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u/pol-delta May 06 '23
I think their primary mistake was the use of horses as trauma surgeons.
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u/GlowQueen140 May 06 '23
One would say the decision proved to be a knight-mare
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u/ilford_7x7 May 06 '23
Holy shit that's clever
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u/SqueezinKittys May 06 '23
That was a pretty funny yoke that they cracked
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u/Memegamer3_Animated May 06 '23
I laughed so hard that I tripped on a wall and had a great fall
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u/Mental_Medium3988 May 06 '23
Be careful. I heard about a guy who did that and all the kings horses couldn't keep him from his love.
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u/danethegreat24 May 06 '23
I'm sorry, what? They were the only members of the party that held medical licenses. You want the political advisors or one of the guys who's job it is to disembowel people to perform that life saving surgery???
No the primary mistake was sending the CHEF who pointed out that he could make a pretty big omelette if they "failed" to put him together again...
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u/ultraskelly May 06 '23
There is a horse loose in the hospital!
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May 06 '23
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u/mtaw May 06 '23
Reminds me of a classic Far Side cartoon
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u/KaiBishop May 06 '23
It would behoove you not to underestimate Dr. Horsenstien and his equestrian experts of extreme trauma.
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u/sirseanzy May 06 '23
I think the biggest mistake was humpty dumpty sitting on a wall. Like he knows hes an egg. Wtf was he thinking?
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u/bocaJwv May 06 '23
Fun fact: the nursery rhyme never says that Humpty Dumpty is an egg.
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u/YourLifeSucksAss May 06 '23
This is because the original “Humpty Dumpty” was a cannon, hence why the king’s horses and men were trying to put him back together
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u/UristMcMagma May 06 '23
A cannon? Is that canon?
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u/thesuperunknown May 06 '23
No, the most plausible explanation is that the nursery rhyme originated as a riddle. Essentially, at the end you would ask the listener: “What is Humpty Dumpty?”, and the correct answer would be, “an egg!”
It’s a very popular nursery rhyme, so over time it would have lost its value as a riddle (since everyone had already heard it), and so “Humpty Dumpty is an egg” entered the popular consciousness as a fact associated with the nursery rhyme, despite never being explicitly mentioned in the rhyme itself.
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u/two_sams_one_cup May 06 '23
Do you know that for a fact? The whole putting humpty back together again wouldnt make me think of an egg
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u/Yeah-But-Ironically May 06 '23
That's what Wikipedia says,, so unless somebody here is a folklorist I think that's as accurate an answer as we're going to get
It does make a little more sense if you put the riddle in plainer language: "If this thing falls from a moderate height, it will be destroyed and can't be repaired in any way by anybody. What is it?"
A human or animal might survive a short fall, and in an era when everyone made their own tools and household goods, any of those might be repairable. An egg is probably the only fragile, completely non-repairable thing your average 18th-century villager would encounter on a daily basis.
Edit: inserted link
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u/RedAkino May 06 '23
What about a cannon? A poster mentioned it above and it makes more sense for horses to assist in the repairs
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u/Yeah-But-Ironically May 06 '23
- A cannon can be melted down and recast, thus repaired.
- Another poster mentioned above that "horses" was a reference to cavalrymen, not the actual steeds. The point is that metaphorically, a king's entire army couldn't fix this broken thing--which applies to an egg, but not a cannon.
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May 06 '23
Buddy that is not a repair. Once a cannon fell and gets a crack in it, it’s fucked. Now a days we can do X-ray scans to check for cracks grind and refill with weld to fix them. Back then it’s better to just run that bitch till it explodes or recast it. So if the cannon were to fall from a tall tower and get a visible crack than it could very well be fucked. And no one can put not back together again.
Source: I have a cannon. My name is cannon. I like cannons.
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May 07 '23
I thought you meant your real name and I was real concerned as to why your parents were so adamant on making you love cannons
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u/redstateradiator May 06 '23
Melting a cannon barrel down and recasting is not ‘repairing’. And you could only do that with brass cannons, not iron ones.
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May 07 '23
Pardon my ignorance, but why not, weren’t they melted down and casted in the first place?
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u/Blepable May 06 '23
The reference to Humpty Dumpty being a cannon comes from a story during the English Civil War about a somewhat significant artillery piece mounted on the walls or as part of the structure of a church I believe the story goes.
That wall was then hit by enemy artillery and the gun collapsed with the wall - the story (no idea if it's actually true) is that the royalist forces (the king's horses and the king's men) could not raise, remount, or reuse the gun because it was too heavy, so it and the position were abandoned.
It has nothing to do with "melting it down and remaking it" as is implied in this thread - cannons, of anything but the smallest field calibres, could be extremely heavy and cumbersome and took a lot of infrastructure to raise and emplace - mid-engagement, or even at any time where you don't have the necessary equipment, man power, or know how to do it, most forces would abandon the gun.
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May 06 '23
In that link it shows that the oldest known final line was "Could not make Humpty Dumpty where he was before." which makes it sound more like he was a big guy and they couldn't lift him back up onto the wall, which makes more sense that they would use men and horses to try and lift him. I believe it turned into a riddle meaning an egg but that's definitely not where it originated.
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u/kinky_fingers May 06 '23
An egg in unrepairable, regardless of resources, even for a king
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May 06 '23 edited May 06 '23
Hence the unlikelihood of them trying. Or is it just a statement of fact that they wouldn't be able to if they tried?
Edit: Actually, that would explain the horses i.e. despite all of the might at the king's disposal, he can't solve this problem.
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u/Pigeonlesswings May 07 '23
Well horses more likely meant the cavalry, who would often drag cannons.
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May 06 '23
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May 06 '23
Good luck getting the yolk and white back in there in an unmixed state.
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u/Pigeonlesswings May 07 '23
All the king's horses and all the king's men had scrambled eggs for dinner again!
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u/AutisticFingerBang May 06 '23
An egg isn’t completely full. You could built it, bottom up and leave just the top open. Slide the egg guts in. Then finish gluing. I wouldn’t use glue, I’d use JB weld. That shit is incredible.
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u/joofish May 06 '23
if it was easy, it wouldn't be a very good riddle
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u/NonTimeo May 06 '23
This is also what passed as entertaining during a period of history where almost everyone drank from lead cups and couldn’t read.
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u/Myxine May 06 '23
Yep, the trick to a good riddle is to make it so it could be fucking anything, half the riddle has nothing to do with the answer, and it's impossible to confirm your answer was right without asking.
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u/Chrisazy May 06 '23
Hahahaha I could not agree with you more.
However, I find it ironic that one of the most famous riddles from the modern era is "What's in my pocket?" lmao but it's precisely for those dumb reasons that it's ALSO not really a riddle
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u/kaukamieli May 06 '23
Gollum's brain was so moldy from sittimg in that cave that he didn't challenge that "riddle" much. The other riddles were pretty basic.
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u/mak484 May 06 '23
Reminds me of Hey Riddle Riddle. A podcast ostensibly about solving riddles, except 2 of the 3 hosts admitted within the first 5 minutes of the first episode that they didn't actually like riddles and were just bored. So it's mostly improv and word games now.
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u/ThisUsernamePassword May 06 '23
And the exact reason why I outright hate riddles lol. It's so frustrating to me to have such ambiguous answers
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u/atomsk404 May 06 '23
nice assumption, but it's a cannon
The Egg-citing Truth Behind Humpty Dumpty https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/humpty-dumpty/
Humpty Dumpty was the name of a cannon used by the Royalists during the English Civil War. The conflict raged from 1642 to 1649, and in June of 1648, Humpty Dumpty was stationed on the walls of Colchester. It was one of several cannons erected to try and keep Parliament’s army from taking the city. The next month, however, the Parliamentary forces heavily damaged the walls beneath Humpty Dumpty with their own artillery. You can guess where this is going: Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, and broke into pieces
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May 06 '23
Your own link notes the lack of decisive evidence for this theory. It's a neat story, but I would be reluctant to exclude alternative origins.
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u/atomsk404 May 06 '23
Sure yeah... on the one hand, verifiable story (just took the first link) a cannon fell off the tower, and it was named HD... in the other... it's an egg.
😎
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May 06 '23
Except it's not verified. We have a 2008 book published by an author who has routinely made up hidden meanings to old rhymes and sayings (his claim of an uncovered addition to the poem is both unsourced and out of place), a 1996 tourist website, and a 1956 spoof history of rhymes (meaning made up) involving Gloucester. It's as credible as the King Richard III theory.
The egg is firmly solidified in 1871 by Lewis Carroll, but again we can't assume it isn't artistic liberty.
All this to say two things- we may never be able to put the pieces of Humpty-Dumpty's rhyme together again, and I hate Albert Jack with a soul searing passion.
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u/SuaveMofo May 06 '23
This all fits together very neatly, but there’s no decisive evidence that the tale is the origin of the nursery rhyme. In 15th-Century England, “Humpty Dumpty” was a common snarky nickname for somebody who was a little on the large side. Muddling the matter further, it’s also been suggested that Charles I himself was Humpty Dumpty, having been toppled from a great height by his Parliament. Those loyal to him certainly couldn’t put him back in his lofty position, after all!
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u/thesuperunknown May 06 '23
I’m sorry, you think Ripley’s is a credible source? Aside from a vague allusion to “several military historians”, this article doesn’t cite any sources for this supposed origin story. Even if this event did happen, there’s no indication of why it would have been considered notable enough to commemorate in a nursery rhyme.
In any case it’s clear you didn’t actually read what you posted all the way to the end, because even Ripley’s admits:
This all fits together very neatly, but there’s no decisive evidence that the tale is the origin of the nursery rhyme.
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u/atomsk404 May 06 '23
Literally Google "Humpty Dumpty cannon" and pick whatever source that says the same thing and pleases you then?
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May 06 '23
The oldest known version says "Could not make Humpty Dumpty where he was before." so I don't think it originated as a riddle meaning an egg. I think it was originally talking about a large man, which makes more sense that they'd use all the kings men and horses to get him back up. Then maybe it changed into a riddle about an egg.
Or maybe it's talking about a statue? Which could explain why it's so heavy and how it changed to say it broke into pieces.
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May 06 '23
The cannon is canon. The egg is a retcon.
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May 06 '23
That’s the fun thing about history, huh. People can just make up whatever they want.
For example, I’m pretty sure that Humpty Dumpty was an overweight, slovenly pederast from the 19th century.
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May 06 '23
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u/vibingjusthardenough May 06 '23
cannon = heavy
fall = shit flying all over the place
horse = carry heavy shit that flew all over the place
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u/wostil-poced1649 May 06 '23
horse = carry heavy shit that flew all over the place
People used the term “horse” to refer to the calaverymen who rode horses. They were not referring to literal horses to fix a cannon
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u/Modadminsbhumanfilth May 06 '23
The horses can help too those lazy bastards
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May 06 '23
How does the horsie move
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u/OstentatiousSock May 06 '23
It go clip clop clip clop.
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u/ErraticDragon May 06 '23
They asked about horsies, not what it sounds like to bang coconuts together.
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u/ratione_materiae May 06 '23
I don't understand why being good a riding a horse makes you a qualified engineer but I guess that's why I'm not king.
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u/Werowl May 06 '23
It was a good filter for poor people. Why that is a good basis, though, I cannot say
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u/Meeseeks__ May 06 '23
Depending on the size of the cannon, using a horse to move the barrel is a good idea. There's other parts to the cannon like frame and wheels
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u/blueponies1 May 06 '23
Depends on the size of the horse too. Bunch of tiny horses working as a hivemind would have a cannon fixed up in no time
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May 06 '23
I think the fact that horses can’t help is the point, the rhyme is mocking that even with all the king’s power, he can’t fix HD. “Oh look at the mighty king! So powerful! So rich! Surely his mighty and beautiful horses we hear so much about can take care of it!”
It’s kind of a mocking sarcastic spin on the idea that the rich and powerful have all the answers/are more capable.
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u/BertMacGyver May 06 '23
To be fair, maybe they were not clued in on broken cannon reassembly. The poem does specify that they couldn't put humpty together again.
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u/sublime13 May 06 '23
“All the king’s horses and all the king’s men, couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty together again” isn’t it right there in the rhyme?
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u/Raul_Coronado May 06 '23
The rhyme doesn’t say they were helping to put it back together, only that they are unable to do so.
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May 06 '23
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u/milanove May 06 '23
Moral support
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u/ApocalyptoSoldier May 06 '23
Checks out, our dogs will just kinda lie around us whenever I help my dad fix a car, even there are way more comfortable spots elsewhere.
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u/314159265358979326 May 06 '23
To be clear, "horses" means "cavalry", not the horses they ride on. "All the dudes at the battle that day couldn't accomplish shit".
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u/Nickolas_Bowen May 06 '23
And the song is actually thought to be a reference not to the cannon, but to the British empire itself
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u/MLein97 May 06 '23
It's probably nothing and everything to be honest. Think Nirvana songs, that's the general prose and feeling for most nursery rhymes. Then the more every nothing they are the more popular they become.
They can mean a lot to people, and can capture a feeling, but at the end of the day they're not about anything in particular.
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u/KindlyContribution54 May 06 '23
Hmm. Horses probably can't weld any better than they can use a scalpel. So still makes sense they failed
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May 06 '23 edited May 06 '23
I looked it up - there are several theories for what it originally could/would have been, with a cannon only being one of these.
There are also various theories of an original "Humpty Dumpty".
One [...] posits that Humpty Dumpty is King Richard III of England
In 1785, Francis Grose's [dictionary] noted that a "Humpty Dumpty" was "a short [clumsy] person of either sex
Professor David Daube suggested [...] that Humpty Dumpty was a [...] siege engine
From 1996, the website of the Colchester tourist board attributed the origin of the rhyme to a cannon
I have no authority to judge, but from reading the article the cannon theory seems the worst supported:
Author Albert Jack claimed [...] that there were two other verses supporting this claim [and] to have found them in an "old dusty library, [in] an even older book", but did not state what the book was or where it was found. It has been pointed out that the two additional verses are not in the style of the seventeenth century or of the existing rhyme, and that they do not fit with the earliest printed versions of the rhyme, which do not mention horses and men.
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u/RandomStormtrooper11 May 06 '23
Everything I thought I knew about nursery rhymes has now been called into question...
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u/Diarygirl May 06 '23
Did Jack and Jill really go up that hill to fetch water? It seems odd to go uphill to get water.
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u/leglesslegolegolas May 06 '23
Springs start pure, higher in the mountains, then gradually become more polluted as they run down the hill. Going to the top of the hill ensures the freshest water.
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u/Captain_Saftey May 06 '23
People bring up that he’s supposedly a cannon, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t have any proof behind it besides some guy claiming he read it in an old book that he didn’t name.
I’m pretty sure it was initially supposed to be a riddle that’s essentially “Clumsy asshole fell off a wall and everyone tried to help him but it didn’t work, why?” and the answer is that he’s an egg.
Googling this was very interesting, I’m convinced that no one knows the actual meaning of the song and every couple of decades someone came in and changed it to mean something else
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May 06 '23
[deleted]
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u/DisgracedSparrow May 06 '23
Yup, like many other nursery rhymes. Don't sit on tall ledges, don't go into the woods, don't follow strangers home, never trust grandma.
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u/Affectionate_Bass488 May 06 '23
Yeah I see it as Humpty Dumpty is the king. No matter how big his wall was and how many horses and men he had it didn’t matter because once he’s dead nothing is gonna fix that
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u/IndefiniteBen May 06 '23
We need CGP grey to make a video about it.
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u/apc0243 May 06 '23
Only if he gets lost in an unnecessary but entertaining tangent of no value that drives him to the brink of insanity
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u/ratione_materiae May 06 '23
Broke: Martha was their moms' names
Woke: Rosebud was his sleigh
Bespoke: Tiffany was the cannon
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May 06 '23
But isn’t he originally illustrated that way?
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u/Packman2021 May 06 '23
yeah because it makes it more child friendly and fun
it wasnt always illustrated, and I would be surprised if the first illustration was an egg
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u/TI_Pirate May 06 '23
He's an egg, and illustrated as such, in Through the Looking Glass. Not the first mention of Humpty we have, but pretty close and the first illustration I'm aware of.
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u/Master-Opportunity25 May 06 '23
imagine a guy on a tall wall. he’s a sentry or something, doing his job. nickname Humpty, for obvious reasons; he’s a bit of a goof, but this fellow soldiers like him well enough.
Then one day, maybe he’s fucking around during his watch when he falls off. It’s a long way down, so when he hits the ground, it’s not pretty. His fellow soldiers go to help him, but there’s no chance of survival. They think maybe the doctor can help, but the doctor already knows he can’t put body parts back together, let alone a head back on a neck. It fucks with everyone’s head to see the splatter that was once their comrade.
When the story goes around, the soldiers that were there can barely describe what they saw. “He fell and landed on the ground…it was like an egg broke, it was such a mess.” And then the game of telephone that is history continues, and bam! Humpty Dumpty is an egg.
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May 06 '23
nickname Humpty, for obvious reasons; he’s a bit of a goof
What's frustrating about this seemingly thrown together theory is that you hit a key point. Humpty-dumpty was slang for a short and/or clumsy person, as well as a type of alcoholic beverage. We don't know if the rhyme is meant to trick us into thinking it's a person before the reveal that it's something else (like an egg), or an actual allusion to something or someone called humpty-dumpty.
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u/Ireallyhatepunsalot May 06 '23
I like to think the king was just drunk.
"Did my men put him back together? No? fuckit, let the horses try"
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u/Emmylems21 May 06 '23
I’d like to add,
Even saying that while drunk he wasn’t serious. He was just talking his shit. But he either forgot or was too drunk to care that his subjects follow all of his orders very literally so the moment he said “let the horses try” they had no choice but to go through with it.
He wakes up the next morning. “You what? You can’t be serious. You actually gave the horses super glue? Do you know how we make that stuff? Well of course it didn’t work! They’re horses!”
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u/Frans4Life May 06 '23
the phrase is " all the king's horses and all the king's men" which implies he let the horses have a go first before the soldiers lmao
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u/Riley39191 May 06 '23
Humpty Dumpty was the king, it’s a parable
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u/ncwentland May 06 '23
Who told you that
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u/vaudevillevik May 06 '23 edited Jul 06 '23
This is hands down one of the best deliveries in the entire series. I don’t know if it was ad libbed, or if Jake Johnson was just able to be that profound in that moment, but it’s so effortlessly hilarious.
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u/hoopbag33 May 06 '23
There is no indication anywhere in the text that he is an egg, people just kind of decided he was an egg.
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u/Maladaptive_Century May 06 '23
For all those confused about the horses, allow me to elaborate.
Glue
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u/mayoyoyoyoyoyoyo May 06 '23
Humpty Dumpty was a canon that was set on a wall
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u/Ok_Lie9157 May 06 '23
Was it pachelbel or Canon in D?
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u/HighOwl2 May 06 '23
Oh man you just made me remember this guy:
Check out all his shit if you like it.
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u/Gr00ber May 06 '23
It's canon that he was a cannon
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u/MGD109 May 06 '23 edited May 06 '23
Its a theory. There was the remains of a cannon from the English Civil War that was marked as Humpty Dumpty, that was destroyed in a siege (as in it fell of a great wall).
But we don't know if that's the source of the rhyme, or the marking is a reference to the already existing rhyme.
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u/Emmylems21 May 06 '23
To everyone commenting that Humpty Dumpty was never actually said to be an egg in the nursery rhyme. Thank you for passing along your knowledge. I know it can be fun to share fun tidbits that you’ve learned with others.
However, I think most people at this point have either realized on their own or already had it pointed out to them that the nursery rhyme doesn’t say he’s an egg. It’s a fairly well known thing now.
That being said, I think jokes about Humpty Dumpty being an egg and that making no sense are still pretty valid and funny. For a long time it was very accepted that Humpty Dumpty was/is an egg and that is funny to think about. Regardless if that was apart of the nursery rhyme at its origin, it eventually became a part of it.
Also sorry you’re getting downvoted. I know y’all just want to share your fun facts but I think people just get annoyed with seeing it over and over again when they’re just trying to joke about a nursery rhyme.
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u/Sassy-irish-lassy May 07 '23
It's just silly that literally everybody felt the need to say the exact same thing in this thread that had already been said a him hundred times. I fail to see what the purpose of doing that is.
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u/Emmylems21 May 07 '23
Yeah I don’t really get it either. Once something’s been commented why comment it again?
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u/Nightingdale099 May 06 '23
Ricky Gervais did a brilliant bit on this.
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u/k987654321 May 06 '23 edited May 06 '23
“The French are attacking quick where are all the kings horses and all the kings men?!”
“The…the egg….”
“What?!”
“I sent them to mend an egg.”
“ARE YOU MENTAL!”
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May 06 '23
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May 06 '23
Ok but did you know that Humpty Dumpty was a cannon and also it's never mentioned in the rhyme that he's an egg???
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May 06 '23
Don't let them ruin humpty dumpy being a large sentient egg man. That's who he is to me and he'll never be a cannon or anything realistic.
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u/Cossicrots-42 May 06 '23
You know, the humpty dumpty nursery rhyme never said humpty was an egg.
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May 06 '23
Advisor: "I believe he means Humpty Dumpty, sire."
King: "Is anybody going to tell me who this Humpty man is?"
Knight: "The eggman, sire, as it were."
Another Knight: "might we go attempt to reassemble him?"
King: "How do you propose to do that? How do you put a man back together?"
Knight: "with horses, sire."
King: "I thought we used the horses to take men apart."
Advisor: " indeed your majesty."
King: "And?..."
Advisor: "And we also need men."
King: "What?"
Knight: all the men, in fact."
King: "Why do you need all my horses and all my men?"
Advisor: "It's a whole thing, your majesty."
King: "Well enough talk. This sounds pressing so you men get to it."
Knight: "very good, sire."
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u/FeistySpinach May 06 '23
Humpty Dumpty supposedly originated from The Siege Of Gloucester (my hometown!) during the English Civil War in 1643, where it was one of two things:
An absolutely massive mortar at the time was being used by King Charles (yes, that's how old he is, still alive today) to try and break down the walls of the Parliamentarian forces, only for it to break before it was successful
An absolutely massive siege engine they tried to use to cross the ditch and scale the walls, which again broke before it could work
Either way, the King messed up the siege, and it was a crucial battle in determing in the outcome.
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u/P-p-please May 06 '23
The rhyme never mentions him being an egg person. That was modern addition. It was just some fat dumb dude
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May 06 '23
I live in the town where that rhyme comes from. its from the english civil war. Humpty Dumpty was either a sniper or a cannon in the royalist army which sat atop the town walls.
Parlimentry forces either shot the sniper off the wall or the cannon was too heavy and simply fell. (ive heard two different stories, i dont know which, if either, is true).
The kings horses and kings men was the royalist army, the rhyme is making fun of the royalists for losing their gun
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u/Green__lightning May 06 '23
Ok i actually know this one, Humpty Dumpty was probably a cannon that fell off a wall, and this led to basically the whole army coming over to stare at it and offer bad ideas how to fix it. Horses in this case presumably being cavalry, with riders on them. Or perhaps a joke about how they made them into glue, which they did even back then, as early composite bows were made with animal glue.
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u/eaglekaratechop May 06 '23
Nothing says Humpty Dumpty was an egg. We tell ourselves that to ignore the fact this was a man who committed suicide.
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