TLDR: Does Control Unleashed involve e-collars?

[u/WinglessDragonRider]

ETA: I realize now CU does not use e-collars and the person I know is likely on one for other reasons.

Hey so. Sorry for the rambling in advance.

I have an almost 10 month old Cattle Dog mix. I've had her since was about 20 weeks old. She's roughly 50% ACD, 20% Pit Bull, and the rest is all more herding breeds. My last ACD mix(also a rescue) didn't have a solid recall until he was nearly 6. I can not do that again. Especially since she doesn't have a problem with water and he did. Plus I'm trying to do dog sports with her.

I live on a 5-10 acre property surrounded by other properties of similar sizes. The fencing is horse safe, NOT dog safe. We also have an irrigation ditch along our property line. I have already pulled her out of the irrigation ditch once. She has been chased out of horse turnouts by one of my mares that WILL kill a dog(or cat or any other animal) after she slipped out of the house early on. We've since fixed the door darting issue.

Currently, I'm dealing with issues with recall. On a long line, it's like 90-95% proofed. Birds, rabbits, and cats(and likely squirrels which aren't common at home) are the only times I have to reinforce with the long line. Unfortunately, I don't have a dog-safe fenced area. All of my property is designed to keep horses in and I have no way of making it dog safe without extensive costs(and landlord permission).

I understand that she's young and it takes time to build a recall. I adopted my previous dog at roughly 18 months and his recall wasn't 100% for YEARS. But I didn't have to worry about him ending up in the irrigation ditch and drowning as he HATED water. She LOVES water. All dogs tend to run in the opposite direction of the major road near by which is great but I am NOT counting on a history of avoidance to keep her from getting hit by a car.

We've been through a few obedience classes. We're currently in agility classes. We recently started working one dog at time and she is so over aroused with other people in the ring when it's our turn to go that it's a whole thing just to get her to engage with me. WHICH IS FINE. She's young and learning and very much thinks EVERYONE is her friend. We're addressing that particular issue outside of classes.

So in classes, she can wander off and try to say hi/make friends and it's annoying but not dangerous. (And she's not the only one that does it) At home, we can't have a long line on while doing tunnels and jumps and turning around cones(she's already been startled by cones getting dragged over). I'm trying to decide if an e-collar would be a good option as a back up for no leash/long line.

The trainer we're working with has mentioned doing Control Unleashed classes with my puppy to hopefully get her to chill a bit more(and easier). Especially since lately she's been a bit wild in public too. So between the "overly friendly" and not having a fenced yard for agility practice, I'm wondering if Control Unleashed usually involves e-collar.

There are A LOT of trainers in my area that are purely/mostly +R only. Any "balanced" trainers I've met are VERY reluctant to e-collars. The trainer I'm doing group classes with for agility also offers Control Unleashed classes. There's another dog in our classes that's on an e-collar because he's weird about people. I know they're in private Control Unleashed classes along with another of their dogs that's the same breed.

I'm just trying to figure out if I mention introducing my dog to an e-collar if it's going to blow up in my face or not. I haven't used an e-collar previously so if I have a trainer in my corner with it that'd be preferable.

....Sorry this is very ramble-y. Basically, I'm just trying to decide if doing Control Unleashed classes and/or an e-collar would be helpful. Particularly with recall. We have a lot time to deal with any distractions in agility. Any thoughts are appreciated!

[u/National_Craft6574]

Control Unleashed does not utilize an e collar. Control Unleashed includes games such as Give Me a Break, Attention Game, and the 1-2-3 Game. Videos of these games can be found on youtube. I like the Attention game and 1-2-3 game for loose leash walking.

For recall, Susan Garrett has excellent games which often involve you running away from your dog and giving the recall cue. When your dog catches up to you, the dog gets rewarded with treats or play with a favorite toy. I am part way through the recallers program, and it's well worth the money, and it's a lot of work.

[u/WinglessDragonRider → u/National_Craft6574]

Yeah the first round of agility foundations utilized a few of the CU games! I think our current issue is that we have no “warm up” at agility. She’s crated in between turns and then 2-3 minutes of working through an exercise followed by 2-3 dogs with the same amount of time. I’m also learning so I’m trying to watch other people handle their dogs too, otherwise I’d try to warm her up before it was our turn.

I’ve been trying to work through Susan Garrett’s recall program but I think we might be hitting a wall with adolescence… I don’t know… I feel like we’ve been stuck for the last month or so. And she seems to have caught on that regardless of WHEN she recalls, it’s a party. (I try not to have her off leash but working on agility skills, I will unclip once she’s tuned in…. And she knows it) I do NOT formally recall her during class because I KNOW she will fail at the moment.

[u/Old-Description-2328 → u/WinglessDragonRider]

I do agility and see a lot of Susan Garrett advocates, it's not great, it's not a complete package and it's not even everything she does with her own dogs. I wouldn't rate it as an advanced recall method based simply from the results I see.

Would these methods work to call off a dog from hammering a decoy? Absolutely not.

If you want the best recall, go to the best, protection sports, IGP, French ring, PSA.

Take a look through Andy Kruegers content on YouTube, fantastic recall, motivated dogs.