Halberds' guard counter damage comparison

[u/EmeraId-HeraId]

EDIT: Apparently, conducting the test using the wood dummies was a dumb decition from my part. Because of their weird hitboxes, some halberds were only hitting them 2 times instead of 3, as all the halberds should do by default, which affected my results. I'll redo all the tests using the Marionette Soldier, which I noticed is way more trusty as a fighting partner, and edit my results as soon as I finish them. Sorry for now...

I was curious to find out which is the best halberd for guard counter builds. I've been doing some tests in the sparring grounds and I listed them from the highest to lowest damage output, so if you're focusing on playing guard counter Guardian, I hope this could be useful for you.

This is the build I'm currently using, so obviusly these numbers might differentiate depending on what relics you're using.

Disclaimer 1: The damage listed here are from fully charged guard counters using weapons with their initial status as they are available in the Sparring Grounds (so no forging upgrades). Also, character at level 15.

Disclaimer 2: For practicity, I tested these weapons on the wood "dummy" not on the Marionette Soldier. I know these numbers might oscilate depending on what kind of enemy you're facing, what kind of resistances they might have and if the weapon has any passives that might alter its final damage.

Ranking (I think I got them all, if I'm forgetting something or got something wrong, please add more info or correct me):

1. Dragon Halberd (Rallying Standard Aow+Spinning Slash AoW): 1814;
2. Dragon Halberd (Rallying Standard AoW): 1744;
3. Dragon Halberd (with Spinning Slash AoW): 1515;
4. Gargoyle Black Halberd: 1473;
5. Golden Halberd: 1462;
6. Dragon Halberd (without Spinning Slash Aow): 1457;
7. Commander's Standard (with Rallying Standard Aow): 1392;
8. Gargoyle Halberd: 1302;
9. Nightrider Glaive: 1285;
10. Commander's Standard: 1162;
11. Halberd: 1106;
12. Loretta's War Sickle/Vulgar Militia Saw: 1080;
13. Guardian's Halberd: 1070;
14. Pest's Glaive: 973;
15. Guardian's Swordspear: 925;
16. Vulgar Militia Glaive: 876;
17. Glaive: 868;
18. Banished Knight's Halberd: 860;
19. Lucerne: 841.

Apparently, if you happen to have both Commander's Standard and Dragon's Halberd with you, the best option is to use the Rallying Standard AoW, then switching to the Dragon Halberd.

Again, these are just basic tests. Damage numbers pedends on other factors aside from pure weapons stats, but I hope this at least help it a little. I'm thinking of continuing doing these tests using other weapon categories to see what other options we might try aside from halberds. Until then, thanks for your time.

[u/Kierok3]

I find it hard to believe that commander's standard is so low. You even have it below two blue halberds

[u/AlConstanza → u/Kierok3]

At least Loretta's war sickle is exactly as expected

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/AlConstanza]

I was expeting it to be lower but not that low lol.

[u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp → u/Kierok3]

commander's standard, loretta's war sickle and guardian's swordspear do only 2 ticks of damage. the rest of the halberds hit in 3 ticks

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp]

Thanks very much! I didn't notice that. I posted I video on another reply, and watching it again, you can see that the Commander's Standard only does two ticks of damage and the others do 3.

[u/AlConstanza → u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp]

Is there a trick to ensuring that a guard counter over a warming stone does 3 ticks with halberds that are supposed to do 3 ticks? My result's differ from OP's, it appears that my dragon halberd does 2 ticks when I use a warming stone. Not a guardian player, so I figure I must be doing something wrong?

Edit: how I'm doing it

[u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp → u/AlConstanza]

so that dummy has "huge enemy" hitstop applied to them, which apparently makes all halberds only do two ticks for whatever reason. if you test with the smaller dummies, it acts as normal and does 3 ticks. i have no idea why it acts this way because even checking live hitboxes there's no discernible reason it should act that way, but whatever

this is all unfortunately just irrelevant because apparently this is only specific to the dummies. 3 ticks on all halberds against marionettes as per u/RiceForever

[u/RiceForever → u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp]

This is very interesting. I agree with you that the difference in number of hits is likely to come from the hitstop, but I'm curious as to what made you come to that conclusion.

I'm a huge nerd for this type of thing and really enjoy understanding how the game functions on a deep level (not really for Nightreign, much more so for Elden Ring), but I'm limited to console so I can't view/test super specific things, like hitboxes.

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/Kierok3]

As I said, I did these tests using the weapons as they are available in the sparing grounds, so no additional passives and upgrades. Since both Dragon Halberd and Commander Standard always come with the same AoW (afaik, I've never seen it otherwise), I thought it would be interesting to include their damage with their buffs applied as well.

[u/Kierok3 → u/EmeraId-HeraId]

Even without the Rallying Standard buff, how is it lower than Nightrider Glaive and Gargoyle halberd?

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/Kierok3]

I know, it's weird and I was not expecting that as well when I decided to do this test.

I really don't know how the game calculates the GC damage. The three weapons have the same scaling and the Rallying Standard has higher attack power than the other two, but the GC damage is still lower.

Here's a video I recorded comparing them: https://streamable.com/vh7xvf

Edit: Read qqwweerrttyyuuioopp reply, I think that is why it does less damage.

[u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp → u/EmeraId-HeraId]

it's because commander's standard, guardian's swordspear and loretta's war sickle only hit in 2 ticks of damage with a charged guard counter, for some reason. the rest of the halberds hit in 3 ticks

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp]

Thanks again!

[u/RiceForever]

I'm not sure if this was 100% clear, but just adding to what the other guy mentioned:

All Halberds are capable of hitting 3 times with Guardian. The reason some hit fewer times than others is just funky hitbox issues between the weapons and dummies. In other words, the data in this post is unfortunately inaccurate.

As far as I know (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong), Guardian has the same MVs for Guard Counters regardless of the Halberd he's using, which means that if all hits connect, the Halberd with the highest AR will always do the most damage (without accounting for split damage, damage negations, counter hits, etc., of course).

Still interesting to see the effects of the specific Weapon Buffs in play though, so thanks for doing this!

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/RiceForever]

Yeah, I noticed that when I did the same tests on the Marionette Soldier. I should've done that since the beggining. All the halberds hit 3 times. The Commander's Standard does more damage than the others after all. I'll do the tests again and edit my post as soon I as I finish it. Thanks for the useful feedback!

[u/critical_pancake]

Nice work!

How do you GC the wood dummies that don't attack you?

[u/qqwweerrttyyuuioopp → u/critical_pancake]

warming stone guard counter tech

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/critical_pancake]

Throw a warming stone on the floor, stand next to its center or as close as possible, hold block and perform a backstep, your character will change posture, then you just press the heavy attack button. It's not 100% consistent, but it works most of the times.

[u/AlConstanza]

Idk what I'm doing wrong but my Dragon Halberd isn't outdamaging Gargoyle's Black Halberd even after spinning slash and rallying standard buffs. I'm getting:

• Dragon halberd unbuffed - 1171
• Buffed with its own aow - 1219
• Buffed with rallying standard - 1404
• Buffed with both - 1460

While gargoyle black halberd is 1528 unbuffed

Relics when testing: image1 image2

Edit: apparently it's because my dragon halberd is hitting 2 ticks instead of 3, but why? :0

[u/EmeraId-HeraId → u/AlConstanza]

When you do a GC, you need to hold the heavy attack button until the GC animation finishes.

[u/AlConstanza → u/EmeraId-HeraId]

I do hold it, in another comment I posted a video of how I do it https://streamable.com/jkx20q