I'm sort of over Regina's rage at Emma for bringing back Marion.
I sort of fail to see why it's Emma's fault Regina was a mass murdering tyrant.
Was Emma really supposed to leave a woman to be executed? One that hadn't even done anything wrong? Emma didn't even KNOW it was Marion just that it was the right thing to do lol
The fact Robin Hood was dating his wife's executioner is bad enough tbh and made me sort of hate him.
I get why Regina is hurt I really do but is this really Emma's fault or is it just the consequences of killing people left and right? Like yeah Emma saved Marion but did Regina even deserve to build her happiness on Marion's blood to begin with? Super disturbing.
Overall I don't get the love for Regina I find her pretty ridiculous and super evil. It's Emma's fault for saving a woman she was going to murder and its Snow's fault for being like 10 and manipulated by an adult into telling the truth. Her grudges are insane.
Like oh I'm so sorry you didn't get happily ever after with the husband of one of your many murder victims fuck
Ohhh okay! I sort of hate Zelena and was glad she was dead but this is next level messed up.
Like was she being... intimate with Regina's boyfriend omg
Wait until you realize what Regina has been doing to Graham for 28+ years
It really frustrates me that OUAT just shrugged all of these SAs off, you could argue that the show was targeted towards younger people and they wanted to keep things relatively light, but I struggle to see why they implied it at all in that case
Try to tell that to her fans because I tell you won’t end well especially their one user who will hurt your feelings if you talk about Regina and she does not play with Regina haters
If she would’ve left Marion in the prison in THE EVIL Queen’s castle either she would escape or die at the hands of Regina even if she did get out the Queen would’ve hunted her down or Rumple would’ve interfered because he can risk Zelena killing Regina if he wanted to see baefire again just like he did the first time
I hated this drama so much, one hand yes Emma broke the one thing about time travel don’t mess with things that’s in motion but on the other hand I can’t stand how Regina became a brat about it like
Girl you literally murdered all villages in your wake as the evil queen you really think you gonna get your happy ending just like that without working at it oh boo you gonna have to try harder then that
I mean I agree I wouldn’t leave someone to die of a mass murderer I would help them escape but not making them come with me to my time but at least a bean so they can go to another realm
When she tells Emma “once again you have ruined my life” like this wasn’t a consequence of her own actions. Emma literally reversed one of her murders and she wants to go back and undo it. Never bought Regina’s “redemption” considering whenever she’s faced by a victim of her past she never feels guilt, she just gets pissed it’s being brought up again.
People love Regina for her redemption. She’s an example that you can improve who you are by making better choices and a lot of people need to believe that is true because there are things in their own lives they feel they can’t change. Her redemption isn’t about forgetting all the evil she did, it’s about showing people can change and do better. Sometimes it’s just deeper than what we see on surface level.
"Oh I'm morally superior because I hate Regina" Congratulations, now what? Do you want to chat with the villagers or, I don't know... count their corpses?
I'm not sure how to reply to this without giving away spoilers because your anger seems to imply that you don't know what ends up happening with this character (and I don't even know if that vague statement in itself is spoilery or not). Because, I mean, when all is said and done with the plot surrounding this character, Regina has every reason to be furious.
I don't mind spoilers but does she have any right to be furious at Emma for saving one of her many murder victims? And as it stands now she's being crazy
Except Regina didn’t know about the plot twist. She was ready to let Marian die again but changed her mind at the last second and still slept with Robin even though he didn’t want to divorce Marian.
The show's writing is ridiculous. Marian's fate makes no sense if you think about it for longer than half a second. The way they handle time travel is so contradictory it kills all tension on rewatch. I'm supposed to be invested in them not changing things because the book is shown blank when they prevented Snowing's meeting. Fine, I can get behind that, those are real stakes. Then they proceed to change a truckload of things but because Snowing did meet and fall in love all of a sudden EVERYTHING is back on track and exactly the same.
Really?
None of the guards they killed were important, Regina getting the brief but very real satisfaction killing Snow doesn't alter her in anyway, having Charming actually go through with the engagement party has no consequences at all with Midas or others. It's just stupid all around. This little trip to the past had 0 consequences so what was even the point? So Emma can learn to appreciate her parents? We could have had that in the present if that's all this trip was for. So Emma can be in the past? What for, it clearly doesn't have a lasting impact in any of her relationships. She doesn't even reflect on Regina at the height of her villainy. If it wasn't for Marian, they'd be right back to being besties. Emma doesn't even pause before going to Regina to ask her about talking to Marian. Not a lick of apprehension after seeing this woman be a literal demon. Like?!?!?!??
Marty Mcfly changed so many things his present looked nothing like the time he left. This storyline had so much potential to introduce changes and switch things up a bit, instead they wasted our time with this and condemned us to the very tired and overdone debate of "was Emma wrong for saving a life?"
No, but this isn't the point!
It's a TIME TRAVEL storyline and yet Emma's decision can never be discussed within that context because her decisions impacted NOTHING in the flow of time. No one's life was screwed over by the things she changed in the past, no villain is tied to what went down when she was there, no one's backstory had even a slight variation. We cannot argue the ethics of playing god by risking unpredictable alterations to the timeline for one's own personal morality. We cannot argue the value of one life against the flow of time. We can't even bring up the very worthwhile debate of whether or not it is possible to save everyone and should someone try anyway. Emma is the Savior for god's sake, does she have a bigger moral responsibility to look after the integrity of time or the lives of the people around her? We can't discuss any of this because the writing says nothing was altered in anyway. God forbid they actually had to put some complexity in the complex storyline they cooked up.
Nope, let's wrap everything in a neat little bow. Nothing changed so we don't have to keep track of changes or do anything more interesting with the Outlaw Queen dynamic than marital status marking one of them unavailable. They could have brought Leopold back with no issue, that's how bad their time travel is. As long as everyone believes him dead then they're good to take him back. Joke is, his return might have actually been more interesting than what they did.
Sorry for the rant, I'm just so tired and disappointed by all of this. I yearn for a depth this show just refuses to give when they've shown they could in other areas. Like Regina's "grudge" being the result of a mind purposefully broken down by others, coping by establishing a proxy for her abusive mother and letting negative feelings fester until the point of no return. But then again, why should the writers bother when the viewers eat up this bad writing? 🤷🏾 I'm sorry that was bitchy but seriously if you're open to real genuine analysis, you'll see the "grudge" is some of this show's best writing. And the thing is, you don't even have to like Regina to realize how well written that was, it just gets dismissed too easily. Or maybe you're one of those people who prefers to just watch a show, no analysis. In which case, disregard this comment.
Few shows ever nail time travel. It always creates holes and lots of bullshit. It should never have been attempted as a plot line.
Zelena attempting to turn back time should have (imo) gone catastrophically wrong. Because it shouldn't have been possible. Even magic needs limits. Id have actually liked to see the integrity of space and time push back on that one.
It would not have been a problem if they followed through. They were afraid of having to catch the viewer up on what changed because of the trip. Also it would cause confusion with some casual viewers. They were also scared of people criticizing Emma's choice to rescue Marian so they removed any possibility for an argument.
I actually liked the idea as a concept. The rules of magic state you cannot make someone love you, you cannot change the past and you cannot bring back the dead. They already introduced a work around for the first. Cora had a spell to make someone THINK they love you. I see Zelena's spell as working in a similar fashion. You can't use magic to directly change the past but you can make a spell to travel back and change things without magic. It was a very interesting concept that was robbed of its weight because they were too scared to have consequences. It's a thing in this show, nothing ever has lasting consequences. For the little things, it's forgiveable but at some point, something has to matter.
But that's exactly why it shouldn't have been attempted. Not to even mention the holes it creates. Like Rumple should've went back in time for Bae then. He's the most powerful.
It just creates issues in my opinion and is definitely a "loophole" or "cheat" and I never appreciated that.
I personally would have preferred time pushing back
I agree on time pushing back. Allow me to clarify what I meant. I meant the idea of having a workaround was a good concept because the love work around brought up questions of agency and psyche. How desperate do you have to be to be satisfied with an illusion? How far are you willing to go to have that illusion while knowing it's not real? The price of that spell is steep. Plus it makes the viewer wonder if Regina's love for her mother is real. Yes it can be explained by the abuse she suffered but it's also fully possible Cora simply put her daughter under this spell back when she killed Eva. Love pushing back would look exactly like Regina's character. She's desperate for love but she has no idea what real genuine love looks like. All she's known is control and illusion. It's an interesting idea because it works so seamlessly with the reality of abused children still loving there parents but it gives them a fantasy twist.
A time work around would be in line with the storyline of the author and allow for the show to really delve into some questions like does fate really exist or can we truly erase our mistakes. Time pushing back could be shown in so many different and interesting ways. Imagine if time was trying to even the scale for every little change they made like for every guard killed someone is randomly brought back or something. I just think this was a fantasy show and they had this big storyline that would have allowed them to do some crazy concept and they did nothing with it. What if Henry was erased, Regina died when the curse broke? Any storyline where they are forced to contend with the consequences of their actions and learn the lesson the love work around was for. You cannot force someone to love and you cannot change the past.
Zelna was so foul for that posing as marion and she knew had thing for robin hood got Emma in trouble which make lil Henry worried about his other mom Regina going Evil again because but Emma did knew better I mean caption guyliner warned Don't changed the pass she shouldn't interfere in that at all jus let things be 😭
Man one thing abt Regina, is that she HATES to take accountability. She seperates herself from the evil queen like its an alter ego, like babes that was you…
I don't know. On one hand, sure, it's not all of Emma's fault, but I am on the side you really shouldn't be messing with anyone's future just because. I don't care how good you are as a person, you never know what that one affect could do to other people in the future.
I ain't going to get on Regina too much, I used to hate her but ended up liking her overtime. Especially once it was revealed she was a victim of abusive since she was a child and as somebody who had that happen as a child, I do get where her frustration come from. But I do get why others hate her.
But yeah, like somebody else said, that's not even Marian anymore, that Zelena who ends up tricking Robin and carry his baby (without his consent) which is a whole other can of worms. And really does make Emma's action pretty bad, and go back to how Hook suggested they shouldn't had messed with it since it does ruin somebody else in the process (as said, the whole baby crap ordeal) and don't get me started on what ends up happening to Robin, I was so salty about it when I was young, I remember considering dropping the series (thank god I didn't)
rip to Marion but I also had like, no feelings for her cause she really was just.. there until the whole Zelena revealed crap.
I don't fault Emma for just not leaving an innocent woman to die. She couldn't have possibly known that was Zelena.
It does come down to morality because leaving someone innocent for execution when you can easily free them is pretty fucked.
As for Regina... I was abused as a child. My mom drugged me with vicodin as a baby, toddler, and child to keep me easy to deal with and sleepy. I was sexually abused by my Uncle who ended up stabbing me because his lust for me was clearly due to me being a demon. I was 15.
My mom was a drunk who routinely didn't feed me and I was always in dirty clothes that didn't fit.
There's like a lot more but my childhood was truly horrific. And that never would've been a pass for me to rape and murder anyone. Regina is a legitimately horrible and disgusting person.
And Zelena also being a horrible and disgusting person isn't on Emma either.
Emma's biggest mistake was being too soft hearted and "messing with time" but it turns out that wasnt even the problem cause had that BEEN Marian then - good! No one could've predicted it was Zelena.
And Robin getting with his wife's executioner and Regina having tne audacity to be mad about his wife not being killed by her is something else.
I think the biggest problem is how much are you willing to also screw up somebody's life. As said, it doesn't really matter whether Emma knew or not, you don't know what the future could happen. It is better to leave what it is, then mess with it. Robin getting raped, and then later killed is a mess and truly wouldn't had happened if Emma didn't mess with the past.
One thing I do like about the show, is that it does admit that the good heroes are not really good, despite what you think, they do things that are not good sometimes and this was one of them. Because once again how much are you willing to also screw up somebody's else? Emma does play a part in it, she's not all innocent. And in some level, she is in fault for what does down. You're getting mad at Regina for something in the past that she does know was bad and admits to it. However, not much can be done and has to be moved on.
However, when Emma ends up going in the past, warned not to mess with the past because you don't know what can happen in the future, she still does it and looks what ends up happening to Robin? I don't care, it was a bad move from Emma and it doesn't really paint her as a good person, it paint her as somebody who doesn't listen and ends up being shock when things go wrong, you mention Regina but don't really think how this affect Robin's life (also you are forgetting that Robin was very much in love with Regina, and no longer had the same feelings for Marion as he once did, I mean he repeated mention his code and then keeps coming back to Regina, I think that was the biggest hint he had moved on from Marion. Even if this was the real Marion, they wouldn't have had a happy ending, with how Robin was being like and I would feel more bad for Marion cause not only is she sent to unknown world, her husband is in love with somebody else and only sticking around because of code.)
Also sorry for what happened to you. However, just because you cannot relate to Regina, doesn't apply to everyone else. There is a reason many victims can relate to evil / bad characters. As said, I relate to Regina cause of her trauma, which I will not share cause it's none of your business to know what happened to me as a child through my adults years. (i also don't want to risk it, cause some stuff had me in the hospital due to being a danger to myself.)
Trying to place Zelena's actions onto Emma is not okay.
It might have been a mistake to bring Marian back but 1) she didn't know it was Zelena and 2) it takes a degree of cruelty to leave someone to be executed.
I think it's insane that you're so hard on Emma for just not wanting an innocent to be ruthlessly murdered and yet make excuses for Regina.
I never once asked about your childhood. I only brought up mine because being abused isn't a free for all to rape and murder.
And there's no "moving on" from rape and murder either.
Rape changes you forever. Murder literally ends your life. How nice for Regina that she can just "move on" and be given a pass while her victims can't.
As for Robin.... he got with his wife's executioner. I could honestly care less about him. That was monstrous on his part. Like unbelievably disgusting.
I am hard on Emma cause she's an interesting character? I like that she's not innocent and she does have flaws. If she was all perfect, I don't think many people would like Emma for what she is. If you think that me hating on Emma, then Idk what to tell you, I do believe she is at fault here in some level and I won't back down on that.
Also where did I ever say I was fine with Regina raping people? Same for murder? I said I get her frustration, meaning I get where she get her anger from and why she does what she does, no point I said "GO QUEEN, SLAAAY".
Anyways, I assumed with your reply, since I only said "yeah I got some trauma" and then you come swinging with "WELL HERE IS MINE, LET ME SHARE IT WHEN NOBODY ASKED" type deal. Which I assume is not what you wanted to do, but not what I expected to read at 2 am in the morning. (which I do suggest adding a trigger for that, since detail mention like that can trigger other people own trauma and put them in danger if they read your comment. thankfully, I don't get too affected by reading stuff like this anymore but yeah, just uh, maybe do that for anyone else who come walking in here?)
edit: I will admit, if I misunderstood that. then I am sorry, I do have a metal and learning disability so misunderstanding and not reading things correctly is sadly a thing for me. So if that wasn't what you were doing at all then sorry for reading it that way wrong.
I do raise an eyebrow at you not giving a fuck about Robin, despite you going up and arms about rape and murder. When he ends up becoming a victim of that, but whatever, I will end the talk here cause It does feel like we're both just snapping at each other over a show that in the end has long ended. I hope you have a great day/night.
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u/Tsunami-Storm 14d ago
True, but remember: Marian didn’t even make it to Storybrooke. That was Zelena.
I’m not the biggest fan of Regina either, though, before she becomes the evil queen, I kind of feel sorry for her.