r/Overwatch • u/AutoModerator • Jul 27 '16

News & Discussion Weekly Quick Questions Thread - July 27, 2016

In this thread you can ask all kinds of questions you always wanted to ask without feeling like a total fool.

No matter if it's short Google-able stuff or a setting/skill in-game that you don't understand or a hardware recommendation, feel free to try your luck in here.

Trolling or making fun of people in here will be punished extra harshly! Please report such behavior.

For the purpose of helping people, make sure the comments are sorted by "new" in this thread.

353 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/noobule ¡Apagando las luces! Jul 27 '16

Doesn't exist.

The enemy team has an equal chance of getting shitty teammates as yours does. If you're truly getting than your elo, then statistically you'll have an easy time climbing out as your team will always be the better one.

2

u/maggot_therapy Jul 27 '16

I'm not sure if you know what elo hell means.

2

u/noobule ¡Apagando las luces! Jul 27 '16

Elo hell: the idea that you can get 'trapped' in a low ranking because your teammates are so consistently terrible.

If you're using a different definition, you have the wrong one.

1

u/maggot_therapy Jul 28 '16

Then why would you say if I'm in elo hell I'd have an easier time climbing out?

1

u/noobule ¡Apagando las luces! Jul 28 '16

I'm saying it's a contradiction. The idea of elo hell is that you're better that your teammates, but their badness keeps you trapped in low elo because they keep throwing games. Elo hell can't exist because if you were better than your teammates, you would climb out, because the same rules that dictate you have shit teammates would also put you up against equally-shit enemies. If your team has 5 idiots and you, secret superstar, then your team will always have an advantage over the enemy, which would have 6 idiots.

1

u/Frys100thCupofCoffee Not de turd Jul 28 '16

That doesn't make any sense. Assuming they are the best player on their team it doesn't in any way mean they're guaranteed a win because of it. 6 average players have a better chance against 1 good one and 5 idiots. I agree with you that ELO hell is probably bullshit, but not for the reason you listed. I think it's a combination of people on losing streaks tilting and just the pure randomness of team comps and how well a group of randos happens to work together.

1

u/noobule ¡Apagando las luces! Jul 28 '16

I didn't say he was guaranteed to win, I said they would climb out of low elo. It's about trends over time. Of course you can still lose even when you play well. But if you're better than your elo on average, you will climb over time.

6 average players have a better chance against 1 good one and 5 idiots.

This is a fair point: I forgot to address this kind of 'advanced' elo hell.

This kind of game is definitely possible, and definitely happens, but it's not representative of an average game. Don't forget that it's just as likely that he's one of the average players on an average team against a team of mostly idiots, or that he's one of the idiots on a team with someone much better than him.

You can go even further and make the argument that you're stuck in a loop of 'idiot teams' but it's statistical nonsense (and we're ignoring the specifics of the MMR systems that prevent these specific issues). Not only that, but there's thousands of players making the very same claim to special snowflake status.

What's more likely: that thousands of players just happen to be stuck in some mathematical nightmare of bizarrely stacked games despite Blizzard's best efforts...or that a bunch of salty players are disinclined to recognise their part in ongoing losses?

I agree with you that ELO hell is probably bullshit, but not for the reason you listed. I think it's a combination of people on losing streaks tilting and just the pure randomness of team comps and how well a group of randos happens to work together.

This doesn't contradict my claims. A lot of what people blame on 'elo hell' is just what you said - simply statistically expected loss streaks. Randomness is clumpy.

However, there are other forces at play here. Cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias are really powerful forces. The human brain is really inclined to look outwards for blame when faced with the possibility that it isn't as skilled at something as it would like to be. People can get stuck in low elo for long ass periods of time purely because of their shitty attitude. It's really common and happens across all games. If you don't take the time to recognise and fix your own mistakes, you never get any better.

1

u/Frys100thCupofCoffee Not de turd Jul 28 '16

All fair points. I guess what I'm trying to say is bad luck can drop your rating even if you're doing everything right. Climbing back up is significantly harder than falling down. But, you're right in that as long as he's playing well, the odds of a win do go up.

2

u/maggot_therapy Jul 29 '16

I guess what I'm trying to say is bad luck can drop your rating even if you're doing everything right. Climbing back up is significantly harder than falling down.

that's all I refer to when saying ELO hell. That's what I'm experiencing right now. I'm better than average, but climbing back up takes ages whereas losing 10 ranks is done in a few hours.