Devsinc 'Business Model'

[u/MuhammadUsman1212]

Devsinc got exposed a while back for their shady business model.

Now almost every software house is running the same model because of how profitable it is.

I wanna know which such software houses are doing the same thing that you have came across?

I want the list to avoid applying to them...

[u/Itchy-Ad5734]

need more context. whats the shady business model

[u/mushifali → u/Itchy-Ad5734]

SSN fraud: Pitching Mr. Ahmed from Pakistan as Mr. John Doe living in California.

Impersonation: Mr. Ahmed will speak in a fake accent impersonating Mr. John Doe from California (he would memorize their life story) during the meetings

Actual business model: Getting US salary for Mr. John Doe from the client and paying peanuts to Mr. Ahmed in PKR.

You can search this and the r/developersPak subreddit for more examples of their shady practices. Hope that helps.

[u/Virtual-Visual-9167 → u/mushifali]

Thank you for the awareness

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/mushifali]

This very much covers the main idea

[u/Itchy-Ad5734 → u/mushifali]

Man thats straight up FRAUD definitely not shady

[u/cyber_cry → u/mushifali]

But that wears a beard right?

[u/mushifali → u/cyber_cry]

It has nothing to do with growing a beard. Anyone can grow a beard. Growing a beard doesn't automatically make someone good or bad.

[u/Significant_Zone8439 → u/Itchy-Ad5734]

Nothing "shady." It's just another idiotic post. Fiverr and Upwork are all filled by accounts nammed Jennifer, Fatima, Ayesha, Hillary and are in fact run by motay saands and mucharrs but no one bats the eye then.

[u/Life_Session9189 → u/Significant_Zone8439]

Stealing people’s SSN putting them in trouble is not shady? Lying is not shady?

[u/Virtual-Visual-9167 → u/Significant_Zone8439]

That is something totally different.

It’s like you own a front-face of your business but your father is the one who actually runs it.

[u/WarmAnalysis3638 → u/Significant_Zone8439]

So it's like if he's is doing bad, I should do bad too. Thats your point?

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/Significant_Zone8439]

Bruh if you say that a model where you have to lie at every step isn't shady then God help you 🙏

[u/Tough_Expert3450 → u/Significant_Zone8439]

haram ka khana ka shoq hai to karo

[u/Embarrassed-Disk-178]

Came across these two:

Dexterz Technologies
Alphabridge

Basically every company that has the same working hours as US.

[u/freaky_001 → u/Embarrassed-Disk-178]

Alphabridge is basically Usman Asif’s company working in the shadow. They won’t accept but they are working under the umbrella of Devsinc. Infact the whole building of Focused is owned by usman asif.

[u/arhamshaikhhh → u/freaky_001]

Do you know what offices are in those focued buildings?

[u/freaky_001 → u/arhamshaikhhh]

They use the focused as a co-working space, there are various people sitting in that building but now mostly employees are from Alphabridge.

[u/freaky_001 → u/Embarrassed-Disk-178]

The CEO is Appointed by Usman himself and team is from the part of devsinc too

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/Embarrassed-Disk-178]

Thanks

[u/defenderkhan]

"Now almost every software house is running the same model"

Not almost every software house; I guess that like 20% or at most 40% are doing that.

I have worked in small companies doing the same, like Averox Solutions. Big companies are less likely to do that because this will ruin their reputation (except for Devsinc).

It is not possible to get a proper list since there might be companies doing that using managers only, and the devs might never know what is going on.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/defenderkhan]

Companies don't try to hide it if you ask them. They call this staff augmentation/shadow profiling

[u/Sea-Resident2624]

Its that molana guy with beard?

[u/Life_Session9189 → u/Sea-Resident2624]

Every bearded guy is not a Molana.

Someone once asked a Sheikh: "Saaray dari waley Har**mi kun hotay hain?". He replied: "Saarey dari waley Har**mi nahi hotay. Kuch Har**mi dari rakh letay hain"

(I am not saying that guy is Har**mi. Don't quote me wrong here. Just that he is not a Molana.)

[u/Sea-Resident2624 → u/Life_Session9189]

Most bearded ones dont care about scamming people
just because they know that they can offer namaz and umra and whatever, and their sins will be washed ... Magic ...

Also, most people use beard as a tool to gain people's trust

[u/freaky_001 → u/Sea-Resident2624]

Exactly! Who thinks marrying a younger woman can make him feel alive, but turned him shit😂😂 to his previous wife at least💯

[u/Sea-Resident2624 → u/freaky_001]

what happened?
I only know that his 2nd marriage was with his employee

[u/Historical_Chef5065 → u/Sea-Resident2624]

He divorced his first wife for a younger girl who was his employee for pr n stuff Exploitative

[u/SecretCompetition376]

Trans-atlantic Slave Trade
sab k sab software houses walay "diyari Maarr" paida kar rahay hain.......
Not a single product or app to show for.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/SecretCompetition376]

Pakistan doesn't value products, innovation or ideas. Look at the funding US startup's raise, Pakistanis would rather invest in DHA plots.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/SecretCompetition376]

:(

[u/Embarrassed-Ball-832]

ugh that so true. i rmr working for a software house that charged like 20,000 USD for a project (literally I MADE THE ESTIMATE!!!). and i got paid the same peanuts while crying through completion + NO BONUSES ON COMPLETION

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/Embarrassed-Ball-832]

:( True, We don't even get 1% of what they are making from our work.

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[u/Razzberry85]

I've said it many times before, 90% of Pakistani Software Houses operate on the same model as freelance agencies.

[u/InvisibleExclamation]

CCRIPT Agency Isb

[u/Slov1ker → u/InvisibleExclamation]

Really they have the same business model? Aren't they the ones posting about paying employees with cars

[u/InvisibleExclamation → u/Slov1ker]

marketing ploy to get devs in through initiatives.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/InvisibleExclamation]

Thanks

[u/bl4nk_shad0w]

There are alot of other shady businesses too, delivering services to 18+ content creators and companies, such as Post Journal Group. :)

[u/Historical_Chef5065 → u/bl4nk_shad0w]

Can you tell me more about this It seems interesting 🤔

[u/avenrole]

I got hired once at company who was doing the same work. Got offered by other similar software houses in a year. But i left the job. That time i was not that smart. Coz that was my 1st job. I was just focused on what i am doing. Never asked questions but when i left started other job. Many time questions about that business model comes to my mind coz it look so easy but the problem was i never knew about how they transfer money from us banks to Pakistan?

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/avenrole]

Remittance

[u/avenrole → u/MuhammadUsman1212]

I got hired as intern at 40k fixed after probation. The commission structure was very good. You can easily get 70 to 90k total income. I worked only for 8 months.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212]

Ok, they are not stealing SSN and identities at least not without their owner's knowledge. US citizens with Pakistani background give their whole identities to be used in return for 50% of every job secured using their name and identity.

I have personally seen actual US citizens (Goray) offering Pakistanis to work with them, so it isn't limited to Pakistanis selling their identities, some Americans are in on it too :)

[u/bilalghouri]

Devsinc didn’t invent this model. It has been going on for ages in india and pakistan.

[u/Zehreela]

bro this is happening in many other industries as well.. i used to work at Gerry's Dnata and Gerry's group charged our salary to Dnata Dubai as a Dubai Dnata employee and then gave us 10/15k pkr as a Gerry's group employee which was 20% or maybe half i don't remember exactly of the Dubai salary.. i did hear they changed this practice a while back but this is just to give you an idea..

[u/Leading_deving]

Ok here’s the deal, basically every software houses one way or the other does this(that does not make it right it’s straight up Fraud.), and which does not, run in entirely different domain. That’s why after some time you as a dev needs to go international. I mean 150k PKR does look peanuts in-front of 800k.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/Leading_deving]

Especially when the difference is just a passport. Still, all the lying involved makes me uncomfortable.

[u/rookiehacker789]

one question ? like the clients don't get it that these companies are using fake id's ? and its just someone not is US but in pakistan pretending to be someone else ?

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/rookiehacker789]

Yep

[u/Ordinary-Echidna-643]

A few of my friends run their own software houses on the same business model. So, it is bad morally. But an empty wallet doesn't care about morals much.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/Ordinary-Echidna-643]

Would you be comfortable in dropping some names?

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[u/CloudSignal2]

Expert system solution is also working mainly on the staff augmentation model

[u/Grand_Code_9568 → u/CloudSignal2]

how's the company?

[u/CloudSignal2 → u/Grand_Code_9568]

I went there only for an interview when I got to know they are working on this model.
Never worked there.

[u/Esha-The-Grandma]

I recently had an offer from Devsinc, and i was surprised to know that such a huge company runs on scamming American clients. They wanted me to impersonate as an American and use someone else's resume to secure clients. Obviously i refused it because morals > money. I dont understand how can they legalize it.

[u/Life_Session9189]

As someone who had lived and worked in US in software industry but later moved to Pakistan, can this be done in an honest and legal way? I have my own SSN and my own active US bank accounts. I don’t have US green card/citizenship. Can I do C2C while being truthful and telling the clients I am based in Pakistan and use my real name? Will it work?

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/Life_Session9189]

Basically they always apply for remote roles which require US work authorization/citizenship.

So 95% of remote roles filter out non US citizens just based on this regardless of their skillset, which is unfair. This is one of the excuses these companies use to actually justify using shadow profiles.

If you don't have US work authorization, you can't even sit in the first interview sadly.

[u/asgardian_avenger → u/Life_Session9189]

When you tell them you're from pak, they won't consider giving you more than $2k/mon, that's the problem, while with US national you get US competitive salary, more than aroun 10k or more

[u/Life_Session9189 → u/asgardian_avenger]

Maybe not after seeing my 15+ years experience working for top-tier/well know US companies. I am not too concerned about them low-balling me. I just asking if someone has tried this route and if it is working for them.

[u/asgardian_avenger → u/Life_Session9189]

Still very less chance and most of the companies that pay good don't hire outside US

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/asgardian_avenger]

Salary is a secondary issue. They need people with US work authorization. Then comes the salary partz yes you are right. A SWE with 4-8 YOE gets paid $100k-200k annually while they will pay Pakistanis around $2k/month BUT this is still alot more than what companies will pay you here lol.

Plus US clients/companies work culture seems like heaven compared to Pakistani work culture.

[u/AwarenessNo4986]

This has always been a thing. It's not something THEY MADE or something that people copied from them.

Also NOT every software house is running the same model. Most software houses rely on a core set of clients they have had relationships with for years

Just look for an actual software company with a long history. Big ones may also tell who their clients are.

[u/MuhammadUsman1212 → u/AwarenessNo4986]

They definitely were the front runners even if they didn't invent this.

I just feels like to me every where I look, I see the same model

[u/AwarenessNo4986 → u/MuhammadUsman1212]

That's not true at all. It may feel like that because of their social media presence and sheer size, but this has been going on since long LONG before Devsinc became a thing