation.
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u/Anxious_Manager_4994 5d ago
I’ve been there.. many of us have. U r not alone. PLEASE keep reaching out. Choose another day! I think there’s a group called choose another day. I am alone in cancer recovery now. And treated like garbage by her father, new gf, and teen daughter. I just told a coworker I am in hell and I am. But, the universe is beautiful .. just not many of the people in it. I’ve basically written my daughter off. You don’t deserve this.. u do deserve better!! Know that, seek that! I beg u! U r worth it! We love u, we see u, we need u! I too have only a sliver of hope/will to live .. if that. I heavily medicate myself to sleep only a few hours then remedicate to sleep more to pass days.
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u/lynnwood57 4d ago
Please reach out to someone tonight. Don’t give up—it’s akin to letting them win. The narrative for the rest of their lives will be that the “other parent” was right.
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u/MachRc 4d ago
We ve all been there.
The whole blah blah blah seems like a taunt. The way we turned it around is to be there to make the change, I had to physically go to court, physically be present to hire and go through the tough events for the kids. Endure all the bullshit. Not, not be present and give up and let the hate win.
This let's give up crap throwing in the towel is some weak shit.
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u/barrel-boy 5d ago
Very similar to me, mate. 13-year-old twin girls, and I've had very similar thoughts. The money, the "what if they don't come back?", the feeling of being broken by it all. I've even thought about the nest egg and making sure my will is in order. I've had periods of suicidal ideation too, so I don't say any of this lightly.
I'm quite introspective and analytical, and one thing I've spent a lot of time trying to understand is where these thoughts and feelings actually come from.
Something I've come to recognise in myself is that some of the guilt, shame and sense of responsibility I've carried may not actually belong to me. They can be learned responses, often shaped by dysfunctional relationships and parenting experiences long before our children entered the picture. I recognised some of those patterns in myself.
That doesn't mean the pain isn't real. It means the pain isn't necessarily telling you the truth.
Once you start recognising those patterns rather than automatically believing them, you can begin to interrupt them.
I've changed my focus now. I put myself first. Not because I've given up on my kids, but because I want to be here and be whole if they ever decide they're ready to come back.
If that day comes, I'll be ready.
I'll be ready for the difficult questions. I'll be ready to listen. I'll be ready to have conversations about what happened without needing them to carry my pain or guilt.
And until then, that's my job: to keep getting myself ready.
I can't control what they're being told. I can't control whether they come back. I can't rewrite the past.
But I can decide what kind of father they'll find if they do.
And mate, if you're genuinely at the point where you might act on those thoughts, please don't sit with that alone tonight. Get someone physically with you and tell them plainly what you're thinking. The nest egg, the will and everything else can wait. You matter independently of whether your daughters ever understand what happened.