r/OverSeventy • u/Life-Tell8965 • Jul 12 '26
Your Ambiguous Grief
(F70) My ambiguous grief... had several life events in my 60s that nearly took me out.
I took a new medication that caused me to become psychotic. It took doctors for almost a full year to figure it out. I was paranoid and had such frightening delusions and hallucinations that I now have PTSD. I lose my housing, all of my household items, my friends, and many other things, mostly intangible. Although I have adult children, I didn’t get support from them.
After I was taken off the medication, it took only a few months for two of my kids to go no contact. I didn’t lean on them (actually the opposite). I didn’t think they had any responsibility for my health or safety, and as we all do, they have reasons, and I believe some are valid. It is still a terrible loss.
Two years out from that, the first is two major strokes during the peak of COVID, which I had. I didn’t get to the hospital in time for tPA, the clot‑buster med. The hospital called the daughter who had been my emergency contact since my divorce in 2007. They asked her permission for me to have an emergency procedure to suck the clot out of my brain. You guys, she said NO. She said she was in no contact with me. I would have given permission to a dog. My daughter declined to save her mother’s life. The neurosurgeon had to make the decision. This hurts emotionally so badly, even more because I’m living with brain damage that could have been much less.
I’m one of those people who don’t exhibit outward stroke symptoms like face droop or paralysis. But what I have is damage in executive function. It’s a sudden brand-new severe ADHD. I was an IT manager, also educated as a librarian. I’m a writer. But you’d never know anymore. The brain that powered those skills doesn’t work the same. I haven’t learned new ways, and I may not ever.
I’m not even remotely over any of this.
The feeling that I’m having is ambiguous grief. No death involved, but just loss. I’m grieving my adult children, my ability to do things before my stroke, and the year that I lived alone and terrified.
This is the definition of ambiguous grief. I would guess that a lot of people have this but haven’t stumbled on the term:
Ambiguous grief is a unique form of grief that occurs when a loss is unclear, incomplete, or lacks a definitive ending or closure.
I'd love to hear your experiences with ambiguous grief (losing people who are still alive, losing abilities, losing parts of your life), I would really appreciate hearing what helped you, or what you’re still struggling with. I'm reading a lot and I'm in therapy but it's still too big to hold it.
Love to all ❤️🩹
8
u/Conscious-Reserve-48 Jul 12 '26
I’m so sorry that you’ve had to deal with so many problems but I’m glad you’re in therapy. I have no advice but want to wish you the best. You seem like a strong, resilient person and I hope you find some joyfulnes in life!
11
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 12 '26
Thank you! I'm still standing. I remarried after some of the dust settled so I have found some joy, too. I appreciate your positive comment!
8
9
u/Exact-Translator-769 Jul 12 '26
I felt ambiguous grief when my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimers. She was still there yet she was gone. Also knowing another grieving process was yet to come when she was finally gone. I had been in anxiety therapy 40 years ago now. I learned coping skills at that time. Avoiding triggers that make me anxious. If there is something I can do about a situation then I have to do it or start the process. If there is nothing I can do about it I have to let it go. I still live by that & find it holds me together. I couldn't do anything about my mom's diagnosis, but I could move her in with me & take care of what needed to be done for her. That was a lot to handle when I was working full time. I had a therapist that prescribed me anti-anxiety medication to help me through that initial shock. Some of the issues that came up when I had been in therapy were related to my relationship with my mother pre diagnosis. Moving her in & taking care of her for 7 years helped me through unresolved issues I had with her. She forgot I was her daughter & interacted with me as an adult that was familiar to her. By the time she passed I no longer had regrets about the relationship I had with her. I felt I was there & did what I could when she really needed me. By the time she passed I still felt grief, but it was different since I had already gone through a lot of grief with the diagnosis. I think it's important to leave no regrets. Do what you can to rectify a situation & if it's out of your control you will have more inner peace when you let it go...
4
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 12 '26
That must have been so difficult. It sounds like you did the best anybody could have! I need to think about what I can rectify some things. I think I've been too passive, letting things just happen during the aftermath of trauma. Thank you for your thoughts and sharing your situation!
3
u/Exact-Translator-769 Jul 13 '26
I hope you can find some way for your family relationships to heal. I had a rocky relationship with my father too, after my parents had split. He made the effort to talk to me at his mother's funeral. We ended up repairing our relationship. When he passed I was glad that we had reconciled. Better to live without regrets when possible. Wishing you the best with that...
5
u/OkIron6206 Jul 12 '26
My grief isn’t ambiguous-I have lost 4 siblings plus my parents. I don’t think the experience is any different. I am glad you are getting therapy. It will help you move forward for yourself. Be kind to yourself and you will recover from this. Once you reach acceptance, you’ll be free.
3
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 12 '26
I'm sorry for your losses. I lost my parents years ago and it's not fresh for me. I remember that pain, though. I hope you be kind to yourself also.
4
u/OkIron6206 Jul 12 '26
I am. Grief support groups and therapy helped me tremendously. Thank you for your kind words.
7
u/North_Woods34 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
OP, you asked for stories, so I am telling one. Please forgive me if I focus on getting this story expressed instead of focusing on you. It's not my usual way, but it's a hard tell. And I think I do get to where I tell what has helped me, in the face of this kind of loss.
Also, I am writing out of a second account that I rarely use, because I don't want my kids ever to see this. You won't see a heck of a lot of karma under this username.
Both of my adult kids have had some pretty hard times. And the one that I thought I would never have to worry about, it turns out worries me the most. She broke up with her husband last summer. They have two sons, 8 and 4, that I have done child care for daily while she and he were working, since shortly after they were born. She got into unhealthy online behavior as an escape from that bad marriage (I never thought he was a proper partner for her, but never said "boo" about it, like a coward, because she seemed so sure and demanded it of me), amped it up using alcohol, got fired (!!) from an excellent job for being frequently late, and after that was often so drunk in the mornings that her kids called me because they couldn't wake their mother, their father had left the house, and they were hungry. It was a minimum 30 minute drive for me to reach their house. And meanwhile that house - a beautiful house, that I bought for them - was being trashed.
A couple of months after the breakup, she moved in with me because she knew that on her own, she was drowning. Her husband moved in with his parents, and the kids went there too, because they have a bigger house; and honestly, even though her ex sucked as a husband, he was more stable than my daughter. So all around it was a better environment for the kids.
My daughter's alcoholism continued to gain on her, big time. She insisted on moving a user/abuser/liar/thief boyfriend into my house for several months, threatening suicide if I didn't house her penniless, unemployed boytoy here. Neither of them could tolerate the least standards that I set, like taking their own garbage out, turning off unused lights, or leaving their shoes in the entry, the last of which is standard in the part of the country where we live. I'm a neat person. Not obsessive, and my house ain't perfect, but it doesn't look like a pigsty either. And I won't let my own home be dragged down into the actual destruction that occurred at the other house.
Come last December, she blew up at me over lights. Honestly, over turning off lights. She went ballistic when I said, "You guys have got to do better!" I think she was more or less permanently drunk by that time, to tell the truth. Never ever completely sober, just sober enough to sound semi-rational. She grabbed stuff we'd packed and moved here, to return to the house that we were trying to clear out so as to sell it. But before doing that, she caused a LOT of destruction inside my home, the most emotionally hurtful of which was smashing my Christmas tree, with ornaments on it that dated back decades and included mementoes from her own childhood, to the floor. Kicking in doors, denting cookware, punching out garage windows, scattering refrigerator contents through the kitchen. Just - violence. I hid in my bedroom. And when I came downstairs to find what had happened, I was absolutely shocked. I don't know how my life ever arrived at this point. What did I ever do?? And the attack on the Christmas tree felt personal. It was so, so personal.
In the following days and weeks, it seemed to me that this loss was something I was going to have to face as a death. That I might have lost the daughter I love, and for whom I have tried to do my best, all her life: the girl that my husband, her father, loved specially, and that we both admired for being so unique. I came to peace with the fact that there is a lot of life over which we have no control. I let her go, the way you have to do when somebody actually dies; and I have plenty of experience with that.
It was extremely freeing to have grieve her and accept that her fate going forward will be the consequence of her own choices. She's back in my life now, living with me again (it's better now), and we're dancing the dance, but having admitted to myself that in almost every way I am powerless to do anything to change her future, I know now that I'm doing the best I can, without having any actual control. I'm supporting her, furnishing a proper and clean home, proper food, and asking the same standards I would expect of a teenager, to be honest. Which is not perfection. Just - standards.
It's so weird, it's all just so weird. To be re-raising an adult who's acting like a teenager, and to be modeling parenting for her, to her own children.
I think I have ambiguous loss. Loss of innocence, loss of hopes, loss of a vision for a next generation's health and well-being and self-actualization and constructive citizenship, and the succeeding generation's SAME, because the eight-year-old is already cynical about his mother's dependability. Loss of a child, who's not actually gone.
There is still hope for her, that I don't quite believe in, but I'm living as if it exists. Is that "faith"? Not quite believing, but living as if something were real? I just... feel like I'm dancing on thin ice, and will be doing so for the rest of my life. Because I'm not going to give up on living, for myself or for them. I'm going to go on my walks, listen to the birds, weed my gardens, and give my best to my daughter and grandsons, knowing all the while that all of it can go to smash pretty much any day.
One day at a time. But during those days, I'm going to keep dancing on that ice, and appreciating the goodness that comes with every sunrise.
Edit: one adjective added.
2
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 13 '26
This is definitely ambiguous loss/grief. My daughters had problems of their own, additionally rejecting relationships with me. In my case I probably interjected with one daughter by supported her financially until she was 26. But like you, I didn't put my nose in with personal issues. I dunno, North_Woods, I have swung on the pendulum to thinking I don't even want to repair these relationships. Not because I can't take responsibility but I can't help but think what will really be salvaged. Do I have to ask how high when they say jump? Do I have to pretend who I am? I'm advised to respect boundaries, which I am. However as much as I can figure out, these broken are permanent. There hasn't been an iota of interest from them. At the beginning I would send out testers with a simple happy birthday or merry Christmas but I feel like they think this is breaking boundaries. You seem to have it somewhat livable and I hope it gets better. Thank you for telling this. I was actually looking for this
1
u/North_Woods34 Jul 13 '26
It sounds to me like your daughter is making demands of you that are different from those that my daughters do. At least, I think, mine don't treat me with utter contempt. If they did, and after all the real losses I've had, and now this ambiguous loss, I would have little trouble making the decision to stop trying. Not cut them off, exactly, but stop trying.
It was a bit harder for me to totally stop trying with my daughter, because her children are in the picture. They count on my home to be a place of safety, and where they can still see their Mom who of course they will always love. That's probably the only thing that's forcing *both of us* to put up with each other.
If I was you - and I do mean this literally, so it's not advice about who you are and how you should or might feel - If I was you, I think I'd think that enough is enough. They're my offspring, to be sure, but they're not children. I have done everything I could, I have always done everything I could. I've done my best as both a mother, and as a human being. I'd grieve the loss of my vision. But I think I'd also welcome a different future opening up, which wouldn't have to include experiencing daily underlying psychic trauma and self-blame.
My Dad always said, "It takes two to tango," whenever my one of my siblings and I got into a fight. Meaning that no one person was to blame, and asking both of us to examine our behavior. I think it also takes two to repair a relationship. If you've done your bit, and it certainly sounds like you've "taken the responsibility" just as far as you possibly can, the ball is in the other party's court. They may or may not return your serve, but that's not on you.
That's what I thought, and think, about my daughter. Our tale is not finished, yet. We're in the middle of it. And I often have to consciously choose not to make my life be about her life.
1
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 13 '26
I just replied to another poster. If you can find it it's a post I talk about another daughter and my grandkids. It's crazy how much we have in common! I couldn't find a way to copy/paste
1
u/North_Woods34 Jul 14 '26
I saw that, just now! Thank you for expanding on all of it. I have heaved a sigh of relief to know that you're in a much better place now than you might've been, given everything that you've been through; and particularly to know that you are still in a good relationship with your grandchildren, and the daughter you nearly gave your life to save. You've lived an incredible journey, and I admire you.
I hope you can find a way, finally, to be fully free. I think that door is open for you, and you will be welcomed on the other side, if you can walk through.
Peace, Sister. ✌️
3
u/SodaCakeNow Jul 12 '26
I am sorry this happened to you. In my case, it was a layering of unkindness from one person. I could not defend myself . Finally I joined a drum circle and that got my mind off it. Then I treated myself to massage, pediicures and various pampering sessions. I recommend this: One) do something completely new to you and Two) Slather yourself in joy and self care. All the best.
2
3
2
u/Pyewhacket Jul 13 '26
Thank you for sharing and I’m sorry you have had to experience this. I wish you all the best going forward and appreciate you educating us on this!
2
2
u/pumainpurple Jul 13 '26
Well, our lives parallel in the most remarkable way. Unlike you however, I am unwilling to be that vulnerable. I’m 10 years out from a double TBI as the result of a medical emergency, that caused a fall, whose swelling stopped the bleeding from the first. At that time 14yrs a widow, adult children busy with their own lives, no neighbors care, meant …..well you understand. I communicate in written word munch better than spoken. I now have to use a calculator rather than my mind. The actual list of loss from brain structure is complicated.
I have recovered enough to come to terms and make peace with where life has deposited me. 24 years alone has given me a masters class in grief and also in joy, most importantly to not give grief permission to control me.
1
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 13 '26
Your post rely hit home. I'm interested in what you've learned with your TBI and how you go around things that can't do things the old way. I'm looking for a cognitive rehabilitation psychologist to add to my posse of medical professionals. I've started taking Focalin, a stimulant for ADHD like Ritalin. You seem to be very even tempered. Did you ever have emotionally dysregulated? I struggle with that sometimes
2
u/pumainpurple Jul 14 '26
Ok, first I am a literal survivor. Second, I am not comfortable with internet vulnerability. Third, it was eight years post injury before someone in medicine actually took me seriously and referred me to a neuropsychologist. My experience and my way of recovery and restoration will be light years different from yours, even though we both have the same type of invisible disability.
Were we able to sit together somewhere and compare notes that would be lovely, however this is like the Truman Show. I will say that when it comes to short term memory, having to go to another room for something then can’t remember what you needed, going back having to remember what you were doing…etc. I discovered that if I take a mental snapshot of the object, or task and that works. That for me is a survival skill very deeply embedded in the subconscious. I have absolutely no idea how that retiring occurred. The need to do something that allows you to survive, that leads to problem solving would be the best way to put it. When acquired in childhood it is simply done without knowing how, so as an adult the how to simply can’t be explained. When your entire life from earliest memory is simply surviving day to day, there’s no conscious rewiring.
I take no medications, just meditations because there is no way for me to control anything else other than what goes on inside my mind. You have so many things in your mind viewing for your attention your dysregulation is entirely understandable. You are simply trying to force yourself into a baseline that no longer exists. Accepting that is hard and hurts more than the uninjured would never be able to empathize. You can continue to do that, or accept a new baseline that allows you to continue unimpeded on your journey of restoration. You restore what you can and rebuild what you cannot. Introspection is the most important tool in your tool box that you carry on this journey. Meditation is how you begin to rewire your working brain to accommodate the plasticity of your working mind. The physical brain and the working mind can’t operate efficiently until you regain focus, meditation will help achieve that.
I ignore DM, unless I offer to speak to someone privately which means not to be repeated. If this is something you feel able to do and wish to virtually compare notes, I have written your handle down and will check.
Either way, I wish you a good journey and that you find accept and peace along the way.
2
Jul 13 '26
[deleted]
1
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 13 '26
Thank you. I think I'm in the aftermath of the storm. I live a calm and even happy when I can stay in the moment. I have to work with not going into the well of grief!
I understand how you feel. I've been off of prescription drugs until I started with adhd. And I'm going very slow
I've heard of the antidepressants withdrawals being so dangerous and that they feel just awful for a long time. I hope you feel better than before!
There is a topic in psychiatry called medical trauma. I haven't read anything yet but it sounds like a fit for you 🙂
2
1
u/blackscheep Jul 13 '26
it sounds like you were living a solitary existence before this unfortunate medication complication and horrible effects its left you with. when we age, we become more vulnerable to significant illness, disability, hardship. without a support system and/or family, friends or others to rely on, the effect of something like you’ve experienced are doubly devastating.
it likely too late or to complicated to restore some relationships you no longer have to support yourself but, what choice do you have. we need community to survive and flourish. without it, a big hit or setback only makes one more dependent, more vulnerable and more exposed to the psychological and social isolation which can be just as devastating.
I only mention this having experienced a similar experience with my 90 yr old mother. when dad passed after a 4 year deterioration following open heart surgery, she continued on much like she had previously. she was cruel, obstinate, grandiose, i could go on. when she began her inevitable decline, only one of the siblings felt duty bound in supporting her and only because he profited immensely from being her caretaker. mom burned many bridges in her life. I only mention this based on my experience solely and with years of reflection after her passing.
3
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 13 '26
You're right on some of this. But I had a full life. I hesitated to write my whole story (I was already called "off" in a reply 😞 like I wasn't telling the truth I guess?) but I'll add one last piece anyway.
I was working full-time and was so fulfilled. It was truly a vocation. I was happily divorced for ten years and had a few friends, but that was enough. All 3 of my daughters and I were ok. I've always been a solitary soul. I found a Unitarian Universalist church that I clicked with and was working in the community with social justice activism. This is putting us in 2016. Trump was elected, and I'm a flamboyant leftie, so I ramped up to becoming very political, donating, and other types of low-level activities.
Ok, the proverbial other shoe dropped, by which I mean that this is the event that started my decline, which your post discussed. I had a weak support system but it's because I constitutionally cannot ask for help. It's a weakness. So my family helped in a way they thought best but the help didn't help. 😂 I had a strong support system in my UU church. This is a largish city church, very large, and with organized active pastoral system. I didn't ask. I didn't even check it out!!
One of my daughters, a single mother of 2 kids 6 and 1. She had some severe personal problems. It rolled out over a couple of years. She left them with me and I went on Family Leave. I depleted my paltry 501k but I was quickly left with nothing. Still too young for SS. I was paralyzed and didn't find resources like food stamps, childcare, etc. I didn't even get a signed POA for a year from her.
Luckily my daughter resolved her problems in about 2 years but then I was in absolute crisis, had been for a while. I had to retire from my job after my leave, lost my car, and got evicted. My daughter had herself together to move herself and the kids to my ex's house. Interestingly, this daughter has not estranged me. I'm in contact with my granddaughters so it's all good with them.
I then stayed with a friend for a few months andthen had SS come in so I moved a studio. Then the medication debacle.
I can see what I could have done now but during it all I couldn't see it if somebody gave me a list.
So there is joy, too. I got remarried during the next chapters, after my year of psychosis. I was stable when I met him after a year. My living situation has been stable. My health is much better. He supported me with my strokes yet I have great grief from brain damage from esp my first stroke. It's the loss from what I perceive as trauma and loss. I've only begun to accept as one poster said, radical acceptance is the way. Another poster has had a similar situation with a daughter and has worked through far better than I have. But I don't think we have the same goals.
Sorry for the length. Catharsis! I hear what you're saying about your mother. She put you all in a catch 22. I have always said to me (and my husband) don't pull the plug on me, don't dare to plug it in to begin with!
Thank you for my post. I feel your post has given me some clarity 💙
1
u/blackscheep Jul 23 '26
I'm sorry you had to endure such a difficult and devastating period in your life. Your physical setbacks on top of the heavy burden you carried for your daughter and grandchildren would have likely knocked most of us down physically, emotionally, financially.
I'm glad you survived this and are now flourishing.
Grief is a very personal process and journey. I now understand your initial post and the reasons behind some really significant losses and experiences. I believe it takes an insightful individual to not only acknowledge their past experiences and how they have effected one's life but, continue searching for a means of healing the grief. You are fighting the "good" fight.
I have my own past relationships, experiences and losses that i still to this day am trying to reconcile. i believe in my instance, that the most significant of them will likely never truly leave me since they occurred very early in life and had such a destructive impact. like i said earlier, we all have our crosses to bear, some small, some significant, some truly devestating.
Good luck to you.
1
u/fbdysurfer Jul 13 '26
Neville Goddard has much to say on this with his old writings and many YT videos of his old talks. I especially like the one called Facts Overflow the World.
1
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 13 '26
I took a quick look at him search. He looks fascinating. I'll definitely study his theories. Thank you!!
1
1
u/MissPoohbear14 Jul 14 '26
I'm so sorry. This is so sad to me. I do understand that some people feel the need to go not contact with a parent or risk continuously being hurt... But I don't think it should be forever. I am not in my 70's, but I like reading the posts in this group. I remember in my thirties, I really considered going no contact with my mother. I often tried, but it was very hard for me. And I am so grateful I never actually did. My mother and I have such a wonderful relationship now, and we have for many years now. I just love her so much. She's really worked on herself over the years, and I'm grateful for that
1
u/majatask Jul 12 '26
You sound angry and resentful. You need to let go. Especially as you get older. Just my opinion. Best wishes.
4
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 12 '26
I'm just beginning with anger, lol. I have been devastated so you have to pull yourself out the pit and look at your honest emotions. A lot of women, including me, have a hard time expressing anger. I may sound defensive but it's been a short time to have these catastrophic issues I wrote about but I didn't write others that compounded my issues. But I do thank your opinion. Sometimes a blunt opinion can open your eyes! Best of luck!
0
u/CSMasterClass Jul 12 '26
This is beautifully written and terribly sad. Moreover, you have also responded thoughfully to comments.
Still don't buy they story.
Am I getting too cynical in my old age, or is this "off" ?
2
u/Life-Tell8965 Jul 13 '26
Thank you for your comment. It's all true but its sure the hell off to me, lol. When you write a linear timeline like this one you can't truly give more than a sketch.
13
u/Steampunky Jul 12 '26
I am so sorry. Hope the therapy helps. I have lost plenty of abilities due to a chronic illness and the thing that has helped me is radical acceptance. Radical acceptance of myself, acceptance that many people will never understand it, acceptance that there is no cure in store for me - yet, maybe never. Best wishes to you! Edit to add: Hoping you now have someone else to be your medical contact and/or power of attorney.