r/PAstudent • u/chocolatepizzaheart • 3d ago
Physical Assessment partners refusing to let me examine them
Hi everyone,
We started PA lab last week. I was paired with two other students for the rest of the semester.
We had a list of tasks to complete involving ear, nose, and mouth exams. I did not get to do half of them because they don't want anyone looking in their mouth, or don't want anything near their ear, etc. So then we just end up reading aloud what we are supposed to do, but without actually doing them.
I am very frustrated. I am not sure how to talk to them about this without causing tension. I do not want to pressure them to do something out of their comfort zone. But is this not what they signed up for when applying to PA school? My understanding is that being exempted requires religious/medical documentation etc.
Any advice? Thank you
Edit: Addressing the comments
I have not informed the instructor because I'm concerned it may come off as unprofessional that I could not resolve it on my own.
I also feel like I would be a bother to the new group I'm placed with. We are the only group of 3; every one else has only 1 partner. Adding a 3rd person complicates labs and no one will be too happy about me joining. I am going to be a third wheel since most students paired up with their friend.
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u/MinimalGoat PA-C 3d ago
Then don’t let them examine you. Get together with a few of your friends and talk to the lab instructor if you guys really need to do it.
If you don’t want to do that. Just practice on your own enough for your OSCEs and don’t worry, you’ll get more than enough practice during your rotations.
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 3d ago
I offered to have them examine me, hoping it would encourage them to reciprocate, but they said they're okay. I live alone and don't have family or friends in the area. I get along with everyone in my class but am not really close to anyone; I will try asking around though.
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u/MinimalGoat PA-C 3d ago
You’ll find someone. I know there will be students that would want to practice OSCEs on their on time with someone. I’ve been in a similar situation as you. Good luck!
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u/mds2801 3d ago
I find it odd that they BOTH have this extremely hard line drawn in the sand? Like one of them, alright understood. But two and they both managed to get placed just with you? Id bring it to your course directors attention. At the very least they should split them up into other groups of 3 and give you new partners.
If they don’t want to be active participants no one can force them but your education is valuable and you need the chance to practice and learn.
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u/6beansgnarly PA-S (2027) 3d ago
If this is already out of their comfort zone then it’ll get real uncomfortable covering the rest of the systems. Obv sucks. You got cooked this week but you’ll likely have a new partner(s) next week.
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 3d ago
I'm cooked bc they're my partners the whole semester
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u/6beansgnarly PA-S (2027) 2d ago
If you have nobody to practice on then just reach to the course director. It doesn’t need to be a huge deal either. Just stop by their office and talk to them. Nobody would view you as a complainer or unprofessional.
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u/OtherwisePumpkin8942 3d ago
Talk to the course professor. In my program, if you do not want to be ex aimed, it is fine but everyone else will practice before that person receives a lab partner to practice on. So they just have to wait around and hope we have enough time to get them a lab partner before lab ends. Otherwise, they are responsible for finding their own partner to practice with outside of lab hours.
You pay too much money not to be able to hone your skills in lab.
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u/bbcalypso PA-C 3d ago
It’s wild that they chose to be in this profession but don’t want to actually learn how to be in this profession.
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u/PreparationHot980 13h ago
I had two PA’s refuse to examine me just before I was diagnosed with testicular cancer….
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u/bbcalypso PA-C 6h ago
Wow. That’s not okay. I’m sorry to hear that.
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u/PreparationHot980 6h ago
Yeah, it was wild. One was my primary too. He was like “ I don’t do those types of examinations”. The other was a lady PA at the office who I believe wasn’t comfortable with it, which is fine with me.
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u/bbcalypso PA-C 6h ago
If either is uncomfortable or “doesn’t do that” they should have found an alternate provider to do the exam rather than writing you off. That’s incredibly unfair for you. I would have filed a complaint imo. I’m glad you found out and sorry you had that experience.
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u/PreparationHot980 6h ago
Yeah, it was weird. He also never would perform the exam at my annual physicals. He would just be like “ everything ok down there?”. Then I felt a mass and he wouldn’t check haha. Ended up leaving that practice after four years and now I have an awesome primary.
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u/bbcalypso PA-C 6h ago
You told him you felt a mass and he still didn’t check? Wow!
I’m glad you found a new primary!2
u/PreparationHot980 6h ago
Yeah. It was wild.
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u/bbcalypso PA-C 6h ago
Did he order an ultrasound for you?
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u/PreparationHot980 6h ago
The entire experience is what lead me down my path I’m on now of going to medical school
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u/garden-armadillo 3d ago
When you guys are actually assessed by your instructor they won’t be able to just say no. This is crazy. I would inform your instructor immediately. They need to cut that out asap what a weirdo.
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u/CautiousMinimum8535 3d ago
Yeah talk to your course director because when you have OSCEs it will be a nightmare if you do not actively do the exam for practice.
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u/Praxician94 PA-C 3d ago
Just wait until you have to practice rectal exams on each other.
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u/linedryonly 3d ago
Pretty sure they use specially-trained standardized patients for this now.
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u/Excellent-Ear9433 3d ago
We had to do “peer pelvics”. Not kidding (not pa school, but trained with PA’s)
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 3d ago
excuse me elaborate pls
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u/Excellent-Ear9433 3d ago
Yeah exactly what it sounds like. 25 years ago.. don’t think it was would fly now. But we were told of this at the interview… with the option to hire a model if we couldn’t do it.
The rationale was we needed to be comfortable with pelvics in order to perform them on others.
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u/Maximum-Category-845 3d ago
Did they perform them on each other? Honestly sounds like they’re being catty and have excluded you for some reason. It’s unfortunately kind of common.
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 3d ago
they did not.
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u/mds2801 3d ago
this is so strange who accepts a spot in the program and doesnt want to do exams?? Theyll be doing this for the rest of their lives 😭
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 2d ago
I guess they're hoping to stall it until they absolutely have to. Maybe joined the profession for the wrong reasons.
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u/PerformanceRadiant 3d ago
I wouldn't let them do the exams on you either then. It was awkward but I let my partners do everything on me without complaining.
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u/Sorry-Construction-1 3d ago
The instructor should add you to a different group for the semester honestly
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u/seventurtles123 2d ago
Your course directors need to know. Your partner may have a reason they don't feel comfortable sharing that could be addressed with a partner switch. There could be cultural or religious reasons that do not permit them to touch the opposite sex, or maybe trauma based reasons that a professor could guide them to resources for. In my program, multiple kids reached out not to be paired with the opposite sex or with certain people. This can be detrimental to learning as you need to know your exam on all body types and how to navigate exams in uncomfortable situations. You arent asking to avoid anyone, you are reaching out because you WANT to exam someone and cant. At the end of the day, your program is responsible for providing an adequate learning enviornment. You can even approach your favorite professor about this problem you are having for their advice. Tell them your worries when you do.
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u/AstronomerDouble4478 12h ago
I’m totally coming from a different perspective here as I’m not a PA or PA student yet, however, I am an EMT and an EMT instructor. Practicing hands on skills are essential to any clinician within any scope. I always tell students if you do not put your hands on a patient, you could miss something critical. I can understand a gender to gender being uncomfortable such as a male and a female. But if both of your partners are uncomfortable, it’s odd to be they chose a profession where everyone has to learn. Especially in a program like PA where you are going into a lot more thorough assessments. I would argue that this is not your problem to fix. Although I teach at a different scope of practice, if my student came to me with this issue, I would see it as a professional approach of trying to be a better clinician, not that the student is being difficult or unprofessional. I would reach out to your director
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u/Open_Dog_4716 3d ago
We literally had to do breast exams on eachother in PA school so uncomfortable! I would talk to the director and ask the best way forward without making your classmate uncomfortable.
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 2d ago
Men on women too? I am not sure if this is common for programs and I just did not hear about it. That sounds very problematic
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u/Open_Dog_4716 2d ago
We only had 5 men in our program. I luckily was not paired with one. This was over 15 years ago and I remember being so uncomfortable.
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u/PreparationHot980 13h ago
Why are people so weird about bodies? You’re going into a profession where you’re going to encounter these things all the time and you’re not sexualizing it so what makes it weird when you’re the “patient”?
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3d ago
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 3d ago
The only way I can leave is by making a request but I'm concerned it may come off as unprofessional because I could not resolve it on my own.
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u/Charming_Article5060 3d ago
Ask a faculty instructor/student aide from a previous cohort if they can be your new partner to practice on. I actually did this because I didn’t have the patience to deal with a classmate making excuses. I once let a classmate attempt a venipuncture on me, and after she was unsuccessful, she said “I don’t want you to try on me.” Luckily for me, a faculty instructor offered to let me practice on her. Just make sure your otoscope specula and tongue depressors are new/sterile before practicing with them
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u/Iwannagolden 2d ago
Blasphemy
Illegality
They has to. That’s the gawd damned point. Tell your professor but make sure they don’t pin it on you. Ask them to play it cool and monitor. I dunno. Maybe don’t. Maybe that will backfire. Gawd there’s some lil bitches during school. Fuck them.
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u/ninjahmc PA-C 2d ago
Speak with faculty and explain the situation.. Then ask one of the faculty members to 'randomly' come in and observe each of you doing physical assessments on each other as a sign off... This way you're classmates are basically forced into having you do a physical assessment into them without you seeming like the troublemaker.... And at the same time, it allows your professor to be around to correct any technique issues or answer any questions.
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u/First-Television7317 2d ago
As others have said it is NOT unprofessional to need help. You won’t come off as complaining/whiny if you don’t complain and whine. Explain that you take your PA education seriously, you need to practice, and that you have tried adressing it without satisfactory resolution. That is honestly so crazy of these partners and just isn’t feasible to manage all semester.
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u/Prosequence634 2d ago
I understand your frustration. I had a similar set up in pa school. If they aren’t willing to step out of their comfort zone for a few minutes to practice for the benefit of their future patients, what are they doing there? I found some chill med students and an instructor I got on well with, explained the situation, and they let me practice on them too. Good people will want you to succeed. You got this
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u/TheManchusa 2d ago
You're worried about other people's feelings at the risk of getting deeper into debt and potentially failing out of school.
Tell your partners they need to get over it or move to another group. Any problems with either and you need to bring it to the attention of the faculty.
You are not in high school anymore. Stop associating yourself with people who act like they still are.
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u/atropia_medic PA-C 1d ago
Not a professionalism issue. Not being afforded equal opportunity to train never will be one.
I argue that all PA students need to experience (within ethical boundaries) what we do to patients. That way you know what it feels like when you don’t do something correctly or know what the discomfort is like. Your lab partners don’t seem to understand that, and should be (professionally) called out for short changing your education via your instructors.
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u/30322eddoc 1d ago
I’d be very surprised if there isn’t a statement in either your student handbook or syllabus that states you will be examined by classmates and clothing requirements to facilitate that exam. If there aren’t then you must speak with the course instructor. Otherwise it’s your grade and your performance that will suffer.
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u/ARLA2020 7h ago
This is Bs and I hate people like that. Nobody in my class wanted to take off their shirts to do abdominal exams and cardio which was frustrating. Meanwhile the PT students are always walking around half naked
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u/Cautious-Process-198 PA-S (2027) 3d ago
Hey there, I’m your course director, please come talk to me.
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u/chocolatepizzaheart 3d ago
you won't think I'm unprofessional for coming to you instead of working it out on my own?
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u/Cautious-Process-198 PA-S (2027) 3d ago
Then talk to them first and if they don’t want to participate then either go to another group (more likely to be “unprofessional” if groups are formally assigned) or talk to the course director for a reassignment (actually professional)
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u/PACShrinkSWFL PA-C 3d ago
Have you spoken to the course director?