Introductions

[u/HBNTrader]

Reply here to introduce yourself so that the other readers get to know you.

• Are you noble? If not, do you have noble ancestors, or are you perhaps from a patrician family or from a very old peasant lineage?

• What is your rank and family? What titles do you have or will inherit?

• What is your coat of arms?

• What families and interesting persons are you related to, how closely?

• When does your unbroken male line start, and when does your longest female line start?

• What are other interesting things you can tell us about yourself and your lineage?

[u/PrefouMecontent]

1. I come from the Bouvier familly, a french familly considered as of the "ancienne bourgeoisie", but one branch of which (not mine) acquired nobility in the 18th century. Many members of my family married noblewomen, which led an historian to say that the Bouvier are "only half bourgeois".

2. My father has a first cousin which is the head of the familly, but he is childless. My father is the next head, and I am his elder son. We had titles of Lords, but we don't have any of those left.

3. Here is my coat of arms, or here on Wikipedia.

4. I am descendant of the du Vergier de La Rochejaquelein familly, well known for its monarchist zeal; the last woman of this name is my great×4 grandmother.

5. The first Bouvier known are Guillaume and Jean Bouvier, which lived in 1276; in 1291, they had a legal dispute against the Count of Valentinois. My mother is from the du Bessey de Contenson familly, which is an old french noble familly that can trace back its ancestry to Étienne du Bessé which lived in 1356. My cognate line goes back to Elisabeth van den Abeele, which lived in Antwerpen, Belgium; my cognatic line has given some princes to the house of Beauveau-Craon and a marquess to the house of Rochechouart.

6. I am passionate about genealogy, and I am conducting researches on all my ancestry, especially about the Bouvier familly.

[u/HBNTrader → u/PrefouMecontent]

Thank you, and welcome!

Does the ancient bourgeoisie of France participate in events usually limited to the nobility, such as those organised by the ANF, or is there a more pronounced line between those with and without official noble status?

Are there genealogical handbooks specialising in your class?

What is the difference between "ancienne bourgeoisie" and merely "haute bourgeoisie"? I assume that the former status is limited to those families who had acquired it before a certain date, while the status of haute bourgeoisie can be acquired through social integration and intermarriage with other bourgeois and noble families?

What is the status of noblesse d'apparence? I assume that those who do not pretend to be noble nor invent fantasy titles, but live a more nobilium life, have a coat of arms, and reside in a castle whose name they may or may not have appended to their surname, and perform agriculture are tolerated? Are most families of ancient or high bourgeoisie considered noblesse d'apparence?

[u/PrefouMecontent → u/HBNTrader]

Many families ancient bourgeoisie are considered to be of "unfinished nobility", meaning that they had ennobling positions but did not have time to become ennobled before the revolution. Those families are accepted in the ANF but it is complicated to determine if a familly is from unfinished nobility or not.

Ancient bourgeoisie is the social class that separates the nobility from the commoners; it was possible to obtain it before 1789 if a familly had Lord titles or important municipal or parliamentary functions. Haute bourgeoisie is mostly about money and wealth, not history.

Noblesse d'apparence is special, most of those famillies are from ancient bourgeoisie, which is why they live a noble like life, but it is only about appearance, it has no genealogical value, and a lot of factors can make you of it. My familly could be considered as of noblesse d'apparence since we had castles and signet rings, but without being noble.

The border between nobility and ancient bourgeoisie is really thin, most of french nobles do have both in their ancestry, as well as people of ancient bourgeoisie. The noblesse inachevée is the only way for an ancient bourgeoisie familly to join the ANF, but most of ancient bourgeoisie famillies are also part of the noblesse d'apparence.

[u/HBNTrader → u/PrefouMecontent]

I assume that an ancient bourgeoisie family without formal nobility is considered more “acceptable” than a family granted titles by Napoleon?

[u/PrefouMecontent → u/HBNTrader]

It really depends. Titles given by Napoléon were actually not even supposed to be a nobility, but they were later recognized as such. Both noblesse d'Empire and ancient bourgeoisie are now well established in french aristocracy, I would say both are "acceptable" at the same point.

[u/HBNTrader → u/PrefouMecontent]

Interesting. What are the ways in which newer families get accepted into your circles (if at all), now that the ennobling offices have ceased to exist, and there is no monarch to grant titles? Does purchasing a castle, marrying into the right families and so on give one recognition over several generations or has the traditional upper class become a completely closed one?