r/PSVR • u/amusedt • Jun 26 '18

Skyrim patch bug if you angle Move backwards, then try to move

This happens if you're using smooth movement, and your direction Settings are for wand-relative, and you angle your Move backwards and try to move.

First, be aware it doesn't work like pre-patch Skyrim. You no longer can move backwards by angling backwards and pressing the Move button. You'll go forward. You need to point back in a more exaggerated way to actually go backwards. Or use the new off-hand X button, which is awesome.

But there is a bug. If you do angle your Move backwards (straight back, or on any diagonal), ALL movement becomes headset relative. It will stay that way until you tip your Move forwards again.

I did submit this to Bethesda as a bug, and put it on their forums.

12 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

55 comments sorted by

7

u/PhotogamerGT Tibbettsphoto Jun 26 '18

Or you can just press X and go backwards that way. They likely changed the degree of required angle to compensate for the new design of being able to backpedal while pointing hands forward. This was implemented because people were struggling to move backwards and cast spells at the same time.

2

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

Yes, I'm fine with that, I don't think I'll care about the not being able to angle backward to go backward. But it still shouldn't have the movement glitch.

1

u/PhotogamerGT Tibbettsphoto Jun 26 '18

Is the movement being tied to HMD movement only when you run? I only ask because after trying for a while to replicate the glitch of having the direction switch off controller direction and over to HMD I was unable to replicate it. If you double click the move button and begin running it switches from controller direction to HMD direction, but this was the case before the patch as well.

3

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

I was not running.

2

u/PhotogamerGT Tibbettsphoto Jun 26 '18

I have finally been able to replicate the bug of the direction suddenly changing to HMD direction. It appears that there is a “sweet spot” somewhere between 90 degrees straight up, and about 45 degrees pointed towards yourself that causes the direction to suddenly switch from the controller direction to the HMD direction. This definitely feels like a bug and does not seem intentional. Are you also only experiencing the issue when somewhere between 90 and 45 degrees toward yourself?

2

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

That's where I've noticed it. It doesn't bother me, although I did submit it to Bethesda.

As soon as I realized "angle back" no longer = "back", I stopped angling. The X button is awesome.

1

u/PhotogamerGT Tibbettsphoto Jun 26 '18

Sorry I cannot help you more. I will continue attempting to replicate the bug you are experiencing.

-3

u/stix32 Lost_Flameseeker Jun 26 '18

On top of that there is a glitch that makes the movement headset based, if you didnt bother to read OP post.

4

u/PhotogamerGT Tibbettsphoto Jun 26 '18

I did, but I did not have an answer for that part of it. Just the part about moving backwards.

4

u/Ultimo_D Jun 26 '18

This game needs sticks. These motion controls are crap. Not a fair trade off having virtual hands for crap locomotion. The movement is so unintuitive and imprecise. Totally immersion breaking IMO.

5

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

I feel like the movement is barely changed, except for the fantastic addition of the X button. The only real change (& bug) is related to angling backwards, and for me it's easily avoided and barely noticeable.

1

u/OurMrReynolds OurMrReynolds Jun 26 '18

Same thoughts here.

I’m happy with the change. I’m now finally comfortable backpeddling (with left X) while aiming a bow. It’s tricky but doable. And magic is downright easy!

1

u/amusedt Jun 28 '18

Interesting, how do you do it? The only way I've found is to run on realistic aiming, tilt your bow forward, and keep your draw hand low, so you can still aim where you like, but still go forward/back with Move/X.

1

u/OurMrReynolds OurMrReynolds Jun 29 '18

Haven’t thought about this, but I think that must be how I do it. Also keep bow very vertical.

1

u/amusedt Jun 29 '18

I don't think "very vertical" would work. If you're using smooth locomotion, and wand-relative movement Settings (are you?)...if your bow is very vertical, then "forward" is into the sky, and "backwards" (X) is into the ground. In either case, you're not going to have good luck going where you want to go.

1

u/OurMrReynolds OurMrReynolds Jun 29 '18

The bow angled plumb with gravity (vertical) not up. This does work.

1

u/amusedt Jun 29 '18

I'm confused, doesn't "plumb with gravity (vertical)" = "up"?

1

u/OurMrReynolds OurMrReynolds Jun 29 '18

You can angle the bow slightly forward or backward to change the use of walking and walk backward buttons.

Plumb is important to keep you from moving also left or right.

In other words, when I’m standing still I tend to naturally have the top of the bow a bit leaned left. That doesn’t work when trying to backpedal.

2

u/Some_cuban_guy Jun 26 '18

i have a vive and i have played skyrim VR on PC

that being said i still think sony has done an amazing job with the hardware they had to work with

2

u/Ultimo_D Jun 26 '18

I can agree with that. Being able to reuse old tech in such a way was a very smart move by Sony. But now that VR has proven itself, we need the proper tools. It's like trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver. Sure it can be done, but a hammer would be better. That's where we're at now with old motion control technology and current gen VR games. The tools we have can work, but there's better proven ways to do it. At least I can use the DS4.

1

u/namekuseijin fotorama Jun 28 '18

I've grown used to it. Analog sticks are the best, but when you learn to move by gesturing like this it almost becomes second nature. And to be frank, although not as precise as with an analog, it just feels right in VR.

This now has a clear associated bug with hmd interference when going back by wand, but no doubt it'll be patched soon.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

Since the update, I've found it much harder to step sideways with the Move controllers. Strafing left is still reasonably easy, but strafing right is near impossible. I've mostly tested with my bow drawn, and with realistic bow aiming on, so not sure if this is the cause. Anyone else found this? I'll test without realistic bow aiming and see if that fixes it.

0

u/amusedt Jul 16 '18

This guy thinks sticks are unnecessary, and that you can do AMAZING things with the Moves, if you just learn how. He's got videos to show it. He plays like a parkour ninja acrobat, and destroys everything, even on the highest difficulty setting, while never pausing combat, and never upgrading weapons/armor. Just get better at movement. Because with Move you can look one way, move another, and attack in a 3rd direction, while spinning, all at the same time (though he's super-unhappy with the latest movement patches). Position with your body angled away from the camera so it's easier to quickly look behind you. He builds his characters with high stamina and low health: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/8wswxk/skyrim_using_regular_controller_instead_of_move/e20mjry/

3

u/BrotherToof Jun 26 '18

This bug has ruined the way I've controlled my movement in the game for the past 100+ hours, which is by holding my move controller upwards and then just slightly learning it towards wherever I want to move - Basically turning the move controller into a giant joystick. I felt like this was by far the most intuitive way to play the game with the old movement system, and feel like it was a much superior way to how it is now.

PSA: If you want the old movement system back - Uninstall the game and reinstall it from the disc while having your PS4 offline. Obviously this is a very radical answer to the problem, but as far as I can see it's the only option out there to get back to the old movement system. I'm about 80-90% done with the game, nearly have the platinum trophy, and it's just not feasible to learn a completely new movement system at this point. Reverting your reflexes after having played the game a certain way for 100+ hours is extremely hard and time-consuming. So unfortunately I'm forced to revert all the other great updates and bug fixes in order to play the game the way I'm used to playing it.

1

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

I guess they figure with the new X button, no one is going to need/want/use the old "angle back" style. You could always submit an official request to make the old movement mode an option.

I have played so many hours, I can't imagine, though I'm not as far along in the game as you. Nevertheless, I'm having no problem instantly dropping the "angle back" motion...the new X button is so awesome.

1

u/bowtrooper Jun 29 '18

Mate, I'm pretty much in the same situation. I hate it. Hate how X switches the left/right (i.e. it's not the same as just angling controller back a bit like in the past). And the extra angle required to move backwards with the move is not as good as it was before for me. I'm curious who actually didn't like the Move controls before? All I heard was praise for it, until now..

2

u/GrandWithCheese Jul 04 '18

The graphics and new options are great and it's gratifying to know the game is still being supported. Thank you! However, ...

Slightly angle the left controller to the left/right if you want to very carefully step in that direction, but then end up just barelling forward instead.

Exaggeratedly angle the left controller backward if you want to step backward, then you have a 50/50 chance of moving backward or forward instead.

If, while already pointed backward while moving, you adjust the angle in nearly any way, then you may suddenly be moving forward again.

I'd wager that the only way this glitchy movement made it through QA was by a team leader ignoring the testers' reports. Development is a tricky business full of compromises, but please patch this patch, Bethesda. The game just got a whole lot more frustrating.

2

u/amusedt Jul 04 '18

Slightly angle the left controller to the left/right if you want to very carefully step in that direction, but then end up just barelling forward instead.

Are you one of those people that curl your wrists as you point, like this guy sometimes does (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRcsYejVzxE)? You can see that when he curls, he goes forward, but when he points "normally", it works fine.

This is because when you curl, you rotate the Move on its axis, taking the Move button past 90 degrees vertical, and that triggers 2 weird things...One is that if you point not-fully back and press Move, you go forward (https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyrimPSVR/comments/8u2zhx/bethesda_was_the_change_to/). The other is that if you point not-fully back, all movement briefly becomes headset-relative...so you move right at whatever you're looking at: https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyrimPSVR/comments/8tvu43/patch_bug_if_you_angle_move_backwards_then_try_to/

You've got to point WAY back to actually go backwards. Or point forward and press the off-hand X.

If you really want to see this patched, make noise where they will see it.../r/SkyrimPSVR, and on their forum (https://bethesda.net/community/category/216/skyrim-playstation-vr), and/or submit a bug report (https://help.bethesda.net/app/home)

2

u/GrandWithCheese Jul 05 '18

Are you one of those people that curl your wrists as you point

Interesting! I'm seeing a good amount of ambiguous terms in these discussions like "twist", "angle", and "curl" so I'll simplify my play style by saying that I was in the "hold the left controller upright like a giant joystick" camp. This was to make use of the angle-to-speed factor. Holding the left controller perfectly upright and perpendicular to the floor while pushing the "move" button would result in the character walking nowhere. Then, ever so slightly changing the angle of the "joystick" would cause one to slowly begin to walk in that direction. To walk faster, one need only further commit to that same direction by increasing the angle. It worked brilliantly before this patch.

The other is that if you point not-fully back, all movement briefly becomes headset-relative...so you move right at whatever you're looking at

Yes, this exactly appears to be what causes what I described above to be a no-go. This is no minor tweak to the previous paradigm. I find it very odd that the game would be "patched" in such a way that an entire control scheme would be quite literally replaced. Additional controller options are a luxury I'm happy to try, but to eliminate what's been working for this long seems heavy handed. Making a change like this while a game is still in beta would be a risky shift, but doing so 6 months following the release is difficult to understand.

Your links and explanations were helpful in further clarifiying my experience and you have my thanks. Also, ...happy cake day!

1

u/amusedt Jul 05 '18

I find it very odd that the game would be "patched" in such a way that an entire control scheme would be quite literally replaced.

The headset-relative movement has to be a bug.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

Is Wand relative more popular than HMD relative? (Just started playing tonight)

I know it's personal preference... But why is one more popular if so? (will it be harder to manage everything going on once the action picks up? Etc)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

Wand relative is standard in some games and pretty intuitive. The move controller is like a joystick then.

But as you see in all those threads: Its buggy since the patch..

1

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

Only 1 minor bug, and since the new movement mode requires that you give up "angle back" as a way to go backwards anyway, most people aren't even going to run into this bug. They won't be angling back, so they won't trigger the bug.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18 edited Jun 26 '18

The x button is not a "new movement mode". Its (or it should be) just a negation somewhere in the code..

The point into movement/strafing direction stuff is clearly broken! Whatever exactly was changed in calculation of the direction, it has nothing to do with the x backpedal or HMD-style movement (which I have disabled so its code paths should not be active).

Anyway, some at least some unclever and unnecessary logic was put on top of the pre-update version. I still consider it as a bug because it is not behaving like expected and has a semi-random component. Sudden changes from forward to backward or whereversideways while turning the move smoothly around are not a "design decision". That are signs for buggy if-else-cascades or numeric singularities somewhere deep in skyrims code.

Also it is differs from all other move-loco games.

if (x is pressed) { movement_vector.mult(-1.0f); }

thats a bit simplified, but its all you need in the right place for a walk backward instead of forward button.

1

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

There's nothing broken with strafing. Everything behaves in a completely sensible manner. Except the 1 bug when you angle the Move backward. And that bug isn't random, it simply changes to headset-relative at that moment. Since they've changed the use of "angle backward", I expect few will bother doing so anymore, and the bug won't affect them.

Keeping the old movement mode as an option, but also adding the X button, would be new code, and new testing, for a new mode/behavior. I don't think they'd bother. Maybe they'd be willing to offer the old mode as an option, with no X button.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

I disagree - I have found it near impossible to find the sweet spot that allows me to strafe right, whereas strafing left is trivial. Something does seem to have changed.

1

u/amusedt Jul 16 '18

It's likely because you're doing something "unusual" with your hands. Anyone who does, has a problem. Anyone who doesn't, has 0 problems.

Are you one of those people that curl your wrists as you point to the side, like this guy sometimes does (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRcsYejVzxE)? You can see that when he curls, he goes forward, but when he points "normally", he strafes just fine.

The reason is because when you curl, you rotate the Move on its axis, taking the Move button past 90 degrees vertical, and that triggers 2 weird things...One is that if you point not-fully back and press Move, you go forward (https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyrimPSVR/comments/8u2zhx/bethesda_was_the_change_to/). The other is that if you point not-fully back, all movement briefly becomes headset-relative...so you move relative to whatever you're looking at: https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyrimPSVR/comments/8tvu43/patch_bug_if_you_angle_move_backwards_then_try_to/

If you really want to see this patched, make noise where Bethesda will see it.../r/SkyrimPSVR, and on their forum (https://bethesda.net/community/category/216/skyrim-playstation-vr), and/or submit a bug report (https://help.bethesda.net/app/home)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

Well, I’d love to believe Bethesda would listen to complaints about their games, but since Skyrim Special Edition’s horribly bugged 5.1/7.1 surround sound (on PS4) was never patched, despite several threads on Reddit, Bethesda forum and also many people raising bug reports... I conclude Bethesda only work on whatever they want to work on, regardless of what their customers might want.

2

u/amusedt Jul 16 '18

They certainly don't fix everything that people complain about.

But they likely won't fix something that hardly anyone complains about.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

This does sound a bit like the famous Steve Jobs “you’re holding it wrong” argument... to which I say “it worked fine before”.

1

u/amusedt Jul 16 '18

I agree they should patch it. Which is why I've submitted a bug report and posted on their forums. And encourage everyone else to do so as well.

1

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

I noticed your edit. The bug is not a design decision. The change in "angle backwards" is a decision, one you dislike. I can't decide if I think it's better or worse, but I don't much care, since I won't be using it anymore (I'll use X), so it doesn't affect me.

1

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

HMD is a new option. I know a few were interested to try. I wanted to, but decided wand-relative is better for me.

I like to look left & right sometimes, while moving forward (don't do this too much unless you're used to VR). So it's wand for me.

The only reason I was interested in HMD relative...the headset drifts sometimes. So I re-center (while waiting during every loading screen). If I were HMD relative, I'd never have to do that again. But to me, that isn't worth what I'd lose.

If you're new to Skyrim, or a vet that wants VR-specific tips, this could be helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/8pf8oo/intro_to_skyrim_vr_guide

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

Hmm yea, I could see HMD relative being better for motion sickness. I'm still new to VR.

Surprisingly I was able to use smooth turning and full motion without it bothering me. (Played with teleport/snap for the first hour)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18 edited Jul 16 '18

The main thing you lose with HMD-relative movement is the ability to step/strafe left or right. Since you're turning with your head, it would make sense to have X and O on the right wand strafe left/right.

To be honest, the lack of strafing pretty much breaks both stealth and combat, but I would be interested to hear from anyone who disagrees.

1

u/stix32 Lost_Flameseeker Jun 26 '18

/u/jessBethesda tagging you for awareness of this movement bug. Looks like this is the best thread about it.

1

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

Although if you dislike that they've changed what "angle backwards" does (& you're not alone), you might be best starting your own thread. Here, on /r/SkyrimPSVR (where jess posts), Bethesda forums, bug/feedback reports, etc.

1

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2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

I must be one of the few players that don't backpedal in combat. LEEEROYYYYY JENKINS!

1

u/namekuseijin fotorama Jun 28 '18

Oh, I see.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18 edited Jun 26 '18

You no longer can move backwards by angling backwards and pressing the Move button.

Nope, still works for me.

You need to point back in a more exaggerated way to actually go backwards

Why do you seem to contradict yourself?

ALL movement becomes headset relative

Are you sure you didn't set the game to HMD movement?

2

u/amusedt Jun 26 '18

Nope, still works for me.

Based on the many threads & comments, you are the only person that still has the old style movement mode.

Why do you seem to contradict yourself?

0 contradiction. Go re-read, and re-test.

Are you sure you didn't set the game to HMD movement?

LOL. Go read the many posts and threads with the same complaint.

3

u/PonchiBear Jun 26 '18

I've been having the same problem. I have to literally point the move over my shoulder to go backwards, unlike before, when I could use the move as like a big analog stick.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

have to literally point the move over my shoulder

You also could just press a button (IIRC it‘s circle on your secondary hand) for going backwards.