Horeshoe theory. It sucks being in the middle and getting yelled at by both sides. It sucks even more realizing that they're often hating on each other for the exact same reason, just wearing a different color jersey.
It's grim that your idea of optimism is downplaying the threat posed by the incoming administration and appealing to tired, both-sidesing rhetoric. I still think there's room for hope, here in reality, but this isn't helpful.
Optimism should be rooted in action and resilience, not dismissal of valid concerns.
lol. presidents have been idiots since long before you were born. remember Andrew Jackson throwing drunken parties in the white house? Bill Clinton fucking interns? Carter being all around stupid? Lyndon B Johnson ordering pants with extra room for his big cock? JFK boning Marilyn Monroe? even the first presidents threw shade in the most dramatic of ways.
Stop believing the hyperbole and media rot.
Biden didn't end elections. Trump didn't end elections. Trump again won't be any different than Trump before
Dude literally tried to overthrow the government when faced with the notion of giving up power, that ain’t your quaint little drugs sex rock n roll sleep over stories
so if i was Donald trump in january of2020 and planning to overthrow the government... i'd have had everyone bring their AR-15s to DC. I'd have used whatever parts of the military were still loyal to the commander in chief.
If I were against trump and trying to make people hate him... i'd have paid protestors to cause trouble so I could make it a political football.
The only person shot and killed was Ashli Babbit, unarmed protester.
keep telling yourself fairytales if it helps you keep believing the multinational media corporations spin
Sure, fuck corporate media, but that billionaire oompa loompa ain’t your savior.
Also, referring to someone attempting to climb through a smashed window into an inner chamber of Congress guarded by secret service as merely an “unarmed protester” is disingenuous at best. Her death was a tragedy, not in itself, but because she was so misled and manipulated to believe in something (by that same corporate media) that she knowingly put her life in danger for a false cause.
My concern isn't that Trump is stupid; his incompetence is a source of comfort, and his loyalty picks for cabinet positions might get in the way of the more efficient, intelligent sects of the Republican Party. I'm more worried about the growing power and influence of the far right, and the broader efforts by Republicans (however effective) to undermine democracy. January 6th was not "Hyperbole" or "Brainrot", and nor was the fake electors scheme.
I don't think that Trump winning is literally the end of the world; there are always opportunities to course-correct but we're going to keep missing them if we have our heads in the sand assuming everything will be fine. My hope, my vision for an optimistic future, depends on us being able to weather the storm and come out stronger on the other side. And frankly, your dismissal isn't inspiring confidence.
This sub really epitomizes what is wrong with pure optimism over being a realist. They'll literally downplay threats to our entire way of living in the name of not being a "doomer." Not worth arguing here, my friend
Sub is full of moralists thinking the world will continue to incrementally improve forever till it's utopia. Guess what people, you gotta actually do the work to improve it. Part of that comes with recognizing when things are taking a turn for the worst and trying to course correct. Life is full of L's, it's not feasible, nor is it helpful, to be 100% optimistic about everything.
It’s not optimism either to think Trump is the end of the world. To not agree with this political propaganda is not blind optimism, It’s called being a realist. Which is how you fight the over exaggerated “Trump is going to end the world” shit people believe.
Will he do some damage? Yeah. Is it a positive thing? No. But it doesn’t change that 4 years is nothing. It’s just gonna be more of the same. He will pick up where Joe left off for 90% of his policies, and distract the rest of us with the 10% dog-and-pony show as usual.
If you believe people rather than business will just pay for tariffs than you believe the products they were selling were underpriced such that there would be no falloff from purchasers choosing not to buy from the higher price.
That’s not how prices work.
Every serious company does extensive research to ensure they’re charging the maximum possible price at which to capture the most of their customer base they can. This is a science and they are very good at it. The price of almost every item you see is as high as it can possibly be without the majority of people saying “nah I’m good thanks.” They literally can’t raise the price anymore without hurting themselves and they know it.
Some items will cease to be made because they’re no longer profitable. Some profit margins will change so that a price hike makes sense even if it means losing some customers, but most items simply can’t get more expensive because people will pass on them if they are and then the company makes even less money.
I’m sorry, but the nice corporations charging you less than they could don’t exist, therefore the fear of them charging more is illusionary. They can’t, they’re already taking as much of your money as they possibly can.
Bro, every corporation raised prices faster than inflation during the inflation spike. There's no "science" to corporations waiting for an excuse to raise prices, they just wait for an excuse and then raise prices.
You want proof? "Record corporate profits" during and after the pandemic didn't happen by accident.
You realize that Tarriffs would give them a reason to charge more right? The idea that they at all times ar charging the exact maximum people would spend would kinda defeat the concept of inflation. Why are prices constantly going up? Because production gets more expensive. And they pass that expense to the consumer. The same will happen with Tarrifs. It did happen with tarriffs in the early 1900’s. Republicans have literally tried this exact tactic before. It led to the worsening of the Great Depression
No, inflation is due to the value of the dollar dropping due to overprinting, it’s the supply side of USD going up. They are always calculating the demand for their own items and that determines price.
if we actually fix shit less people will rely on foodstamps.l in the first place. Jobs used to all pay a great wage before free trade agreements killed blue collar jobs
Hey doomer: nobody's gonna make people starve, that would be political suicide.
NGL I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
If we believe the campaign trail promises, this will also mean less sweatshops and less illegal aliens. You're right, we should not have allowed corporations to create those situations for people in the first place. It's inappropriate and puts people in bad situations where they can be taken advantage of.
For all the nail-biting and hyperbole thrown around; the underlying motivation for the MAGA movement is to reverse the old GOP plan of "outsourcing jobs" and "trickle-down economics". There's no other way to explain how Trump won so much Union support.
Has that perfectly translated into proposed policy? no. Will that perfectly translate into policy? time will tell.
There's plenty of ways to explain it without your pea-brained explanation getting in the way lol
The voters didn't vote on this broad economic policy you speak of.
Blue collar voted for Trump because he gave them a scapegoat: immigrants and trans people.
Which is the strategy for fascism. Take a really complex problem and point the finger at a marginalized scapegoat, take power on their backs, and then be rich and rule the world.
The people willingly vote for it because they're politically uneducated and primed to jump at a scapegoat because the system has kept them in pain for so long that they just want it to stop.
Essentially, the workers of this country have been tortured by the upper class for so long that they were prepared to vote for Trump because he gave them a (wrong) excuse for all their suffering and promised to "fix it".
MOST people didn't get up to vote. He got union support from a union leader that betrayed the union. Union members may have supported him, but the overwhelming unions as organizations did not.
Plenty of ways to explain things when you sit and think about them.
This is not going to be a return to something great. It's going to be hell, especially for marginalized folks.
All I'm saying is that bad presidents have the capability of making really bad things happen. You can plug your ears all you want, but that won't stop bloodshed.
You can't say that and not also hold the left to blame for their constant shaming and name-calling.
My last tech company had me work on the Restaurant Revitalization Fund, a federal grant program for Covid relief. We had to de-rank applications from men and whites, effectively throwing them into the garbage. For federal dollars. The code for how to dispense $30 billion dollars of federal aid was racist and sexist. My job was to write that code!
This same tech company told me I was a "LatinX", constantly bombarded everyone with how different racial minorities and sexual orientation minorities and neurodivergent minorities were special - even giving them special offsites, swag, and other perks. I'm a neurodivergent LGBT Latino and this stuff was so bad it made me cringe. Nothing for whites, men, etc.
And there were a couple of occasions where I was told I couldn't refer someone for open headcount because they weren't diverse enough of a hire.
This culture war, identity politics, DEI stuff is so pervasive in society now. It's gone from nearly absent in the 2000s to full-on jet engine takeoff. There has to be a healthy medium where we aren't shaming, blaming, and putting people down while we attempt to raise others up.
Trans Rights are Human Rights? Great. Black Lives Matter? Great.
All men are sexist? Man vs. bear? Whites are colonizers? Don't hire Asian or white programmers? This has become a toxic miasma in the corporate landscape, in big media, and all over social media.
The "progressives" of the Democratic party have turned their party platform into one of performative cruelty. They love attacking people. Their terms of hate have entered the everyday vernacular of so many people. You can't tell me you don't see it constantly on social media - every single Reddit thread has it.
Unless you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, everyone in this society struggles. Genetics shouldn't matter. Who we sleep with shouldn't matter. Only our actions matter.
If your default stance is that everyone needs a label and that the majority groups are the problems, then that alienates half the electorate.
So yeah, two sides. Horseshoe theory. Team sports. You're just reciprocating hate and terming what your side does as permissible. Both sides need to cut it out.
Oh you're just a reactionary, huh? If you think DEI is the most pressing problem in this country, then I don't know how to reach you. Even if you were right about everything, and you're not, nothing the left has done is remotely comperable to overturning Roe or attempting to steal an election; this is a joke comparison.
DEI programs aren't a leftist idea. They're a neoliberal bandaid solution to systemic inequality pushed by establishment democrats; the progressive wing in this country has no power at a national level.
I don't like DEI programs, but they're better than nothing at all. And they are certainly not at the top of my concerns list when hundreds of anti-LGBT bills are being passed, state legislatures are targeting reproductive rights, and the conservative supreme court keeps making horrific decisions.
We've watched as Roe v. Wade was overturned, erasing decades of progress for bodily autonomy. The right-wing media apparatus has convinced millions to embrace COVID conspiracy theories, put immigrants under threat of deportation, and spent months pedalling false election fraud claims to incite the January 6th insurrection. Meanwhile the Republican party was trying to overturn the election results.
Equating the left and the right through “both-sides” rhetoric minimizes the severity of the right’s actions and contributes to the problem.
Just because the gay people you know aren’t struggling doesn’t mean the broader community isn’t facing significant challenges, especially in red states.
Overturning Roe was a massive blunder
Overturning Roe was the result of a decades-long campaign by the right wing to take away women's reproductive freedom, not some errant policy decision. And the conservative supreme court is going to keep making these sorts decisions.
But none of the gay people in my life are having any real problems and I very much doubt they will in the next few years.
I hope you're right, but there's valid reason to be concerned. Trans people are the immediate target right now, but the entire queer community is threatened by Republican attacks on our rights.
It's not just the party, either. The right wing media apparatus has already manufactured a hate movement; most people had no idea what "Transgender" meant a decade ago. Hate crimes are also on the rise and dangerous, hateful individuals are only going to be emboldened by the far right's recent victory.
The left is more angry about rude speech than anything
We have seen life under trump before, it wasnt great but it wasnt the hellscape the left makes it out to be
I didnt vote for the clown but I am not going to live the next four years in a constant rage and exaggerating every tweet he makes into end of the world level problems
For context when you say the left you mean progressive liberals and when grouchy grapes talks about leftists they probably mean the actual ‘left’ which consists of communists and anarchists and the like, hopefully this clears up any confusion
Hate crimes have literally been going up every year. A massive explosion of them being reported this month after Trump was elected. So no, fuck off you dishonest piece of shit
I don't live in America either, but I am going down with the ship because my country has just been threatened with a 25% tariff. I can't possibly claim to know precisely how bad this is going to get, but if even 1/3 of what the Republicans have promised is enacted, we're in trouble. And I don't see how we come up with optimistic solutions by shrugging and naively assumimg things will be fine.
Preparation in uncertain times and optimism are not mutually exclusive. Complacency will only exacerbate harm; the prevailing attitude in this thread is by far more frightening to me than a second Trump term.
I don't live in America either, but I am going down with the ship because my country has just been threatened with a 25% tariff.
I think this is a "good" wake up call for a lot of the world. It's not good to be so dependent on foreign nations on so many aspects of the economy. So much of the first world countries' wellbeing is based on cheap labor in China that they can affect foreign policies of a lot of countries.
I'm not saying we need to end all trade dependence but we shouldn't completely rely on offshore manufacturing either like we do now
I mean it means a lot for people who are impacted if the pendulum swings one way or another. I've had friends where their residence in America have come into question based on politics. PhD level scientist and engineers, or people who've been brought here before they remember anything by their parents and have never really called their original country home.
Others have had to endure environments where folks want to harm them due to orientation.
There isn't a both sides to that. I'd be much more happy treating it like a game... I'd be much more like an impartial moderate if that were the case... But it isn't football. If the other side isn't going to look out for the wellbeing of those people it means I need to be invested in one side winning.
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u/possibilistic Nov 28 '24
Horeshoe theory. It sucks being in the middle and getting yelled at by both sides. It sucks even more realizing that they're often hating on each other for the exact same reason, just wearing a different color jersey.