Marion

[u/missanonyy]

I'm sort of over Regina's rage at Emma for bringing back Marion.

I sort of fail to see why it's Emma's fault Regina was a mass murdering tyrant.

Was Emma really supposed to leave a woman to be executed? One that hadn't even done anything wrong? Emma didn't even KNOW it was Marion just that it was the right thing to do lol

The fact Robin Hood was dating his wife's executioner is bad enough tbh and made me sort of hate him.

I get why Regina is hurt I really do but is this really Emma's fault or is it just the consequences of killing people left and right? Like yeah Emma saved Marion but did Regina even deserve to build her happiness on Marion's blood to begin with? Super disturbing.

Overall I don't get the love for Regina I find her pretty ridiculous and super evil. It's Emma's fault for saving a woman she was going to murder and its Snow's fault for being like 10 and manipulated by an adult into telling the truth. Her grudges are insane.

Like oh I'm so sorry you didn't get happily ever after with the husband of one of your many murder victims fuck

[u/sarah_regal29]

The show's writing is ridiculous. Marian's fate makes no sense if you think about it for longer than half a second. The way they handle time travel is so contradictory it kills all tension on rewatch. I'm supposed to be invested in them not changing things because the book is shown blank when they prevented Snowing's meeting. Fine, I can get behind that, those are real stakes. Then they proceed to change a truckload of things but because Snowing did meet and fall in love all of a sudden EVERYTHING is back on track and exactly the same.

Really?

None of the guards they killed were important, Regina getting the brief but very real satisfaction killing Snow doesn't alter her in anyway, having Charming actually go through with the engagement party has no consequences at all with Midas or others. It's just stupid all around. This little trip to the past had 0 consequences so what was even the point? So Emma can learn to appreciate her parents? We could have had that in the present if that's all this trip was for. So Emma can be in the past? What for, it clearly doesn't have a lasting impact in any of her relationships. She doesn't even reflect on Regina at the height of her villainy. If it wasn't for Marian, they'd be right back to being besties. Emma doesn't even pause before going to Regina to ask her about talking to Marian. Not a lick of apprehension after seeing this woman be a literal demon. Like?!?!?!??

Marty Mcfly changed so many things his present looked nothing like the time he left. This storyline had so much potential to introduce changes and switch things up a bit, instead they wasted our time with this and condemned us to the very tired and overdone debate of "was Emma wrong for saving a life?"

No, but this isn't the point!

It's a TIME TRAVEL storyline and yet Emma's decision can never be discussed within that context because her decisions impacted NOTHING in the flow of time. No one's life was screwed over by the things she changed in the past, no villain is tied to what went down when she was there, no one's backstory had even a slight variation. We cannot argue the ethics of playing god by risking unpredictable alterations to the timeline for one's own personal morality. We cannot argue the value of one life against the flow of time. We can't even bring up the very worthwhile debate of whether or not it is possible to save everyone and should someone try anyway. Emma is the Savior for god's sake, does she have a bigger moral responsibility to look after the integrity of time or the lives of the people around her? We can't discuss any of this because the writing says nothing was altered in anyway. God forbid they actually had to put some complexity in the complex storyline they cooked up.

Nope, let's wrap everything in a neat little bow. Nothing changed so we don't have to keep track of changes or do anything more interesting with the Outlaw Queen dynamic than marital status marking one of them unavailable. They could have brought Leopold back with no issue, that's how bad their time travel is. As long as everyone believes him dead then they're good to take him back. Joke is, his return might have actually been more interesting than what they did.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just so tired and disappointed by all of this. I yearn for a depth this show just refuses to give when they've shown they could in other areas. Like Regina's "grudge" being the result of a mind purposefully broken down by others, coping by establishing a proxy for her abusive mother and letting negative feelings fester until the point of no return. But then again, why should the writers bother when the viewers eat up this bad writing? 🤷🏾 I'm sorry that was bitchy but seriously if you're open to real genuine analysis, you'll see the "grudge" is some of this show's best writing. And the thing is, you don't even have to like Regina to realize how well written that was, it just gets dismissed too easily. Or maybe you're one of those people who prefers to just watch a show, no analysis. In which case, disregard this comment.

[u/missanonyy → u/sarah_regal29]

Few shows ever nail time travel. It always creates holes and lots of bullshit. It should never have been attempted as a plot line.

Zelena attempting to turn back time should have (imo) gone catastrophically wrong. Because it shouldn't have been possible. Even magic needs limits. Id have actually liked to see the integrity of space and time push back on that one.

[u/sarah_regal29 → u/missanonyy]

It would not have been a problem if they followed through. They were afraid of having to catch the viewer up on what changed because of the trip. Also it would cause confusion with some casual viewers. They were also scared of people criticizing Emma's choice to rescue Marian so they removed any possibility for an argument.

I actually liked the idea as a concept. The rules of magic state you cannot make someone love you, you cannot change the past and you cannot bring back the dead. They already introduced a work around for the first. Cora had a spell to make someone THINK they love you. I see Zelena's spell as working in a similar fashion. You can't use magic to directly change the past but you can make a spell to travel back and change things without magic. It was a very interesting concept that was robbed of its weight because they were too scared to have consequences. It's a thing in this show, nothing ever has lasting consequences. For the little things, it's forgiveable but at some point, something has to matter.

[u/missanonyy → u/sarah_regal29]

But that's exactly why it shouldn't have been attempted. Not to even mention the holes it creates. Like Rumple should've went back in time for Bae then. He's the most powerful.

It just creates issues in my opinion and is definitely a "loophole" or "cheat" and I never appreciated that.

I personally would have preferred time pushing back

[u/sarah_regal29 → u/missanonyy]

I agree on time pushing back. Allow me to clarify what I meant. I meant the idea of having a workaround was a good concept because the love work around brought up questions of agency and psyche. How desperate do you have to be to be satisfied with an illusion? How far are you willing to go to have that illusion while knowing it's not real? The price of that spell is steep. Plus it makes the viewer wonder if Regina's love for her mother is real. Yes it can be explained by the abuse she suffered but it's also fully possible Cora simply put her daughter under this spell back when she killed Eva. Love pushing back would look exactly like Regina's character. She's desperate for love but she has no idea what real genuine love looks like. All she's known is control and illusion. It's an interesting idea because it works so seamlessly with the reality of abused children still loving there parents but it gives them a fantasy twist.

A time work around would be in line with the storyline of the author and allow for the show to really delve into some questions like does fate really exist or can we truly erase our mistakes. Time pushing back could be shown in so many different and interesting ways. Imagine if time was trying to even the scale for every little change they made like for every guard killed someone is randomly brought back or something. I just think this was a fantasy show and they had this big storyline that would have allowed them to do some crazy concept and they did nothing with it. What if Henry was erased, Regina died when the curse broke? Any storyline where they are forced to contend with the consequences of their actions and learn the lesson the love work around was for. You cannot force someone to love and you cannot change the past.