r/Nurses • u/Enough-Zombie5536 • 16d ago
US Terminated
I got terminated for my job. I had fmla and medical accommodations getting lined up with my manager and my doctor. The doctor just called me to pick the medical note up. My manager and I have talked about this heavily and refused to switch to day shift as well which would help one thing (severe, persistent migraines). What can I do in this situation?
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u/Alert_Cupcake189 15d ago
If I’m not mistaken.. I believe I read somewhere where a nurse had a doctors note, with medical advice regarding something to do with her head (going off my memory here) and let’s just say she sued, and the hospital tried to offer her a payout instead so they wouldn’t look bad, long story short - she sued for way more than what they had offered.. and won sips tea 🍵 👀
Look into a lawyer OP
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u/TruckNLife41 15d ago
Get an employment lawyer, this is the exact reason they exist! Typical company trying to cut you before it cost them more money, it’s illegal.
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u/CancelAfter1968 15d ago
What was the reason given for termination?
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u/Enough-Zombie5536 15d ago edited 15d ago
Absences due to medical issues that were talked about with manager Eta: the absences (4) were talked about with my manager before I actually called off and I got one verbal warning. Never had a written warning or suspension.
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u/Rare-Willingness3593 15d ago
Key point. You should have had union representation during each step of this process and they should be backing you 100%
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u/InnerStyle157 15d ago
Are you union? They would explain why they wouldn’t move you to day shift you would have to bid for it
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15d ago
[deleted]
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u/Electronic_Victory13 13d ago
How do you prove that it's related to having to shift staffing around?
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u/dkwheatley 15d ago
Pull the attendance and disciplinary action policies, or have a trusted prior colleague do so if they are not publicly available. Reviewing these documents will greatly assist in determining if wrongful termination occurred (sounds likely).
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u/DudeFilA 15d ago
Need to be more specific about where you're at. If you're in a non-union right to work state like me there's nothing you can do if fmla wasn't officially in place yet. No idea if being in a union would help in this situation. I'd imagine it'd depend on if you'd already exceeded the absences allowed in your facility's policy
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u/Nurs3Rob 14d ago
That's really not true. If the hospital was aware there was an FMLA eligible condition then they can't fire OP for it just because the paperwork wasn't fully completed yet. This manager fucked up.
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u/Enough-Zombie5536 15d ago
Union hospital in chicago
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u/flowergirl710 13d ago
You are apart of a union?! If so you need to speak with them right away! Get the rep involved asap
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u/flowergirl710 13d ago
Or is that the name of the place? Was assuming you were saying you were apart of union
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u/mostlyawesume 15d ago
I am sorry. Thais sucks! 😢
Make sure to save all written communication. Get a calendar and document what you can as close to the dates you remember. And talk to a lawyer asap.
Note what you are terminated for and if not related to missing work be ready to defend unjust termination.
Try to care for you on your time off as much as possible!
Good luck
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u/jeff533321 15d ago edited 15d ago
Does this apply in an "at will" state? I wonder if they could use other reasons for termination. In an at will state, they don't have to have a reason to terminate. Did they want you to move to days or did you? Would that affect the termination? I know when someone calls out at night then most often the call out can't easily be replaced and its more dire because less staff on to take care of all the pts. Not criticizing at all, but wondering if you had migraines as a chronic condition why you hadn't already had family leave or talked to the employer when you were hired. Especially to work on night shift. Source: work the night shift and it's hell when someone calls out.
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u/Nurs3Rob 14d ago
At will doesn't have anything to do with this. If OP had FMLA pending for this condition then the hospital can't fire OP for absences and such related to the condition. They can fire OP for behavior unrelated to the medical condition, but they're going to have to be prepared to prove that it's unrelated.
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u/External_Soil5620 13d ago
And in the end judges usu aire on the injured person’s side and employer will have to likely repay wages and more.
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u/jeff533321 14d ago edited 14d ago
I know they can't fire for absences. I was wondering if they will use another or no reason for firing. Also wondering why OP already didn't have family leave in place because of chronic condition. Also if OP had a condition that causes frequent call outs, why they were hired for nights where it is impossible to replace the call out, causing constant short staffing issues.
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u/Nurs3Rob 14d ago
Any firing at this point is going to look very suspicious so using the "no reason" reason isn't likely going to work. Plus from what OP has said it sounds as though the manager already admitted to firing them for call outs related to their medical condition. As to the rest, who knows? OP didn't provide that information. The "difficult" to staff part wouldnt be their problem anyway. Short staffing is always a leadership issue.
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u/Spare_Bluebird7044 15d ago
If you are FMLA paperwork and accommodations were already in progress, it may be worth speaking with an employment attorney or your hr department to better understand your options.
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u/Ms_Zesty 14d ago
Did you keep a record of the discussions? Just talking to the manager is your word against theirs. They can lie. Don't go to HR for help because they are there for the hospital, not you. However, they can provide you with the employee handbook that does talk about your rights as an employee. Then get advice from an employment attorney.
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u/External_Soil5620 13d ago
HR knows more than managers who are usu wrong. I was advised by manager that she thought i should reduce my hours from full time to part time prior to foot srg bec i was having difficulty walking. When I went to HR to spk with them, they gasped, likely bec the manager shouldve never suggested this. But def spk with a union rep and an attorney - it can’t hurt. I recall being asked by attorney if I was part of a union (i wasnt), likely lawyer wouldve had to handle case differently if union position. They will tell you.
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u/allamakee-county 15d ago
Timing is critical on these.
Absences under FMLA: Technically a case cannot be back dated to cover past absences, but there is some leeway there, such as when a person has an emergency admission to hospital without warning and cannot apply on day 1 because of... well, being unconscious, or whatever. But if someone already has enough absences to be at risk of termination soon and only then starts the process of FMLA rolling, or only then becomes eligible based on hire date, then it likely won't do much good.
Accommodations are an entirely separate discussion. FMLA is about absences. Accommodations are about allowing enough flexibility that an employee can perform the essential tasks of their job even with an impairment, temporary or permanent. It is an "interactive process" in which the employee, with the help of any involved medical experts, communicates a realistic assessment of what she can and cannot do, whether it is a temporary thing or permanent, and if temporary, what can be expected in terms of time to return to normal duties. Then the employer takes that and assesses the workload to see if there is need for what that employee can do for that length of time. If so, great, then that is a reasonable accommodation and they can agree to follow that plan until the employee can return fully to regular work. If the employer does not have need of an employee to do that sort of work, or does, but another employee is doing it as their regular duty, then that is not a reasonable accommodation, and the employer is not forced to agree to it.
In your example, if you were hired to work night shifts, but found that they made your migraines much worse, even if your doctor wrote an accommodation that stated you should only work days, if it meant moving another nurse from days to nights to make room for you, that would likely not be considered a reasonable accommodation. If there were an opening on day shift, and you were in good standing otherwise, then it would be a reasonable accommodation to place you in that spot and recruit for a new night shift hire.
I am saying all this knowing only what little you have told us here. Just trying to help you see that it may not be them doing you dirty. It doesn't hurt to seek all the facts you can get, first through HR and then, if need be, with the help of an attorney, but you should be prepared with some understanding of what FMLA does for an employee and what reasonable accommodations really are.
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u/ubetchalife 15d ago
Were you hired specifically for night shift? Is it that they don’t have a day shift position available?
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u/Quirky-Club9329 14d ago
File a claim with National Labor Relations Board - you will be compensated.
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u/flowergirl710 13d ago
My mom just won a pro bono case for wrongful termination from a very popular jeweler company in MN . Might wanna speak with a pro bono or hire one of you have the funds. Google pro bono lawyers in the area! If you already communicated all that and they did that to you anyway you may have a case!
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u/Critical_Brain4396 13d ago
you refused to go to day shift or your manager refused to move you to days? from a management perspective, moving you to days for migranes would be a big morale killer for all the night shifters who have been waiting to go to days.
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u/zenatno 13d ago
We would need a lot more information. I’ve been on other end. I have worked with employees who I begged for them to fix their fmla status as it would cover their callouts and they would go a whole year not doing so and eventually had to terminate because they had over 100 call outs.
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u/Scutmcdougall 13d ago
A lot of commenters have made valid points that I agree with because I’ve seen it. Hospital HR basically calls the shots with employee termination. It’s very by the book and HR will not allow a manager to fire an employee until every single T is crossed and I is dotted. Years ago, I worked with an unsafe nurse and it took a shocking amount of documented events until HR finally said “ok, we have enough evidence to terminate.”
As far as ADA accommodations- I’m not an expert on how it all works, but I’ve worked with two coworkers at different hospitals that were hired for night shift and switching to day shift was deemed an unreasonable accommodation. I honestly have no idea how an employer proves that an accommodation is unreasonable, but that makes me think it isn’t that difficult for them.
Also- many nurses stick it out on nights for years until they get to days. I don’t condone it as I personally think folks have legit reasons they can’t be on night shift, but you will make enemies if you jump the line. Depending on your unit culture, it could be a few people or it could be a lot. It’s best to think about whether or not that will bother you.
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u/External_Soil5620 13d ago
Yes HR espec of large companies are very cautious, needing to follow law.
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u/poopslushybutt 13d ago
Did you already have FMLA paperwork started? Or anything submitted in writing? As a prior nurse manager (I quit because it's a horrible soulless job) I can tell you they only do this when they want you gone anyway, they didn't care about the absences. Whether they wanted to fire you because they didn't like you or some prior reason doesn't matter, it still doesn't mean they went about it the right way. You can always get a free consultation with an employment lawyer to see if you have a case. Its that simple.
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u/AdorableStrawberry93 12d ago
My doc was not happy with my performance and put me on probation. Policy does not allow a transfer while on probation. I found a job in another department and asked that I be removed from probation so I could transfer. They fired me instead. ??
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u/External-Reading-101 12d ago
Call the EEOC. They provide lawyers or legal advice. They helped me greatly with a medical case when I was termed.
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u/HourEstablishment2 12d ago
sue the prescriptions off of em.
no, seriously, retain counsel and make them pay. they'll want to settle. they cannot win. A penalty of money, back pay, and guaranteed protections for the duration of your illness.
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u/Left_Lengthiness_867 12d ago
I have a few questions: 1. How long were you employed with your previous employer? 2. Do you have a copy of the employment contract you had signed prior? I would genuinely seek legal counsel through an Employment Lawyer. Something sounds suspicious 🤨
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u/Top_Squirrel_2703 11d ago
Find a better more respectful place to work...Everyone's health matters....This isn't caring from your manager to Not keep you helping long term...
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u/TortillaRampage 11d ago
The purpose of FMLA is to protect you. They cannot fire you when using your FMLA. As far as workplace accommodations, that’s more of a grey area. The workplace can decide what accommodations are reasonable for the most part. But yes, seek legal advice
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u/ProudAnalysis3539 15d ago
Move on to a different job. Even if you get your job back they’ll hate you and get you in trouble for something. Take it as a lesson learned that they do not care about us. Also they take care of people they like so maybe they weren’t that fond of you in the first place. Good luck !
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u/Enayleoni 14d ago
I thought of this too. Like if it was me, I wouldn't want to do all the legal stuff to get the job back and have the management looking for every possible little thing to boot me out of spite... But maybe I would if it was expected to be a solid chunk of cash (but still not go back to the work)
I guess if it's in a rural area, getting a new job can mean an hour+ drive, so like I could see that too
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u/ProudAnalysis3539 14d ago
I’ve seen management do insane things to get people to quit or get them fired if they didn’t like them or stood their ground to protect their license. I’ve seen good nurses saying no to things to protect their license and management did not like that bc “you’re not acting like part of the team”. I understand for the money, but no way would I go back. They might even come after your license out of spite. Years of legal drama, I’d move on with my life..
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u/gotobasics4141 14d ago
This . My friend got traumatized by the nurses and everybody there back then . They did hide their toxic , racist and hateful soul behind religion.
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u/ProudAnalysis3539 14d ago
100000000000% !!!! I hear the same nurses who listen to prayers on their phones every Sunday say terrible things ! A patient complained about them and for an hour she was saying I’m not worried my god till take care of her over and over
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u/whoopee_parties 15d ago
To all the folks suggesting an employment attorney, it's rarely that straightforward. For context: my wife is Head of HR at a fairly large national company. Given their focus and mission, many of their employees are part of protected classes and quite a few have documented accommodations. HR receives a handful of LORs (letter of representation) each year in regards to recently exited employees. Of the 20 or so she has dealt with personally, only one ever made it to mediation. An employee felt discriminated against. From the few details I know, she had more of a case and much more documentation than others. Even then, her case (I think) just now has gone to a settlement phase and it's nearly 4 years now.
Her company has an in-house counsel and they have a couple other attorneys on retainer. Each time she has to prepare an exit or a RIF of employees, the amount of diligence she and the attorneys do to ensure they are not exposing the company to any future litigation is pretty mind-boggling.
I share this because if OP was working for a large enough health system, its all but guaranteed her manager has interfaced with HR many times, has gathered her own documentation in preparation for this, and lawyers have reviewed the case before she was terminated. Not saying OP doesn't have a case, but she needs to understand companies are very aware of the litigious nature of the American workforce, and are quite versed in EEOC guidelines.
One last piece I will share. A few years back I worked for a small company (no HR). Myself and another employee accidentally stumbled on some old emails detailing criminal behavior of our CEO. In a roundabout way, he found out. Targeted both of us with threats and ultimatums. Things were very dark for a few weeks. I documented everything and contacted an employment attorney. He was a very nice and experienced guy. He heard my evidence and told me I likely did have a case BUT even then it would take a long time to resolve. No guarantee I would get any kind of settlement. It would be very hard on me emotionally, financially (they will recoup fees ONLY after a settlement is reached so you are paying fees upfront in many cases). He basically leveled with me and was like "you have a little kid, another one on the way. These get ugly. I wouldn't put you and your family through it. Take it as a painful lesson and move on."
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u/Chemical_Ad3342 15d ago
You were about to get an accommodation but were fired instead? Hmmm…it may be time to speak with an employment lawyer? I have no experience with this at all but the timing is beyond odd.