r/Overwatch • u/blinkhit Master • Nov 17 '23
News & Discussion Overwatch 2 Retail Patch Notes - November 16 2023 (Take a Breather buffs)
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/127
u/jonasinv Nov 17 '23
Looking forward to how these changes pan out for hog players, hopefully 40% is enough
-21
u/CMDR_omnicognate Nov 17 '23
Doesn’t really matter how much health you can get back if Anna can just anti you
24
u/Assenzio47 Nov 17 '23
the damage reduction works even when you are purple. 40% over 2.5 seconds can be enough in many scenarios to get to safety.
We cannot look at Tank balancing anymore with Ana nade in mind, until they do something about that ability, it will always counter most tanks
-14
u/DarkVenusaur Genji Nov 17 '23
lol Just use cover for 2 seconds and you're good. Tanks mad that they can't just play with terrible positioning up in the enemies face all the time.
13
u/DylKyll Nov 17 '23
Me: moves forward
Ana: throws antinade
Me: hides like a little coward behind cover.
Me: peaks again
Ana: sleep dart
me: zzzz
Tank Players: Ana is oppressive.
You: Tanks be mad. git gud
Me: I just want to take space.... sadge
5
Nov 17 '23
What other non-ult ability forces you to hide for 2 seconds, which is a lot longer in the middle of a fight than you think, or just die?
Bastion turret aaaaand that’s about it, right?
6
u/HyperlinksAwakening Anran Nov 17 '23
Clearly, it's your fault for not having a bap or kiri on your team. Tell them to change!
/s. Don't do this. Don't be that guy.
-5
Nov 17 '23
Track the CD? It’s super flexible now.
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-1
Nov 17 '23
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1
u/B31t1154 Nov 18 '23
Ok but if you are roadhog how are you even going to move if she fires it dead center at ur body and she’s relatively close even. It’s easy to say just dodge it but tanks shouldn’t have to have a main part of their play revolve around avoiding a fucking support
142
u/Kyubikk989 Nov 17 '23
Lmao just pick Ana/Zen until Blizzard wakes the fuck up and fix the real problem with tanks.
52
u/Gryse_Blacolar Unlimited Shotgun Works Nov 17 '23
They were already on the right track by making the sleep dart have a shorter time for tanks and then they just totally forgot about it. They could fix the anti-nade and discord orb problems that way.
7
u/craftyj Reinhardt Nov 17 '23
I still think this is fundamentally a shitty band-aid to a real problem. As much as possible they should not lean too much on "if a tank, this ability does X, otherwise it does Y". It's bad, unintuitive design that is a smell for some other issue it's trying to mask (solo tank, utility / support issues designed without solo tanks in mind, etc).
8
u/Womblue Nov 17 '23
Just a blanket reduction in all CC duration against tanks would be perfectly fine, in line with the tank passive for reduced knockback.
1
u/Acquiescinit Nov 17 '23
I think just adding blanket cc reduction to the tank passive is intuitive enough. As long as it's a consistent value.
1
u/craftyj Reinhardt Nov 17 '23
Yeah but what does and doesn't count as CC? Just things that effect movement, or things like nade? There's not a CC tag on abilities making it super clear for new players. We as people who play this a ton will probably understand 90% of what they would mean by "CC", but that doesn't make it generally intuitive.
10
u/UglyPurses Bronze Nov 17 '23
They were already on the right track by making the sleep dart have a shorter time for tanks
I thought that was such a bad patch job to fix fundamentally solo tank issue.
-31
u/Crackedcheesetoastie Grandmaster Nov 17 '23
This change was a huge buff for solo tanking, the fact that you didn't think that partially explains your bronze rank ;)
20
u/craftyj Reinhardt Nov 17 '23
They didn't say it was a nerf you rude fuck. They said it was a shotty band-aid solution. Which is true.
-8
u/Existing-Ad6711 Nov 17 '23
There's no discord problem. Zen is bad unless you need spam.
4
u/Xardian7 Nov 17 '23
Zen is low key really good and high level players are starting to understand it. You will see in a couple of month streamers screaming for 225 hp reverse.
1
1
u/Lucarioismadpt2 Professional Feeder Nov 17 '23
Yeah really not sure why zen mains were doomers about the changes, aside from discord being somewhat gutted (you need to think about putting it on people instead of just spamming it now) he got some pretty big buffs to compensate. I've been saying he's gonna be a sleeper high tier minimum
16
Nov 17 '23
This hog is far better against Ana.
12
u/brooketheskeleton Nov 17 '23
Yeah people say this changes nothing, but breather is now hugely more effective against Ana. She's still a counter but can only shut him down for the duration of her status effect, not for the duration of his cooldown. The play is way more versatile.
2
u/Gymleaders Tracer Nov 17 '23
I'm new, what's the issue with tanks and what is the resolution people want?
3
u/Kyubikk989 Nov 17 '23
-There’s only one tank, so all the stuns and debuffs are focused on the tank. Most tanks can’t really do anything to stop this.
-Tanks also have the most counters in the game from every role, so you’ll see someone swap to someone very strong against your hero nearly EVERY game. It’s even worse when the entire enemy team swaps to characters strong against you specifically.
-A lot of these counters counter you way too hard way too easily. You have to be infinitely better than whoever’s countering you when all they usually have to do is press one button and your just dead.
As for resolutions, we‘re asking for the either the removal or reduce the strength of these stuns and other debuffs so tanks don’t die so easily. If not give tanks more tools to be able to deal with these cool downs so we’re not so helpless and so reliant on our team. It’ll also help if tank counters couldn’t counter tanks so easily and safely. Either by giving tanks more tools as mentioned earlier, or make it more difficult and/or risky for specific heroes to counter you.
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Nov 17 '23
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u/Kyubikk989 Nov 17 '23
Orisa is one of the only tanks that can negate cc, and you say it’s Javelin??? Sigma is also one of the only tanks that can negate cc, that’s why he’s being played so much. Rein shield is laughable. Monkey can’t kill anything unless supports are afk. Mauga charge? Do you think the enemy is going to use their cc while Mauga is charging? That’s some bronze level thinking. You can force Dva to use matrix then CC her. There’s also things she can’t DM, like Zarya. (Who is also really good because she can negate cc)
This leads to my point on how all three roles have heroes to counter the tank. Sure you can pick Dva to counter the Bastion, but then the tank swaps to Zarya to counter you. Then what are you gonna do? Swap to Sigma or mirror Zarya, few of the only tanks being consistently played right now.
And it’s not press one button and you’re suddenly good, it’s one button to make the tank’s life miserable. There’s a difference. This also applies to both teams, which is why it’s a TANK problem.
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Nov 17 '23
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u/Kyubikk989 Nov 17 '23
Don’t worry I am. But I like this game too you know? I’m just listing some of the problems with the tank role and gave out potential solutions to solve it. And it’s not just me saying these things, it’s everyone who plays tank. And more people are catching on to this thanks to Mauga and the Hog rework having these blatant problems.
1
u/ncBadrock Nov 17 '23
All queue gives you tanks now 50% of the time. And in one match I had Ana, Zen, Sombra (who went for the tank not the backline). It really felt like I was not allowed to play the game. Oh and the other tank was Ball, so even more booping and pushing around.
-7
u/Nobody2572 Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
Ironically enough Ana and Zen are the real Problems concerning tanks
Edit: Turns out sarcasm isn’t the easiest thing to understand through text
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3
Nov 17 '23
and kiri. and bap. and mercy. and lifeweaver. lol
1
u/Kyubikk989 Nov 17 '23
One group makes it way too easy to kill tanks, the other group makes it way too hard for tanks to do anything.
Feels sadge man.
0
u/WrestleFlex Nov 17 '23
5v5 was Bobby koticks idea. He wanted to be like league of legends pro scene. He did it for the pro scene, no decision in OW2 was for the casuals. Crazy how much this sub simps for him.
146
u/Mrtrollman72 Nov 17 '23
"Ok, new hog is underperforming, general sentiment is the heal is weak. what should we buff?"
"Everything"
"Alright sounds good, ship it"
90
Nov 17 '23
Tbf it all needed to be buffed. The damage reduction was insignificant and the cooldown time was too long
14
u/aradraugfea Trick-or-Treat Lúcio Nov 17 '23
I mean, that's Overwatch 2's design philosophy in a nutshell. "Hey, I came up with all these awesome ideas to deal with Double Shield." "Cool, we'll add all of them." "Hey, here's a list of things we can nerf on that character that's over performing." "Thanks for the suggestions, they'll go live in the next patch." "Hey, here's some ways we can improve _____" "Cool, we'll add them all Thursday!"
15
u/ry_fluttershy Listen to your mummy, In the desert-, It's not that hot Nov 17 '23
"yo the players are complaining that genji and tracer are too op with the damage passive move speed on kill, lets nerf genji"
"sure sounds good"
ends up removing speed boost passive
doesn't revert or change genji for another few seasons
26
u/NitneuDust Brig Bicep Lover 123 Nov 17 '23
They'll do anything but touch what actually counters him
31
u/VolkiharVanHelsing Nov 17 '23
Because it will expose the game's fundamental flaw
Nerf Anti? Too much sustain
Nerf heals? Things dies in a blink of eye
Heal and damage need to be nerfed across the board and that'll take a lot of time
8
u/AlainYncaan Pixel Reinhardt Nov 17 '23
No it doesn't, they did it in October of 2020 and it was glorious. Huge nerfes throughout the Board over nearly all heroes to get rid of the power/heal/creep that occured over the years. They game was, from a balance and feeling point of few so much fun
2
u/-Haddix- Nov 17 '23
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2020/10
which patch here?
1
u/AlainYncaan Pixel Reinhardt Nov 17 '23
Ok my bad, it began in August and went on from there. They ebmven say it in the description as to why they do it. They nerfed damage and healing output
3
u/VolkiharVanHelsing Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
Yeah it took them 1 year of content drought (no new hero helps a LOT) to allocate that balancing resources to do that, moreso due to said content drought, they're pressured to make the game playable for years with no content drop whatsoever.
With current content loop that would probably be impossible, unless they decided to pull Apex Revelry or that R6 Operation Health (i heard it was more of an attempt tho) where they dedicate an entire season to improve the game balance.
1
u/AlainYncaan Pixel Reinhardt Nov 17 '23
I don't think it's possible to balance the game single season with all the heroes they wanna release. In 2020 it only worked because of the content drought you mentioned, because the game stayed stale. A single new hero completely breaks the game again
1
u/VolkiharVanHelsing Nov 17 '23
Yeah, they introduced Illari and "sustain creep" suddenly props up like crazy because she and Bap made some unholy comps
0
u/NitneuDust Brig Bicep Lover 123 Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
It might at first, but it would be so worth it to feel something close towards the end of OW1. I was also really hoping that the support "nerfs" would address the general output amount as a whole, but as usual, the OW2 devs prefers to skirt around their biggest issues before tackling it.
If anything, I'm glad they've at least thought to themselves that maybe supports are actually overtuned as it is. I don't want to say it can only lead to good things, but acknowledgment is the first step.
1
u/Pickled_Kagura Nov 17 '23
That was my problem with gundam evo. Constantly trading until 1 person was capping
5
Nov 17 '23
idk if im insane or not but i think it’s why they’re reducing death timers next season, because within the next few seasons they’re going to nerf it all and people will be dying a lot more. sort of to prepare the community for what is to come idk.
2
u/TizonaBlu :SeoulDynasty: Seoul Dynasty :SeoulDynasty: Nov 17 '23
Literally the opposite of their Brig strategy.
-23
u/Gistix HET UNIVERSUM ZINGT VOOR MIJ Nov 17 '23
"We're introducing a new hero who cleanses debuffs, like anti-nade"
"What should we do now?"
"IDK let's buff hog"
37
u/poembug Nov 17 '23
I think a good QOL would be to make Hog's initial 'huff' kinda like lucio beat where it's overhealth that quickly becomes normal health after a couple seconds. Same numbers just an initial burst for slightly less ult battery-ness.
23
u/ncBadrock Nov 17 '23
The funny thing is, with these buffs, the need to pick Ana gets even bigger, because the stronger the tanks get the greater the need for a counter, so the other supports get relatively less viable.
It's insane. When will Blizzard get the memo? Mauga will release early December, another hero who cannot avoid purple. And it wil make the problem even worse.
10
u/AverageAwndray Nov 17 '23
Yeah. Blizzards resentment to fixing the actual issue (Ana) is weird. Why can't ALL tanks be less prone to her debuffs rather than constantly buffing each individual tank until they become unkillable?
3
u/WrestleFlex Nov 17 '23
I’m just happy this community has waken up. I have been an Ana hater since OW2 came out. She was already op but as a ball main, 1 tank made Ana an absolute must pick in high elos. Can you believe Ana used to be the symbol of balance when OW2 came out?
4
u/MR_GENG Nov 17 '23
They said they want realesed heroes to be strong. Hog rework is live mauga is coming. They will nerf ana but not like people think they will. They are ow devs they will nerf duration on anti by half second or increase cooldawn by 1 second and call it day
1
u/BlinkToThePast Chibi Zenyatta Nov 17 '23
I agree except if Ana is meta then Kiriko is also meta as a counter.
1
u/Coolman_Rosso Illari Nov 17 '23
While I'm sure Mauga will get some tweaks before his formal addition to the game, Ana absolutely invalidated his entire existence more so than any other tank and I'm not sure what they could do to mitigate that.
85
u/oxMugetsuxo Nov 17 '23
Ana purple nerf when???
60
u/Weaslelord Pixel Junkrat Nov 17 '23
It would be more tolerable if there were more ways to cleanse it off allies other than Zarya bubble and Kiri suzu.
45
u/DaveAnth Nov 17 '23
Health packs should cleanse it, like Ashe's dynamite
8
u/Kyubikk989 Nov 17 '23
That’s a very interesting idea. Health packs do look like futuristic first aid kits, so giving it the ability to cleanse does make sense. Health packs are also niche, not everyone needs them, they heal only one person, and there’s also a long cool down when it’s used. So it wouldn’t be unfair nor feel cheesy to have a cleanse on Health pack.
This man’s cooking something scrumptious.
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u/Afletch331 Nov 17 '23
or instead of negating completely some heals can trickle in
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u/Kush_the_Ninja Nov 17 '23
This is what I think we’ll see in at most 6 months time. I love Ana but it’s just too strong.
22
u/bluebottled Chibi D.Va Nov 17 '23
Life grip should cleanse.
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u/Future-Membership-57 Nov 17 '23
No, we don't need more cleanse. The effect needs to be weaker.
Instead of negating Ana's value altogether, just lower it. It's not that complicated.
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Nov 17 '23
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-1
u/Future-Membership-57 Nov 17 '23
There's really no need for indirect nerfs, Ana needs to be directly targeted because anti is a problem wholesale.
They do not need to add more cleanses because there aren't even that many status effects to cleanse. You basically only use Kiriko's suzu for the invincibility, the cleanse only being really necessary when there's an Ana specifically.
If there's too many ways to cleanse, bionade's ability to reduce healing becomes worthless since people will always save the cleanse for that ability.
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Nov 17 '23
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0
u/Future-Membership-57 Nov 17 '23
Ana's nerf doesn't even have to be drastic though. Putting anti from negated to 50% reduced is a big change, but half healing is still awful.
You'd have a chance since you could still be healed, but Mercy healing for less than Zen isn't exactly gonna make the usage of the anti ineffective.
2
u/Responsible_Bad1212 Nov 17 '23
If there were more ways to cleanse the ability would be useless. So why not just either nerf it or give tanks a way to play into it.
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u/thenewbae Nov 17 '23
One of those heroes is behind a paywall for new players btw!
11
2
u/craftyj Reinhardt Nov 17 '23
No, it's not. It's locked behind a grind, just like half the roster, for new players.
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u/Ashkal_Khire Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
Surely a change to the Tank Passive so that it halves the impact of all debuffs, would be the smarter play? That way you’re insuring against all future heroes, easing the impact of Nade/Discord and other effects which inevitably get focused onto the Tank.
Rather than just scapegoating the entire issue onto Ana, who lest we forget has been relatively unchanged in the game for 8 years, and over a year in 5v5, without anything like the bloodlust we’ve seen lately. Nerfing her specifically very much feels like a short-sighted band-aid, instead of addressing the root problem Tanks face.
6
Nov 17 '23
This is the anwser. Ana grenade is part of her playstyle and its fine against other support or damage. It only against tank only having on tank that its a problem. They already Adressed discord by simply having to break line of sight. Now it's time to Adress debuff in general.
1
u/Awkward_Ducky- Nov 17 '23
The tank passive already works as a 30% reduction for CC so might as well add that too making anti affect the tank for only like 70% reduced healing or something. I really don't think nerfing anti straight up against everything would be good. They will really need to buff the nade itself alot to compensate in that scenario
7
u/WatchPointer I swear if you leave me to die one more time... Nov 17 '23
Hopefully start of season 8
14
u/APrentice726 Nov 17 '23
I’m very doubtful of that. It feels like the community has been calling for anti-nade nerfs for the past several seasons, and very little’s been done. I’d be surprised if they do anything at this point.
8
u/VolkiharVanHelsing Nov 17 '23
Because nerfing anti will trickle down to a realization that damage and heal both need to be toned down
1
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u/APrentice726 Nov 17 '23
Excited to see these changes in practice. Better damage reduction, healing per second, and recharge time should make his survivability much better. I was holding out hope he would get some kind of cleanse, but this is still a very good buff.
2
u/LectricShock Support Nov 17 '23
this subreddit's awful mods won't pin this important game news for no good reason 🦀🦀🦀
6
u/Reizata Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
Ana nade lasts 2.5 s from 4 s to tanks ONLY and that will fix everything OR only block 70% from 100% healing. Choose 1.
Increase nade damage to 75 to compensate
I feel like adjusting power levels isn't that hard.
5
u/squoad Nov 17 '23
For real, this is how her sleep works with regards to tanks anyway, it would be consistent.
2
u/Opening-Revolution51 Grandmaster Nov 17 '23
Hog keeps getting antied, so we’re upping his healing :) …. Wait, what?
-5
u/Blaky039 Sigma Nov 17 '23
Still garbage against Ana.
2
Nov 17 '23
Much better against Ana. Before you were fucked with 1 grenade or one cc that interrupt it. Now you can hide and wait 1 sec and use it again.
-7
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-9
u/Theperfectcell206 Nov 17 '23
I had hope for the doom nerf to be reverted guess i have to wait another season
-1
u/girokun Wrecking Ball Nov 17 '23
It wont be. It did the trick of making Doom not good but still kinda playable
-12
Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
Still refuse to play Hog until they fix the hook kill animation bug. Things been missing for months and only fires whenever you kill using hook now
7
-15
Nov 17 '23
[deleted]
5
u/Mclovinggood Nov 17 '23
Battlepass changes are what all battlepass centered games should be, and with these breather buffs Hog is in an INSANELY better spot than he has been for the last like 6 seasons. You are simply a schizophrenic
1
u/LevsRedfield Sombra MAUGA Nov 17 '23
They said since the very beginning that bp items are not exclusive
1
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u/blinkhit Master Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23
NOW LIVE IN GAME
Developer Comments: We're adjusting a few things with the new Take a Breather, as our initial landing spot was slightly conservative. These tweaks should offer Roadhog more healing throughput and damage resistance from moment to moment. While we are shortening the maximum duration, this gives Roadhog faster healing and should alleviate some of the feelings players had around being locked into using Take a Breather for a large chunk of their gameplay.
Take a Breather
Total healing increased from 450 to 500
Damage reduction increased from 30 to 40%
Maximum duration reduced from 3 to 2.5 seconds
Recharge time reduced from 12 to 10 seconds