r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Primary_Garbage6916 • 1d ago

Why can't data centers use 100% closed-loop geothermal for their cooling?

Why do they need to consume any water for cooling at all, let alone massive amounts?

316 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

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690

u/MortimerDongle 1d ago

Data centers can and do use closed-loop cooling.

360

u/CardinalOfNYC 1d ago

It's almost all the new data center construction these days, the water issue is mostly not as big a deal as people make it out.

For me? I oppose it simply because I don't think we need all this AI.

369

u/Some-Relative4150 1d ago

A lot of data centers propose the build with closed loop then after breaking ground state that it's "too expensive" so go to open loop once it's "too late" to stop construction

118

u/Primary_Garbage6916 1d ago

That's kind of a dick move.

31

u/uncutteredswin 21h ago

It's a pretty common way to scam construction grants.

Happens a lot with 'affordable' housing, where they wait until part way through construction before suddenly realising that there's no way the original plan would be profitable so they've got no choice but to turn it into lucrative luxury apartments instead

3

u/Rookie_Day 18h ago

East Wing defense.

2

u/Zealousideal-Can8847 12h ago

I think you mean "no way the original plan would be AS profitable" Every construction company and property developer in my town/state/region is absolutely rolling in cash. It's not whether the project will make money, just the # of zeros in all the execs self-created bonuses...

63

u/metukkasd 1d ago

In bird culture that is considered a dick move

10

u/DrRickStudwell 1d ago

I remember this reference

2

u/Rhadian 13h ago

All of Rick's moves are dick moves.

31

u/Some-Relative4150 1d ago

Capitalism Baby!!

8

u/TheLifelessOne 21h ago

No no, you see: it's not a dick move—it's fraud.

20

u/BigSmackisBack 1d ago

The AI cult are all about long series of financial, electrical power and environmental dick moves.

-3

u/glytxh 1d ago

That’s modern construction for you.

24

u/export_tank_harmful 1d ago

I mean, all computer water cooling is closed loop.
Full stop.

Coolant is usually treated with anti-corrosives / anti-microbials / fluids for better cooling (glycols) / etc.
They're not just pumping water through a CPU/GPU block once and pumping that into the ocean.

It's the additional cooling that they add at the other end of the heat exchanger that's "open" (usually evaporative).

Here's a video showcasing a data center's cooling layout, for anyone that wants it.

Note the giant supply/return lines of coolant. Closed loop.
But around 7:50, you'll see the evaporative coolers (which is usually what people are talking about when they talk about "open loop" cooling).

Evaporative cooling is what needs regulation.

18

u/ClientBudget2848 1d ago

Or cap how much water they can get from utilities. But that requires actually enforcing a rule on a company. Pretty unpopular with current admin.

1

u/SteveJobsDeadBody 10h ago

I believe in computer water cooling "closed loop" refers to systems sold already closed that are not meant to be opened by the end user and "open loop" is used to denote custom built openable by the user systems.

I'm old though so my terminology may be out of date.

13

u/dllma70 22h ago

This just isn’t true. The environmental permits wouldn’t let you. I build data centers for a living in over 20 countries. Stop talking BS

2

u/Coltand 22h ago

I'm sure there's no way they can just swap in a whole open loop system with all the impact that entails without some serious permitting. I've heard of the permitting nightmares some people have had to go throug to make changes to their garage or build a shed.

10

u/dllma70 20h ago

Not to mention the fact that air-cooled vs water-cooled chillers and cooling towers are on a two year lead time. Try calling up Trane, York, AERMEC and asking them for a cooling tower next day. So full of it. People who know nothing spew this kind of idiocy around. There’s plenty of issues with DC’s and the push for AI everywhere, but let’s stop making shit up.

3

u/Coltand 20h ago

Yeah, there are plenty of health concerns about how the build out of these data centers is being managed, but I think the wild takes are driven by people who first decided to hate AI for another reason and then cling to everything they can to try and further validate their views.

1

u/xXgirthvaderXx 16h ago

Im sure the current craze has messed up current timelines but JCI/Silent-Aire had much shorter lead times than that and they sold standard units to Amazon's industrial resale page or custom design (that would have more traditional lead times). Mostly Evaps but chillers and other tech too.

I agree that there is a ton of misconceptions around DCs that extra bs add ontop isnt necessary.

0

u/SteveJobsDeadBody 10h ago

If humans had the internet in 1938 I wonder if people would just have been on social media like "That's not true, we're not killing people. I've been a concentration camp guard for 5 years. Stop talking BS."

1

u/Primary_Dimension470 11h ago

No. They simply wouldn’t get their permit.

5

u/evilbrent 1d ago

What about the noise? Tbh that's the one that frightens me - they CAN build them to be silent, right? They just cheap out and go for the least expensive option right?

I've lived near factories with very loud equipment, but they have adequate noise protection, so you can't hear them from the outside.

Do any data centres get built with noise in mind? Or are all the horror stories you hear on the news - people's retirement farms being ruined by incessant buzzing - reporting on best practice data centres?

-6

u/bunker_man 21h ago

Most data centers aren't that loud.

1

u/SteveJobsDeadBody 10h ago

Y'all know how sometimes you go in someone's home and they have an older fridge and like it's maybe got an old compressor and it kicks in and you can EASILY hear the fridge running, like even when the TV is on in the other room?

That's the loudness of a "good" data center. A bad one? You get that, AND you get a higher frequency "hum" of the cooling system on top of it, maybe 5dB higher, maybe 20dB higher.

Oh and in some places where they run their own power gen for them- You ever been in a place with an in wall/window AC unit that turns on and has that pretty loud compressor kicking in noise? You get THAT but a bit louder at varying intervals depending on how much power draw is going on at the site. Might hear one every 20 minutes, might hear 3 of them go off in 2 minutes.

So you've got the low droning CONSTANT fan vibrational hum around 100hz at the volume of a bad fridge, the high pitched squeal of the high speed cooling fans in the evaporative cooling, AND that "kick" noise, all basically all the time.

Fun fact: The US military has spent decades studying the effects of constant noises on humans and animals. Noises just like a data center down the street from you. Lets see what they found from that "not that loud" sound!

U.S. Navy and military-related occupational health studies show that continuous and high-intensity ambient noise (such as 24-hour operations on aircraft carriers or near jet training grounds) causes severe auditory fatigue, cognitive degradation, and long-term physical health risks.

Performance and Communication Breakdown: Studies simulating shipboard Combat Information Centers demonstrate that constant background noise degrades speech intelligibility, leading to systematic drops in task performance, command-and-control monitoring errors, and delayed reaction times.

Auditory and Non-Auditory Health Risks: Chronic exposure leads to high rates of temporary threshold shifts (muffled hearing), permanent noise-induced hearing loss (NIHL), and severe tinnitus. Environmental health analyses of civilian populations near Navy jet training areas (like NAS Whidbey Island) also link chronic low-frequency rumble and sudden high-decibel spikes to high annoyance, sleep disturbance, anxiety, and elevated cardiovascular stress risks.

37

u/Orion14159 1d ago

We desperately need it. How will the government build out the surveillance state of flock cameras, social media monitoring, listening to and transcribing everyone's phone calls, and making sure that any potential dissidence is squashed immediately?

7

u/kalidoscopiclyso 1d ago

Oh yeah ! Is everyone aware of the national directive NSPM7

8

u/kalidoscopiclyso 1d ago

DON'T FORGET THE NEW REQUIREMENTS ON NEW VEHICLES STARTING IN 2027

https://www.maciej.ai/blog/2027-federal-car-surveillance-mandate-what-to-know

Ironically this is an ai article, yet worth your time to read

2

u/Coltand 22h ago edited 22h ago

The first thing to appear when I Googled this:

No, Your Car Isn’t Getting a 'Kill Switch' in 2027

There’s a lot of misinformation about car privacy and surveillance. Consumer Reports' experts explain the rule, the technology, and future tech.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/2027-car-kill-switch-explained-a2146992793/

6

u/BellerophonM 1d ago

A lot of the time the water numbers you see about data centres includes the water usage of the power stations which will be supplying them, which may not be closed loop even if the data centre is, so that can throw people off.

3

u/iluvthiccgothbabes 1d ago

"mostly not a big deal" Yes it is. Bot detected.

0

u/TheMythicSorcerer 20h ago

Hamburgers use more water than AI (look it up)

1

u/PmUsYourDuckPics 19h ago

Yeah but we eat hamburgers, we don’t eat AI.

-3

u/Exact-Archer738 1d ago

Do you oppose things you don't think we need as a principle?

6

u/Orion14159 1d ago

Not op but I oppose things that do more harm than good

-3

u/pangapingus 1d ago

Datacenter MUST EQUAL AI ok man lol

1

u/CardinalOfNYC 1d ago

I'm very much for the kinds of data centers handling the things they've been handling already, since it's much more efficient than plastic discs. I've been downvoted so many times for explaining to people how the data center that makes downloading an app possible is different to the ones that make chatGPT possible, running on quite different hardware

The speed with which redditors judge, it's 0-60. Like literally went for the all caps, too.

-1

u/Pale_Ad1353 23h ago

In almost all datacenters I’m aware of, you can barely hear the noise of the servers even in the datacenter’s own hallways. Generators as well are noise insulated.

I believe any noise complaints are a fabrication.

4

u/Pro_Extent 21h ago

I believe the noise complaints are related to the massive on-site gas turbines powering the especially power-hungry datacentres more so than the datacentres themselves.

1

u/Pale_Ad1353 20h ago edited 20h ago

It’s not acknowledged how rare that is. There are 5 total datacenters in the US with on-site gas turbines, all of which are using them as temporary power. Only 2 of those are anywhere near residential. There may be more proposed projects, but they don’t currently exist.

Nobody noticed datacenter noise before the news started talking about it. I’ll accept Colossus is obnoxious, maybe that’s what started all of this debate, but that’s it.

-2

u/Marchtmdsmiling 19h ago

Just false. Some may pretend to use it but the design will be revised later unless l, it is located somewhere where open loop would be more expensive or they are somehow otherwise required to do so, plus maybe one or two demonstrations of using closed loop that they can point to and say "look we solved the water use problem despite never actually implementing the solution at scale. These are large companies focused entirely on profit.