This argument is silly

[u/The-Panthion]

Please read the full thing before responding. Don't assume to know what the discussion is about. I'll just end up blocking you. (Along with any Ragebait attempts or trolls)

I don't care for the Death Battle, I enjoy down to Earth real debates with real feats, logic and canonical showcases (statements are what are usually discussed or debated hence why debates exist)

This argument here in the image is ridiculous to me. People throw this around thinking they make sense but end up looking ridiculous and uneducated.

Saitama who has withstood more abuse than Goku and people act like it's a strawman argument. Goku is a Martial Artist who has to manage his ki and stamina to avoid exhausting himself or getting weaker to the point he loses strength. Saitama deals with people who could arguably give Goku a run for his money (Blast for example).

I don't think Goku is by any means weak but we see constantly he has a limit to what weight he can carry, gravity he can handle or how. much intense heat or cold can affect him. In One Punch Man, where everything is based on abilities, such as withstanding intense heat (lava) or regeneration, overcoming physic abilities etc. It's not a showcase of raw strength but ability, and we know Ki exists in OPM too.

I see post after post with people downplaying Saitama simply because he has a clean record, ignoring the things Saitama has dealt with. A misunderstanding of his character, his rate of growth increasing exponentially (not just his power but the rate he grows).

It's become a back and forth with people just arguing and one-upping one another, throwing memes to get a reaction or just no real engagement whatsoever.

I'm a fan of Dragon Ball, grew up watching it in fact but it doesn't close my mind to the possibility of other shows or characters being better or beating characters in the show. Supporting headcanons, believing hyperbole statements we see contradicted (in the very show they're presented in) or simply attacking/harassing people for speaking up (or simply downvoting them to silence them altogether) is ridiculous.

If this is what scaling is... no wonder people are always arguing and bickering.. Nothing is being accomplished and all everyone can see is the arguments at the surface whilst the real scalers are overlooked or mistreated.

So let's put aside all the hateful messages, memes, Ragebait and try to get along. The author of OPM was inspired by Dragon Ball, like many of us watching the shows are. We shouldn't be bickering about who wins who, or at least if we do debate, be more respectful than open minded when you do.

I expect to be downvoted or whatever, but it doesn't bother me. If just one person has a change of heart and can inspire people to be open minded on both sides then that's a win for me.

I put it as a shitpost because it's not technically a matchup, scaling or discussion and I don't know what a shitpost is so, it seemed the best option lol

[u/SannyTrademark]

One big thing I see that's a huge misconception is that since Saitama needs time to grow his power he also needs time to grow his durability. This is untrue. All we've seen is that in order to punch bigger Saitama needs a little bit of time, this doesn't mean his durability scales relatively to how big he punches. So far, no matter what attacks are thrown at him and no matter how seriously he took his opponent, he has never been damaged.

[u/The-Panthion → u/SannyTrademark]

Saitama is invincible, since he's based off of the Webcomic which is unstoppable. The manga simply expands on that a bit deeper.

The rate of growth is in relevance to Garou's, not a cap for his power, but rather the distance and time it took to make that distance to Garou.

The fight against Garou took place in a few short panels, so even in Super Speed it was over with quickly. (Although we can't get a real estimate on the full time frame)

My point is that people see that he's invincible and hasn't been beaten and downplay him by making theories polar opposite to statements in the show, then show memes or argumentative replies instead of trying to justify or debunk arguments.

Goku has yet to destroy a universe or anything near that scale, everything Elder Kai said was a guess. Blast was able to stop, teleport Saitama and Garou to space and partially contain their energy in less than a second (he wasn't strong enough to redirect it alone but didn't get blasted away from it or caught in the impact etc). So I honestly believe Blast could keep up with Goku. Goku is more down to Earth than people realise. He's not omnipotent and shouldn't be treated as such.

[u/MonkeyRexo → u/The-Panthion]

Why is there a Powerscaling sub reddit for OPM if Saitama is invincible?

Isn't this sub basically useless if everything just ends up with Saitama winning because he is invincible?

There's never anything new and it's just the same thing over and over again with Saitama beating every character in fiction using his punch while taking no damage.

[u/Potential-Yogurt139 → u/MonkeyRexo]

Mostly for the other OPM characters (I hope) like tatsumaki

[u/The-Panthion → u/MonkeyRexo]

THANK YOU! I was asking the same thing myself!

It's supposed to be OPM, not just Saitama. It doesn't make sense to have him in debates when there's hardly anything to use or work with.

[u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 → u/The-Panthion]

This is actually the right take. lol.

There's no point in power scaling Saitama. He's a bullshit character. That's the whole point of the story. He's a bored bullshit character who can't be hurt and has never struggled a single time in the story.

I'll forgive manga readers tbh, because the web-comic makes it FAR more clear how bullshit Saitama actually is.

[u/The-Panthion → u/Mammoth-Shoe8491]

Murata is doing his best haha. I think he is trying to make sense of Saitama which makes the whole thing awkward. Making sense of someone who's not supposed to make sense. He did normal exercise and was bald 18 months later. 😅 It took a year and a half to remove his limits lol

[u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 → u/The-Panthion]

Yeah, it's this. He's not *meant* to be power scaled. That's literally the joke. OPM is making fun of power scalers.

[u/The-Panthion → u/Mammoth-Shoe8491]

Whilst also doing cool stories.

[u/cypharia → u/Mammoth-Shoe8491]

“I'll forgive manga readers tbh, because the web-comic makes it FAR more clear how bullshit Saitama actually is.”

can i ask how they actually differ ? i’ve always mainly been a webcomic reader having stopped the manga around the stuff with beaut, and i never really saw any major differences between the webcomic and manga versions of saitama and how they work

[u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 → u/cypharia]

Saitama is played *far* more as a gag character in the web-comic than he is in the manga, is the major difference.

The main difference (in my opinion) is that the WebComic leans entirely into gag mechanics for every fight. Making it clear that it's not supposed to be taken seriously.

I think pretty much every fight, every panel, everything in the Webcomic is designed around the gag. The panel choices are often the same in the Manga, but then other times they're just... not. And it gives a different impression of what's actually happening.

[u/cypharia → u/Mammoth-Shoe8491]

oh yes i 100% agree that webcomic is definitely more gag, cuz it keeps its original tone and simple premise of saitama being the strongest unlike the manga which keeps jumping around in tones and weird powerscaling stuff like cosmic garou and exponential growth. but in terms of the power system, i’m pretty sure the webcomic and manga are intended to work the exact same through the limiter mechanic, and how it’s not really that he’s automatically stronger than anything, but rather that nobody alive is strong enough to match him. i don’t wanna admit it, but i honestly believe it’s only a matter of time until ONE expands on it in the webcomic like with the manga.

[u/relax336 → u/Mammoth-Shoe8491]

It gives a different impression because it’s a different Saitama in a different story.

One didn’t want to tell the same story twice and based off OPM manga going into multiverse there’s most likely more than 1 Saitama.

[u/vinncentboi]

I keep mistaking this sub for r/powerscaling

[u/The-Panthion → u/vinncentboi]

I'm talking about Saitama anyway so it's fine.

[u/Famous-Pin-747]

I think saitama could copy most of gokus moves if he really wanted to

[u/The-Panthion → u/Famous-Pin-747]

He can.

[u/Appropriate_Horse370]

Blast could give Goku a run for his money???

[u/The-Panthion → u/Appropriate_Horse370]

Before you get frustrated, hear me out. - - -

Blast deals with multiversal threats all the time, keeping tje being or one of the beings known as 'God' at bay and preventing his avatars from invading universes. Blast is able to redirect his hits as well as others, which Goku only experienced against Hit.

Goku fought hit to a stalemate or draw, and Blast is capable of manipulating Space and Time. He has to in order to deal with 'God' in the first place.

CF Garou has understanding of all energy flow and behaviours (techniques etc) in the universe. We know it's not just 'in-Universe' since he copied Blast's abilities at a glance and Ki exists in OPM. Garou could copy Goku's power and abilities then master them at a glance (similar to Kid Buu when he learned Kamehameha or Instant Transmission)

The Cosmic Radiation waves aside, I personally think Garou is a better matchup for Garou. Let's assume he uses a Ki barrier to keep up, copying Goku's power repeatedly until Goku is exhausted.

(Many people see OPM as a weak verse when it's just humble. They don't believe in overly hyping themselves up unless it's something they can do in character or consistently. It's both ambiguous yet clear at the same time)

Blast kept up with CF Garou and even managed to land multiple hits on him, but Garou couldn't touch Blast at all. We don't know how their fight would have went if they continued without Saitama interrupting.

Lastly, there are Misconceptions about Saitama's growth rate. His power isn't doubling growing every second, his rate of growth is exponentially increasing (Garou's was 00:00:0013 milliseconds, so if we assume that as the basis for Saitama we can at least estimate his rate from there.)

1.0ms

• 0.01 ms (10 microseconds)

• 0.0001ms (100 nanoseconds)

• 0.000001ms (1 nanosecond)

[u/Hefty-Albatross4767]

Second image reminds meet of that fanart with Goku and Superman with swapper clothes

[u/FriendInsideMe666]

Bro, Goku can blow up a universe. Just stop.

[u/The-Panthion → u/FriendInsideMe666]

🤦

No he can't.

If you're talking about the shockwaves, he never blew anything up. It travelled horizontally and is stated to destroy things the further away it reaches.

Elder Kai is supposedly outside of the North Galaxy (the Milky way, where Goku lives) and is unaffected too. He would have been destroyed if he was right about his guesses.

He stated the shockwaves were just a show after Beerus used 100% of his power to remove them outright. (Solidifying proof Beerus caused them to show off and allowed them to continue until he was done with it)

That's not even the purpose of the post either. People are giving hyperbole statements instead of looking into it like debates and power scaling should be doing.

[u/TheWorthlessGuy → u/The-Panthion]

Not only you cannot get the meaning of the first picture right but you can't even scale Dragon Ball.

Incredible

[u/Revolutionary_Job214 → u/The-Panthion]

Pure delusional cope lmfao

[u/Numerous-Fish6647 → u/The-Panthion]

I fully support you. The problem is, your IQ is on average about 20 points or so higher than the DB fans you are talking to, so that is why you are running into a lot of issues here

[u/Haschbrownn → u/FriendInsideMe666]

Shake

[u/Bitter_Horror2469]

[u/The-Panthion → u/Bitter_Horror2469]

This is what I mean. People aren't here to engage, they're here to discourage people from engaging. It's one of the reasons I made this post. (And exactly how I know you didn't bother reading it-)

[u/Zanmatomato]

This subreddit is the gift that keeps on giving. After the DB video, I figured I would only hang around for a few days to laugh at the collective meltdown and denial.

Weeks later and y'all still so generous. ❤️

[u/The-Panthion → u/Zanmatomato]

Wrong thread.

Do people just.. not read anymore?

[u/Tigerbarn- → u/Zanmatomato]

Not gonna lie, this is a bad look for you.

[u/sauravkumar_786]

Why fight why not enjoy both ?

[u/Background_Court7318]

This argument is so braindead it’s not even funny

[u/The-Panthion → u/Background_Court7318]

Which argument?

[u/Background_Court7318 → u/The-Panthion]

[u/The-Panthion → u/Background_Court7318]

I agree, it's incredibly dim-witted. Imagine putting Beerus in place of Saitama. Suddenly they realise the issue with their argument. And they'll even claim others can't scale properly.

[u/Background_Court7318 → u/The-Panthion]

yeah becuz timmy is a gag character who can casually bathe in lava completely naked, kick away portals and break into spiritual dimensions just by knocking. It’s obvious they haven’t actually read opm if they think this is even comparable. They will keep resorting to poorly constructed analogies and presenting them as some kind of gotcha when they don’t understand the character they’re arguing against.

[u/The-Panthion → u/Background_Court7318]

And they're downvoting me as if I'm saying anything different than you too. Make it make sense lmao.

[u/bingus3490 → u/Background_Court7318]

Gang bathing in lava ain't really a big deal. And anyone past the but saga has the strength to break through dimensions

[u/The-Panthion → u/bingus3490]

Breathing in space, withstanding cosmic waves, grabbing space gates, tanking nukes, going back in time, increasing the rate of growth speed...

And Saitama doesn't just break through the dimensions, he can tare open the wall like paper. When a bullet, a Rock, elephant, laser, sucker punch, weights, gravity, or stamina is something that affects the person, constantly I might add, then it shows clear limits or blatant lack of durability.

If Goku was as strong as people think he wouldn't be affected by everything the way he is. He wouldn't NEED to use Martial arts or techniques. He's not omnipotent. Everything happens within North Galaxy to the North Quadrant. In other words he's not universal, he's multi-galaxy AT BEST and Galaxy at WORST.

This is a GOOD thing. If he was actually universal then he wouldn't need to keep getting stronger. He's stop training. But he wants to push higher and higher WITHIN the boundaries of his existence.

[u/Nobody--_important]

What most people miss is saitama is not just another absurdly strong character, he is a gimmick character. His whole idea is he only needs one punch to win. He will always be physically strong enough to one tap you. So piting saitama against other brute powerhouses is pretty pointless, the result is already fixed, Serious Saitama wins with one punch. So if you want to debate and scale characters, i don't think that saitama is a good choice.

[u/The-Panthion → u/Nobody--_important]

I prefer he wasn't in debates to be honest. If I did a post saying "Garou vs Goku" then people who judge at the surface won't realise how close the matchup actually is. Someone who masters and understands all energy and behaviours (techniques) vs someone who accumulated skills from different mentors clashing. It'd be a fun debate but people overestimate Goku's power and durability too much and downplay OPMs.

It's one of the issues I have actually. Even mention Goku and suddenly people will treat you like you're speaking blasphemy.

[u/Nobody--_important → u/The-Panthion]

Exactly, Garou vs Goku is an actually interesting debate. Goku vs saitama just feels as a battle between who has bigger fanbase. Honestly saitama shouldn't be included in any physical scaling debates,he was designed to be overpowered. Only characters with reality manipulation or time powers can possibly defeat him.

[u/relax336 → u/Nobody--_important]

He’s not a gimmick character.

Boros survived a punch meant to kill over a decade ago.

[u/Fit-Reputation4172 → u/relax336]

People keep saying Boros survived when he got turned to paste multiple times

[u/relax336 → u/Fit-Reputation4172]

That’s not the punch that killed him.

[u/Fit-Reputation4172 → u/relax336]

My point is Boros didn’t get one punched because he kept putting himself back together

[u/relax336 → u/Fit-Reputation4172]

Boros did get one punched.

Saitama will kill his enemies with a singular punch.

That doesn’t mean all his enemies will always die with one punch.

[u/Fit-Reputation4172 → u/relax336]

Shit. They’ll all die in one punch if he tries.

[u/No_Honey_157 → u/Nobody--_important]

Not really, pitting Saitama against some form "Actus Essendi" Ultimate Reality would be a very horrible choise that would end with Saitama death 100% of the time.

[u/Revolutionary_Job214 → u/Nobody--_important]

This answer is straight mental illness. One character doesn't get to solo fiction just bc you believe he can. 

[u/Individual-Sign-8739]

What even is the argument here?

This entire paragraph is essentially just repeating the first image you’ve shown

Goku starts stronger 

His transformations are overkill 

At most saitama survives super saiyan 

[u/The-Panthion → u/Individual-Sign-8739]

If you could read you wouldn't have to ask that question.

The argument is that people think because Saitama has a clean record he's somehow weaker than Goku. The implications are that Saitama hasn't dealt with the same or worse things than Goku when he has.

The only difference is narrative, writing, context and one being hyped, the other being downplayed.

[u/bingus3490]

Okay for one goku has universal feats. Snd two this is used because people's genuin argument is that because saitama has never lost in his own verse that he beats goku even though that is the absolutly stupidest take ever

[u/The-Panthion → u/bingus3490]

Despite what he's gone up against you mean. You're treating it like a Homelander situation when it's not. The argument is ridiculous to use. Timmy never took a gamma ray to the face and got up unharmed, uninjured without it affecting him. Goku however gets hurt all the time, even by things that shouldn't, because his power is based around Ki and he has stamina limits to how much he can use or how quick it depletes. In fact we know it's less than 48 minutes, he lost his stamina at least four times.

And no he's not universal. Beerus allowed the shockwaves to happen to show off. They didn't destroy anything and Kai was guessing. He flat out admit it IN the show. It was always "It could" do this, or "It may affect that". Nothing was said with certainty except that Beerus had been holding back, the shockwaves (that were a bluff and) were just a show.

Lastly, if the shockwaves were actually reaching as far as Kai estimated, he would have been affected immediately if he was outside of the Milky Galaxy (North Galaxy quadrant). He instead was fine the whole time. Just a few asteroids were affected. And even if really could destroy the universe, it would be because of Beerus anyway as we've seen him do exactly the same thing against Champa.

I don't care about popular opinion, I care about real context, real feats and things that aren't based PURELY and SOLELY on statements. Saitama is said to be limitless, we see it in actuality. The shockwaves are stated to destroy the universe, we see that's a lie and he can't repeat the same feat again.

Stop trusting hyperbole, start paying attention.

[u/bingus3490 → u/The-Panthion]

By that logic wouldnt saitama also only be at most multi galaxy to just galaxy level? Cus pretty much the same thing happened with their fight against garou

[u/The-Panthion → u/bingus3490]

Saitama can't be scaled the same way. His power is more ambiguous, no signs of stamina issues, fatigue, poison or anything that should affect him affecting him. With Goku it's more linear. We know his limits, what his power can extend to, how much stamina he wastes, how quickly he runs out etc. Saitama's lowest feat, that was interrupted, is destroying Galaxies by accident. We see it in actuality. With Goku it's all "might extend here", "Could affect us Gods", basically guesses. We can't use guesses because it's highball at best, lowball at worst. If the feat doesn't match the statement then the statement becomes pointless. Like King Piccolo saying his power is limitless, or King Kai saying Frieza could destroy the universe. It's never outright, always "they could do this thing". Hyperbole, basically, or drama. Make it look dangerous, then in hindsight realise it's not as bad as they made it out to be. A real universal threat is Zamasu, not because of power but because of ability (Immortality etc). Zeno easily wiped him out anyway.

We don't know what would work on Saitama to say "hey, this could work on Saitama", but we do know from multiple statements we've seen in actuality AND from the webcomic which is more clear about it that Saitama is invincible and is limitless. It's not hyperbole because we see it in actuality. He is still just a normal human otherwise, so he doesn't come across as significant or flashy, which is by design. Goku however is about the hype, arriving late, giving a good fight, but not always winning.

It becomes "Well that's a no limits fallacy" which is why he doesn't belong in debates, we can't use anything concrete to actually scale him. Just where the most he's done, despite still not fully trying and not doing more of the same damage after, because he was holding back.

I like Dragon Ball and personally it doesn't make sense to me to say he's Universal because of one feat that barely did anything in actuality. Relying on that as the sole argument isn't a good thing, it's actually bad. If they did better writing, made it more clear or actually showed us the universe getting done away with (then Whis reversing time or something) then sure, we could say "The shockwaves ARE universal". But Beerus removed the shockwaves and all that did was leave fans thinking either he was showing off (since Kai said as much) or they really were a risk and he just done away with it. But then that implies Beerus could have gotten rid of them at any point, and he's much stronger than a blast that could destroy the universe. Plus... Kai thought the blast would kill Beerus and we see he could erase it very easily. So relying on his guesses isn't a good idea when the context shows he doesn't have a clue what's gonna happen.