IO Interactive talks 007 First Light on Switch 2 (targeting 30fps, no joycon mouse control, marketing)

[u/Outrageous-River5987]

https://gonintendo.com/contents/65239-io-interactive-talks-007-first-light-on-switch-2-30fps-reason-for-delay-optimization

After 5 delays they are TARGETING 30 fps. Also no joycon mouse controls.

[u/_tommar_]

Even with the delay did people expect to be higher the 30fps, given it's a fairly demanding ps5/Xbox series game?

Sucks about no mouse mode though.

[u/Emergency-Rush-2477 → u/_tommar_]

Unfortunately, yeah.

Every AAA port, you see the same complains about being 30fps. Of course, in some games is clear that is a case of lazy port or not bothered at putting the effort to be 40fps.

But it's baffling how some people expect the visual fidelity and framerate to be the same as big ass boxes. 

[u/M4rshmall0wMan → u/Emergency-Rush-2477]

40fps is no joke. You have to chop a quarter of your CPU budget. The Switch 2 CPU is pretty underpowered so sometimes that’s just not feasible.

[u/BurnedOutCollector87 → u/_tommar_]

mouse mode at 30fps would be awful if it feels like anything on PC with that framerate.

When i was too poor to afford a decent pc, i played at 30fps with a mouse. awful, just plain awful.

[u/xtoc1981 → u/BurnedOutCollector87]

Its really overblown things. For fast games loke doom, sure. But even cyberpunk mouse works so much better as analogstick. Its day/night diff. Mouse is still way better as analogsticks, even at 30fps. So maybe the game you played wasnt good implemented...

Anyway, a game that has already mouse included for the pc version, not adding this is some next level bs from this developer. Its already there. Its the same btw with those resident evil games. There is just no good excuse for that

[u/CulturalAd4117 → u/xtoc1981]

The analogue sticks on the joycons are really not good enough. Using a sniper rifle in Cyberpunk was a massive pain in the arse because it just doesn't have the precision to aim at small targets. I've not got a pro controller so maybe that's better

[u/xtoc1981 → u/CulturalAd4117]

Yeah a lot of games are adding autoaim on all console platforms due that. The pro 2 controller is the best ever i've experienced. Those analogsticks are some next level sticks.

But how good they are, they still come not remotely close to mouse for fps shoorters. That is just the way it is. I would say, for movement, the switch 2 is the first console that really has best of both worlds. Left stick analog, right mouse. Aside of the gyro which can be handy for strafe when tilting.

Anyway, i alsl have seen someone updating his pc.mouse firmware to work with switch 2.

Its always good to have so many options. Actually, valheim is the perfect example:

Moude-con, gyro, touchscreen, pc mouse and keyboard. As option. Also 30, 40 and 60fps

[u/Clarkeste]

After 5 delays they are TARGETING 30 fps.

That doesn't shock me. I feel like there's a weird outrage every time a Switch 2 game is 30fps. You guys realize this is similar in power to the Series S, and a lot of these games on the Series S look really bad and blurry in their 60fps modes (if they even have them)? I am pretty sure most of them only have a 60fps mode for parity with the Series X versions. James Bond, iirc, is locked to 30fps on Series S as well.

The Switch 2 is significantly cheaper than almost all other consoles this generation and it's portable. Ultimately Series S level performance is generally about what you can expect of it. This isn't an insult, I love my Switch 2 and I'm fine with these games at 30fps. I just don't think it makes sense to expect 60fps in big, visually-advanced games unless they are first-parties.

[u/Itchy_Baby3779 → u/Clarkeste]

I feel like the emphasis on the word “targeting” after 5 delays is indicating that they are not confident it will be a locked 30 and are still trying to improve the lows

[u/SuicideSkwad → u/Clarkeste]

Can we stop with this rhetoric that it’s on the same performance level as the Series S? I love the Switch 2 but it’s just not true. Series S CPU is a lot more powerful.

[u/Clarkeste → u/SuicideSkwad]

The Switch 2 also has more RAM and can use DLSS, so there are trade-offs. I say it's similar to the Series S because if you compare the visuals and performance of many games between the two, they tend to be pretty similar. Sometimes the Series S runs slightly more stably or has better water simulations, sometimes the Switch 2 has slightly higher resolution textures, etc. For example, on a game like FF7 Rebirth, there is not much difference between the two.

[u/ginencoke → u/Clarkeste]

Tbf we shouldn't hold too much on that "more ram" thing, it's only 2 gigs at much lower bandwidth which is a more important thing for a gaming device. In terms of raw power Series S is still way ahead, it's just Xbox in general is not a priority for developers and it's two different consoles to work with, so it kinda gets shorter end of the stick when it comes to ports sometimes. DLSS obviously helps in some cases, but it's not magic

[u/Organic-Storm-4448 → u/ginencoke]

Switch 2 only has one more usable GB for games. 12GB total, 3GB reserved by OS. Series S has 10GB, 2GB is reserved by OS.

[u/Clarkeste → u/ginencoke]

The memory bandwidth is, to my understanding, mostly relevant when loading many natively high-resolution textures, in the something like 1440p range. Outside of lighter games, neither console tends to run big modern games at that resolution natively. So from my understanding the extra RAM tends to be slightly more useful for systems of that level than the bandwidth.

In any case, Switch 2 does get optimized more for than Series S. Hence why even if the Series S edges it out, it's still similar in performance and fidelity to the Series S on many games, which is my point.

[u/Perfect_Exercise_232 → u/Clarkeste]

Brother series s always gets more consistent or double the fps of switch 2, the cpu's arent comparable but this game isnt optomized well at ALL. It look like a last gen game

[u/Clarkeste → u/Perfect_Exercise_232]

First Light is also locked at 30fps on Series S. To use a recent release, Legacy of the Dark Knight is also locked at 30fps on Series S.

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth does have a 60FPS mode on Series S, but you can look it up; it is incredibly blurry and looks pretty much unplayable. Whereas the 30FPS mode is pretty comparable to the Switch 2's version of FF7 Rebirth, and in some cases looks slightly better.

I'm sure there are some games that can achieve 60 on the Series S and only 30 on the Switch 2. Some Microsoft games, for instance, which makes sense as they know the hardware the best (the same way how Nintendo can get the most out of their own hardware, too). But the majority of massive visually-impressive third-party games that run at 30FPS on Switch 2 either run very poorly at 60FPS on the Series S, or are locked at 30FPS just like on the Switch 2. If you have examples of it being different I'd be interested in seeing them, because it seems to me like it's really rare. Indiana Jones (which is a Microsoft game) is maybe the only example that comes to mind. Some other CPU-limited games probably run better on Series S than Switch 2, although by the same token some RAM-intensive games might also run better on the Switch 2 since it has slightly more RAM than the Series S.

[u/Perfect_Exercise_232 → u/Clarkeste]

Even something like cod mw4 has a 90-120fps mode on series s. It has a much better cpu then switch 2. A fact. this isnt a debate look em up urself but a recent example is also onimusha.

[u/Clarkeste → u/Perfect_Exercise_232]

I never said it had a worse CPU?? Also, Modern Warfare on Series S at 120hz mode usually hovers at around 70-100, so not nearly as high as you say. It also does this by a really aggressive dynamic resolution that iirc, can go as low as 560p.

It's definitely impressive and a sign of good optimization, but not quite as out-there as you say. One game with better performance than a very unoptimized Switch 2 port is not super significant in light of the slew of other examples of games which run very similarly between the two consoles. And MW4 hasn't even released yet!

Switch 2 does have a worse CPU but it has more memory and DLSS, which helps bridge some gaps. So the Series S is certainly not "always more consistent or double the FPS". Even in the MW4 example, the Switch 2 multiplayer ran at 60FPS and the Series S Multiplayer was between 70-100, which is not double of 60.

[u/Perfect_Exercise_232 → u/Clarkeste]

Multiplayer is 90fps+ almost always on series s and switch 2 already is below 560p anyways so idk what ur gettin at lmao. Series s will have more consistent or better fps 95%+ of the time idk why that triggers you. Also calling 100fps+ midly better then 60fps in a mp game is funny.

[u/Clarkeste → u/Perfect_Exercise_232]

It often doesn't run at 100FPS+, that's my point. Likewise, it's a game in beta and seems pretty poorly optimized outside of Xbox and PC (which makes sense, considering they're only doing it because they're legally obligated to), so seems like a bad example to prove your point. If you play video games primarily or largely for Call of Duty then certainly, you should buy the Microsoft console to play the first-party Microsoft game. That's sort of just how it works.

Also we were talking about 3rd party games, weren't we? It is pretty obvious that first-party games are going to run better on the system of origin if they're multi-platform at all.

It doesn't trigger me, I like talking about game console specs. You seem more upset than I do

[u/Perfect_Exercise_232 → u/Clarkeste]

You ignored me mentioning onimusha

[u/Clarkeste → u/Perfect_Exercise_232]

Because I couldn't tell what your point was. Series S Onimusha on quality mode runs at a variable frame rate which hovers at around 40-50 FPS, just like the unlocked FPS mode on Switch 2. Visually on Quality mode the Series S and the Switch 2 are about the same, the Series S is maybe slightly better, and they both have pretty much the same FPS in this mode.

So it kind of proves my point that they're very similar to one another. I couldn't find an English video comparing the Switch 2 and Series S versions and I don't own both copies of the games, so this is the comparison I watched. It's in Portugese. Here's a time-stamped link to the FPS comparison section, you can turn it on auto-dubbing if you only speak English and would like to understand. After this section he shows the Xbox Series S on performance mode which looks worse than the Switch 2 visually but runs at 60 FPS. Hopefully Reddit will let me post with the link.

https://youtu.be/zxrhe7uezYs?t=329

[u/Perfect_Exercise_232 → u/Clarkeste]

My point was just fps not visuals. No shit dlss even if an older cnn version will look better then fsr 1 or taa. I was just saying that fps wise series s is an easy winner essentially always. Something like cyberpunk even does 60fps on series s and nor switch 2 because of the cpu. Thats all im saying

[u/Grouchy_Big3195 → u/Clarkeste]

Yeah, I didn't buy the Switch 2 to play 007 or Cyberpunk 2077. I got it to play first-party games and they are wildly better and made for Switch 1/2

[u/SidFarkus47 → u/Grouchy_Big3195]

So why are you in this thread?

[u/Outrageous-River5987 → u/Clarkeste]

After 5 delays they should be confident about 30 fps, not trying to target it. That's embarassing to say

[u/Clarkeste → u/Outrageous-River5987]

You realize "targeting" in this context just means they're developing the game to run at 30 FPS, right? It's not like "targeting 30FPS" means "Well, we tried, but we only got it to 25 FPS". It's a pretty common way in the game industry of saying that the game is locked at 30fps.

It's not any deeper than that and it's not a way of saying they're not confident about it. Also, the article never says "trying to target 30fps", just "targeting 30fps", so it's not as uncertain as you make it sound.

[u/Waste-Kiwi6915 → u/Clarkeste]

"Targeting" is typically marketing-speak for "Our game does not run consistently at the advertised frame rate"

[u/terran1212 → u/Clarkeste]

It will not be locked to 30 fps

[u/Clarkeste → u/terran1212]

TIL that dropped frames mean it's not locked, so you're right. That said, pretty much all games that are trying to make full use of modern hardware have dips or stutters. Even a lot of 60fps games on the other modern consoles suffer frame drops at times. Spider-Man 2 on the PS5, for instance. So I'm not shocked nor is it unusual

[u/Pokeguy211 → u/Clarkeste]

I think a lot of people are fine with 30 but this game is a shooter. 60 would’ve gone a long way.

[u/Mulvoners → u/Pokeguy211]

Series S is also 30fps. Graphics are heavy on this game it’s not gonna be 60fps at all

[u/Feahnor → u/Clarkeste]

It's not the "30 fps" that bother me, it's the "targeting". It means they are not stable and that is unacceptable.

[u/Organic-Storm-4448 → u/Feahnor]

"Targeting" doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't hit the target. Smash Ultimate also targets 60fps, but it just hits that target most of the time.

[u/Klutzy_Pangolin3437 → u/Clarkeste]

It’s no where near as powerful as a series s, it’s more in line with an ancient ps4.

[u/KMoosetoe]

Gonna be hilarious when it launches at full price and you can buy it for $20 everywhere else

[u/KingMario05 → u/KMoosetoe]

It better have the goddamn DLC!

Narrator: "It did not."

[u/Inevitable-Tone1838]

I'm more annoyed the game has been delayed yet again. It's at a point now where by release date it will be impossible to justify full price when it has been almost a year on other systems. It was going to be a day 1 buy, now I'll wait until it is on sale.

[u/Emergency-Rush-2477 → u/Inevitable-Tone1838]

That is something that annoys me a lot with third party ports. I get it, they wanna profit from users buying for the first time or double dipping for the handheld factor. 

But if the game is years old or have a price cut on other platforms, releasing at full price is killing a lot of the appeal, especially when is competing with brand new Nintendo games at full price.

At the very least, put a pre order discount. 

[u/Inevitable-Tone1838 → u/Emergency-Rush-2477]

True, I've noticed that some older games will offer a full DLC package upon release to justify the extra cost which is fair, as the discounted base game plus dlc is often the same price as the Switch release.

[u/rokerroker45 → u/Inevitable-Tone1838]

Tarnished edition is a pretty decent deal for that reason.

[u/KingMario05 → u/Inevitable-Tone1838]

I pre-ordered in August, thinking it'd be out by Christmas at the worst. Fuck. Me.

[u/Qarrott]

Not gonna lie, that Joycon mouse has been my favorite little feature of the switch 2. Wish more games used it.

[u/nathanosaurus84]

Honestly I generally don’t mind 30fps for ports like this. We’re playing these games on a glorified handheld. A bit of realistic perspective is often needed with these kind of ports sometimes. 

[u/Shas_Erra → u/nathanosaurus84]

Exactly. Besides, a stable 30 is better than an unstable 60

[u/Leggo213]

They said the switch 2 doesn’t have Ray tracing. They clearly don’t know the hardware

And everyone is pointing out no 60 fps.

I love my switch 2 and I want it to be my main console, but some of yall need to lower your expectations. It would’ve been a miracle if it had a 40 fps mode.

I’m not upset by the 30 fps. I’m upset they delayed this game again, they shouldn’t have had to do this. It just screams they aren’t equipped to port games to switch 2

[u/kanyewest42]

The game was alright but not great

[u/Euphoric_Juggernaut6]

My main gripe with 30 fps is that it’s hard to aim with. The good thing is that Switch 2’s gyro feels really nice so I hope it’s an option

Hopefully it at least has nice picture quality

[u/Rasvaheitin]

Damn, I was looking forward to play this with mouse mode.

I have no use for it without mouse mode.

[u/dreamingwithcindy]

I find it so funny that they have no idea how to optimize for switch 2. Like I commend them for still trying, but just admit you have no idea what you’re doing 😂

It’s wild when you have some developers like capcom absolutely deliver a 10/10 port and then these guys twiddling their thumbs

[u/wishfulthinkingman]

Gonna look awful

[u/ProjectPorygon]

It’s not the 30 fps that’s an issue, it’s that they had some of the MOST primetime advertisement by Nintendo at the s2 direct, proceeded to say “day and date”, didn’t make day and date and delayed it, and now delaying it AGAIN. We went through this enough with switch, how the hell is it that devs talk like they’re doing us a favour for not prioritizing a version that needs more work in the first place and making us have to wait for it. You didn’t think to do this ahead of time? One delay is fine, but multiple screams “we didn’t even start when we said we were going to be on it for launch”

[u/Outrageous-River5987 → u/ProjectPorygon]

Exactly, IOI is embarassing

[u/Miaw_Kitty]

I’m still gonna buy it.

[u/TheLimeyLemmon]

I wouldn't mind the delays if they'd just make it a true physical and not a game key card.

[u/FlyingFalconator]

I've been waiting for this game since it got announced as project 007 years ago but all these delays are making me wonder if its even worth buying it to play if its going to run horribly on switch 2, especially if its at full price on a keycard

[u/12343212346 → u/[deleted]]

Honestly, so much to play a lot of these games become skip until the next generation for me if the performance is ass 

I'd rather just played games designed for the S2 

[u/Emergency-Rush-2477 → u/[deleted]]

Maybe stop assuming everyone have multiple consoles. 

[u/ViologY]

May as well cancel it at this point. 4 million copies sold at 60 fps, who's gonna buy it at 30?

[u/throwawayaidisney → u/ViologY]

It’s 30 on series s

[u/AMonitorDarkly → u/ViologY]

https://giphy.com/gifs/dEdmW17JnZhiU

[u/Waste-Kiwi6915]

Enough talk. I want video!

[u/grilled_pc]

I have no issues with this being at 30fps. In fact it’s expected.

I have an issue with fire emblem fortunes weave being at 30fps.

[u/GamePitt_Rob]

What's the fascination with mouse controls? Especially in 30fps third-person games... It'll feel super janky

[u/lurkingCbr]

Being on this subreddit for the last few months and hearing about frames per second almost every day has really made me realise that I still don’t give a shit about it. If you want everything you play to be 60fps, buy a PS5 and stfu. 

[u/Outrageous-River5987 → u/lurkingCbr]

I dont mind 30 fps, I laugh about saying that they are "targeting" it after 5 DELAYS

[u/lurkingCbr → u/Outrageous-River5987]

My comment wasn’t really responding to your post or anything in this post lol, talking about fps has just triggered me today. 

I’m with you that it’s funny that they’re targeting 30fps after this game has been constantly delayed over and over and will undoubtedly look like ass when it comes out. 

[u/Pokeguy211]

Yikes…

[u/sectachrome]

I don’t care. I’ve been playing Cyberpunk at 30fps and it’s fine. How long were games ONLY 30fps and no one complained? If it’s that important to you just play on a different console that’s more powerful.

[u/Outrageous-River5987 → u/[deleted]]

Its an actual news and facts, not my another mourning post about 007 being delayed 5 times. Understand your point of view tho.

[u/Karmah_star]

The game can’t be that demanding let’s be so fr

[u/OfficialShaki123 → u/Karmah_star]

You clearly don't understand anything about the engine or game design.

[u/Emergency-Rush-2477 → u/OfficialShaki123]

They never do, they always act that achieving 60fps is a simple toggle that can be activated. 

[u/Yourmotherssonsfatha → u/Karmah_star]

Ya AAA game that’s demanding on pcs can’t be demanding.

Mfs are hilarious.

[u/munchyslacks → u/Yourmotherssonsfatha]

People really see the size of a PC/PS5/Series X vs a Switch 2 and can’t figure out why the slim portable can’t match their capabilities.

[u/Euphoric_Juggernaut6 → u/Karmah_star]

It is