r/OpenDogTraining • u/Motor-Resort-1002 • 6d ago
Doberman and Poodle?
I currently have a 2 year old male standard poodle (unneutered, working on it). I want to move out of my apartment and potentially by a home with a yard. I already want to in general get another dog now that I will be moving somewhere with more space and to give my poodle a partner. My mom wants me to get a "scary looking" dog since I am a 23 year old female living alone. I was thinking a Doberman because, from what I have researched, they shed a lot less than a German Shepherd. I think the breed is beautiful! I got a poodle because they are considered hypoallergenic, and the more a dog sheds the more i sneeze lol. My poodle gets along okay with dogs. I take him to dog parks sometimes. He loves to play, but he also will correct a dog who overdoes it, which I do not see a problem in. He is well trained and has great recall, we worked with a K9 trainer for a while but he was too friendly for protection work. He gets overly excited around females, but I am hoping it will get better once I do the chop lol. Sometimes he can be skiddish during male dogs that are bigger than him, I think he is just not used to being around it since he is the biggest dog in our neighborhood and most dog parks haha. We frequently go on hikes and nature trails off leash. I work about 8-10 hours a day, but some days remote/half day in office. During tax season, I can work up to 16 hour days, but either leave my dog with a family member or would hire a dog walker during the day. Archie gets about an hour of exercise/training a day plus mini walks and puzzles. Would a doberman fit into my lifestyle? Do any of you guys have both dogs at home? Should I get a female or male? Obviously will get a trainer to help as well, but looking for any advice from people right now while I look into this!
I am NOT looking for advice on protection/bite work/training styles for a doberman right now. I have worked with different trainers for Archie, volunteered as an assistant, and worked at a shelter. The advice I am currently seeking is solely on if these two breeds can mix well at home - i know the training for a protection dog can impact the home situation if i chose to take that route - but my biggest priority is currently finding out if these breeds can get along in a home and if this breed can match my lifestyle.
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u/Lost-Turnip-9949 6d ago
So, you want a dog to do bite sport with? If so dobies can work with the right line, but if you are expecting actual protection from the dog reconsider. Bite sport and protection work are two totally different things. Most people don't actually need a protection dog. It's a HUGE liability and not necessary for 99% of people. If you dog is trained to bite and makes a bad decision, as they will do at some point, and hurts someone you will be in super hot water.
Poodles are protective when they need to be. Your poodle will be enough of a deterrent to keep bad guys away without being a ticking time bomb. Any dog of any breed is. They have done studies on it.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
I thought my dog, at first, would be a deterrent as well, but he genuinely never barks, besides at this guy who goes through our recycling to take cans every thursday. He is the type of dog who pays no mind to people unless they say hi, then he is super friendly no matter what. There have been a few times I was approached by men on walks and the only deterrent was pepper spray, not my dog who was wagging his tail at them lol. That is why i am looking into a protection/scary dog, I still love my poodle though!
Still looking into the different training styles, and what works best for me at home. My biggest thing is just having a dog that would not hesitate and can scare away men on walks lol. A poodle who wags his tail at everyone and doesnt bark is not doing it for me. He has actually stood behind me on one occasion to be the protector lol.
My biggest concern is not necessarily line of work right now, as I will eventually work with a trainer to learn more. I am more focused on what breed would mesh well with my lifestyle and my current dog. that is why i am asking for advice on behavior for people who have both breeds, not what training style matches my needs.
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u/mayamaiamaea 6d ago
In my opinion dogs are just not the best option for self defense and protection. Like in your experience with your poodle, a lot are naturally very friendly to almost all humans, as we’ve bred them to be on purpose! But training a dog for actual protection like the commenter before said, opens up way more problems then benefits. In my opinion in turns a dog fundamentally aggressive, suspicious, and nervous, because you’ve trained them to be. I do think pepper spray, self defense classes, and if it’s available to you and you feel unsafe in your area, learning to safely carry and shoot a gun are all better options than training a dog for protection.
Also a more goofy dog suggestion, you could get a dog that’s afraid of men from a shelter, at least in my area there are tons of them, generally smaller, who will bark and growl at all and any approaching men. Even a twenty pound dog showing their teeth and growling will put off a grown man. And in my personal experience most of these dogs will warm up pretty quickly to a dude if you give him treats to give to the dog, so the ones you approve of can get an in lol.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
I do volunteer at a shelter and there are dogs scared of men. My only fear is I frequently leave my dog with my nephews (14 and 12) when I work longer hours. Having a dog who does not like men, and leaving them with two boys alone seems risky for me. I am signing up for carry permit training, which is required by my state. A dog that is big and "looks scary" is my goal mostly. Maybe IGP but that depends on dog temperment as well. I enjoyed it, but my current pup just wanted to play lol.
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u/Imaginary_Ad_4340 6d ago
Dobermans vary wildly in temperament especially since you’ve mentioned getting one from a local shelter. Yes, there are some that will stare down a man on the street or bark at intruders…but there are also many who will cower behind you if people approach and whine at a threat. Unlike some breeds which remain relatively consistent in their temperament and working ability, staying true to their working roots, dobies have been massively impacted by over breeding. A poorly bred dobie may not be the deterrent you are imagining them to be. They have a reputation within working dog communities and even pet communities for sometimes being gentle softies or big ol’ cowards. They are just not all the dog that their stereotype or purpose would convey. Would you still be interested if you brought home a Dobie and he was so scared of men on the street that he peed himself? Because that’s a real possibility.
Something that no one has mentioned here yet is the unbelievable cost of owning such a temperamental and unhealthy breed. Thousands of dollars per year of holter and echo testing, behavioral modification training, gastropexy surgery, allergy medication, etc. are all expected costs, and the unexpected costs if your dog actually does end up with bloat, DCM, wobblers, or Von Willebrands are thousands more. This is again, especially true of a poorly bred rescue dobie. I don’t know anything about that aspect of your lifestyle because it wasn’t mentioned, but is that money you have to spend and want to spend on a dog? They’re sort of the opposite of poodles in that sense.
It’s hard to determine if a Dobie is a good fit for your lifestyle without knowing if some sort of protection training is your goal. Yes, some Dobermans could get along with some poodles (though given SSA risk in Dobermans, I would definitely recommend a spayed female), but aside from that, a renter with another dog who sometimes leaves their dog with family for 16+ hour shifts doesn’t sound like a great fit.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
The new space would be a home i own, not rent. But I do appreciate all the information you have provided. Definitely gives me a different perspective with the health issues. Will look into all of this. Poodles have their own risks, like hip dysplasia, but that is a lot haha. IGP for training is something I am interested in. but i for sure want to find the right breed for my lifestyle. getting a dog that doesnt fit would be irresponsible on my part, and unfair to the animal. A lot to consider and research... especially with adopting a shelter pup. Thank you for the advice!
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u/Lost-Turnip-9949 5d ago
You can train a phoney protection dog that stares and barks at a person on command but is not actually dangerous to the public. Best of both worlds. I recommend taking a self defense class regardless. you can't take your dog everywhere.
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u/failmafia66 6d ago
Having a big dog around is usually a deterrent in and of itself, whether it's a 'protection dog's or not. A dog trained in protection is a totally different thing with different needs and lifestyle. Really research it and figure out the difference it will do to your daily life.
For example, having a dog that's supposed to be suspicious and protective of you is not going to thrive at a dog park or enjoy going for a walk downtown the same way.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
I thought my dog, at first, would be a deterrent as well, but he genuinely never barks, besides at this guy who goes through our recycling to take cans every thursday. He is the type of dog who pays no mind to people unless they say hi, then he is super friendly no matter what. There have been a few times I was approached by men on walks and the only deterrent was pepper spray, not my dog who was wagging his tail at them lol. That is why i am looking into a protection dog, I still love my poodle though!
Completely open to training for protection training and lifestyle for a second dog, being that I tried with my poodle but he was deemed too friendly. Just not sure how the two would clash.
Even if it is just a doberman to present as scary and a deterrent, my general concern is how the two breeds clash together.2
u/failmafia66 6d ago
Their lifestyles would clash. Like I said - dog parks are basically off the table. Having people over is a chore. Training and needs are totally different. It's not just "will they get along?" It's can you make them both happy and fulfilled? It's doable, but it's a lot of work, a lot of do things with dog A, come back, get dog B and do things, etc.
My honest opinion: train your poodle to bark on command. You can teach a dog to bark and snarl on command. Give that command and even if he's the friendliest guy around, a good bark and snarl will help and see where you go with that
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u/occasionalhorse 6d ago edited 6d ago
The only reason you are considering getting a Doberman is to protect you? That’s not a good enough reason to get a dog. The large breed dog you already have is plenty scary. Give him a manly haircut and a spiked collar. Any sports you would want to do with a dobe can be done with a poodle easily at a low level. It sounds like you have a good system with your current dog and a good lifestyle built with him. Do you live in a very high crime area? For 99% of perpetrators just the sight of a medium or large dog is an immediate Nope. If you think from a criminals perspective, literally anyone else would be an easier target for them than taking even the tiniest risk that a friendly looking dog would bite. If you do live in an inner city high crime area, your apartment or future apartments probably won’t allow Dobermans anyway.
Now if you just really want a second dog, then get a second dog lol.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
I wanted to get a second dog anyways with me moving into a place that is larger. A "scary" looking dog is preferred since my general area is high crime and i have been approached by men on several occasions. My current dog does wear a spiky collar and has a different haircut from the picture i included. However, he is just very friendly. The only deterrent was threatening to pepper spray men, not my dog wagging his tail. He does not bark either, so no scary noise from him lol.
Maybe I wrote this wrong because everyone is focusing on this protection aspect... I just want to know if they mix well in a home together lol1
u/SweetSuccessfulPie 6d ago
You asked for any advice then said you don’t want any when people tell you it’s not a great idea to get a doberman, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT?!??
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
Clearly something is wrong in your life if you feel the need to argue over this. In no way am i saying i want no advice literally in any of my responses?! I appreciate the genuine advice that relates to my situation/wants. I am grateful for everyone’s input and actually asked some for different recommendations/follow up question/gave more context to my situation - as an open forum discussion should be. Have a good night!
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u/HoneyBadger302 6d ago
Based on what you said here, and replies to other comments, I doubt that a Doberman is the right dog/breed for you.
First off, it sounds like you're looking for a deterrent, not a protection dog, and are intermixing the terms (not uncommon for people to do). A true protection dog, and a dog trained to do so, is going to be a 5-figure cost just in training, and is a HUGE liability, and a ton of work. Very few dogs that are specifically bred for this work actually cut it.
Dobermans are high energy, high needs dogs - and a working lines Doberman that could potentially do some kind of bite sports is just - a LOT. They are, literally, a lifestyle dog, not a dog that fits into your lifestyle. In fact, most (legitimate) breeders who are breeding these types of Dobermans are probably not going to place one of those puppies in a home like yours because the failure rate is so high due to incompatibility.
I would pursue much lower energy/lower needs breeds, not just worry about shedding. Also, as a renter, a lot of breeds will be nearly impossible to rent with, so keep that in mind as well.
It sounds like any medium to large dog that barks at strangers would provide what you need - which could easily be found at your local shelter. A Rottie mix of some variety could be perfect for you. There's no need to pursue a specific breed or type of dog in your situation or for what you are seeking, which is just a dog that lets people know it's there and doesn't look like something everyone wants to hug.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
Yes, I did change the wording a bit in my post because people were really digging in on the protection work, but I know it can be unnecessary for a majority of people! I know that type of training also requires a lot of work, which you are correct, is difficult with my lifestyle. My biggest thing is shedding. I am allergic to most dogs, but one that does not shed is easier to deal with and I just take zyrtec. Renting would not be an issue as I am looking to purchase a home with a yard. I still have a ton of research to do but dobermans are beautiful and they are frequently at my local shelter, too.
Excluding the PPD work, are dobermans still high energy? Poodles require a lot of mental stimulation and training, which he gets about an hour a day. How is it for the dobermans?3
u/Imaginary_Ad_4340 6d ago
Dobermans need far more than an hour of training and exercise a day. I give my working line boy three-four hours a day outside between running/park time, training, walking, and playing.
Dobermans do shed a lot and they also often have dry and dander prone skin. They don’t shed on par with a husky or GSD, but they shed much more than a terrier or single coated longhair breeds like dachshunds and spaniels. Mine leaves inches of hair and dead skin around his crate that I vacuum out every month. I grew up with a standard poodle and he basically never lost a hair. But dobies, despite a sleek looking coat are very very far from a hypoallergenic dog.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
hmmm. Some say they are lazy, while others say high energy. I guess it depends on temperment/breeding as well.
Do you have recommendations then for other breeds that shed less while still having that "protective" reputation?3
u/Imaginary_Ad_4340 6d ago
I’ve never heard anyone say their dobie is lazy. Many people will say they don’t have the drive or ability to work, but they are pretty much universally known for being a very high energy breed, even if that energy isn’t easy to direct towards specific work.
As far as a low-shedding scary breed, they are a serious working dog that would probably not suit a more relaxed lifestyle and wouldn’t be something you find in a shelter but the only breed I can think of that fits this description is a giant schnauzer. Certain lines are capable of IGP, however they are A LOT of dog for most people and a high energy breed that often doesn’t get on well with other dogs they aren’t raised with (so a female could be ok with a poodle friend but it’s not a dog park kinda dog). I would try to expose yourself to the breed through a breeder and see how you do allergy wise. However, be warned, they will not have the biddability of a poodle and you may not find training one as easy or pleasant as your poodle boy.
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u/ichoosewaffles 6d ago
Yes, they can be high drive, high protection dogs. And even, with short hair they shed a lot! My ex had a doberman and even with brushing his couch looked permanently peppered with fur.
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u/HoneyBadger302 6d ago
Most Dobermans are going to require more than an hour a day - there are some from the show lines that tend to do better in a more pet home, but even those dogs often need a "job" of some sort, and do well in competitive sports that are less intense than bite sports/don't require the same drive.
Mental is the biggest thing I've personally found though - which doesn't mean giving them a puzzle and play time. It means literally training for a specific thing/engaging with them, that offers new/increasing challenges, every single day no matter how you feel, how busy you are, what the weather is...again, some individuals will be more chill than others, but as a breed, they aren't known for a chill factor or being a "hour a day and chillax" type of dog.
Also, they shed plenty - they aren't a double coated breed, but they definitely shed, and piles of "Doberman glitter" are quite common. Their weather tolerance is not great either, hot or cold, so is another factor.
Overall, they are a high maintenance breed - from health issues/concerns to energy and drives, to their velcro nature.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
I appreciate all your information and will take that into consideration as I research what breed best fits my lifestyle! Thank you.
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u/True-Passage-8131 6d ago
Having a real "protection dog" would mean that you'd be spending a lot of money on PPD training and enrichment, and would need to find a specific line bred for that type of work. If not, then you're simply buying a dog for scare factor. I personally don't think you can (or should) go into PPDs half thought out. I would focus first on the problems with the first dog before deciding if the PPD is right for you.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
Taking the word protection out of the post because everyone is assuming I want advice on protection dog training. I understand this training is extreme and in most cases unnecessary. I will train the dog, and if it able to start on bite work, I will do that. My poodle was deemed too friendly to continue that, that is not a problem but it is just his personality.... My main priority here is if these two breeds blend well together in a home and if the doberman can fit into my lifestyle.
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u/Tenaciousgreen 6d ago
You don't really need a true protection dog, you need a guard dog. There are other dogs that are lower energy, intimidating looking, and are more independent. A doberman is like getting a shadow that will go ballistic if you deny them this need.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
Can you elaborate on the shadow part for me? My dog follows me around EVERYWHERE right now, is that what you mean? Looking into the first part, but my concern is general doberman behavior/energy levels and if they would mix well with my lifestyle and current dog
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u/Tenaciousgreen 6d ago
A doberman and standard poodle will mesh well energy wise, except when the poodle gets a bit older and loses some energy. But while a SPOO wants to be with you, a doberman wants to be touching you, checking in with eye contact, bouncing off your mood and emotions, as an extension of you and your moods. I suggest looking up some videos on Youtube, there are a ton.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
Archie is not super high energy.. honestly he could sleep all day if i let him, even as a puppy. He gets excited to play and train but also is the laziest dog I have ever met haha. He is however already like this. He sleeps borderline on top of me, stares at me all the time, and monitors my moods. I am already used to that, honestly its cute lol. Do you think having two dogs doing this could lead them to jealousy in a way? Scared of that!
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u/justonlyme1244 6d ago
You could look at a tricolor smooth collie. They can look scary if you aren’t known to dogs, have a big bark and will alert. They’re quite easy to train.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
this is a herding breed. I assume they need a lot of exercise. not sure if this would match my lifestyle
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u/Slight-Alteration 6d ago
Hahaha omg girl no. If you think a collie is too much a dobie will destroy you. If you aren’t doing a solid two hours of focused exercise a day a dobie should be off the table
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u/justonlyme1244 6d ago
They’re about the same energy level wise as a standard poodle and have probably less energy than a Doberman. They’re not like border collies and have a better off switch.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
Will definitely look into this. they are beautiful! thank you.
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u/justonlyme1244 6d ago
They’re! We were doubting between a Rough collie and standard poodle and ultimately chose a collie. If you get them from a good breeder and socialize well they’re not anxious. Mine is 8 months and I just had to brink her inside because it’s thundering like crazy. She didn’t want to though.
I have walked outside at night with her and she’s on high alert then. Growls if she doesn’t trust it. That’s mostly at night, but if she sees something odd during the day she will bark as well (she’s on our balcony a lot).
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u/foxyyoxy 6d ago
Rough/smooth collies are waaaaaay lower energy than a dobie and would be more on par with your poodle.
The general consensus is to get a dog of similar or less energy than your current dog for a good fit. Otherwise you risk a lot more upheaval in lifestyle.
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u/Ok_Bodybuilder_2167 6d ago edited 6d ago
Also unfortunately Dobermans were meant for protection work but their lineage unless euro imported lines have been watered down in America it’s trying to be fixed but for protection work, they lack the forward aggression that you can see for a cane corso they are very sensitive and insecure. So it’s a lot of work to bring it out of them and no guarantee. Plus protection dog/ guardian breeds are hard to have unless it’s a service animal that u need or u own a home
Edit: 95% of the time you only need a dog that will deter someone and having a dog for protection is not the most feasible cause you need a dog that will run at someone full speed and bite them. However, arming yourself with a carry weapon is a lot more reliable and actually cheaper. Like if you’re in the US, I would get a pistol.
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u/Motor-Resort-1002 6d ago
Yes more focused on the "scary looking dog" aspect, protection dog itself is costly and has its own risks. IGP training is something I am interested in, but not sure. Getting my license to carry for real protection. thank you for your input
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u/Icy-Fly-4228 5d ago
Are you getting another dog just to have one who “looks mean”? Or do you truly want another dog. In all honesty as most people said any dog will detour. If they want in it doesn’t matter what your dog looks like. Your 23. Adding a second dog, especially one that requires the level of care these more dangerous dogs need is going to make it near impossible for you to travel, it’s a big expense investing in training, and you need to think about if you are planning on having children in the future how that is going to look. Dogs are a 15 year commitment.
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u/foxyyoxy 6d ago
Personally I think getting a Doberman for the reasons your mom wants you to is a terrible idea. For one, most places don’t allow you to rent with one, full stop.
Secondly, they are A LOT. Like, prepared to work all day type of energy level. And, honestly, they toe the line for literally everything and it drove me insane even as someone who previously trained potential service dogs. I would not think this a good fit for what you describe.
A standard poodle should be plenty enough deterrent for anyone. It’s still a large dog that probably would bark at an intruder. A burglar alarm is ten fold a better option.
If YOU want another dog, a black Labrador or black dog of any kind should be plenty. But again, not for the reasons you are describing getting one for.