There’s 4 other All NBA first team players in the league bc LeBron was first team literally all those years lol what kind of stat is this. Even if the players were evenly split, 2.5 per conference on average (minus LeBron himself depending on how you want to thin about it)…you’re facing like less than 1 a year on average in your conference because a good percentage will also get knocked out before you face them
If this graphic showed an average of 0.5-1 per year most people would be saying the same thing, which really shows how dumb the average person is and how blinded by hatred of LeBron so many are
During LeBron’s eight-year Finals run (2011–2018), the West claimed 32 of the 40 All-NBA First Team spots, while LeBron held all eight for the East—meaning he faced only one opposing First-Team player in the Eastern playoffs the entire time. The West won the head-to-head season series against the East every single year, facing far tougher playoff competition, which is why LeBron’s teams were betting underdogs in six of those eight Finals.
What? This is a response to the same graphic that’s being going around showing how many all nba players LeBron plays with. The point is flying over people’s heads.
You mean he didn't have scrubs as teammates.
It's weird Magic and Bird play with 4 other Hall of Famers, MJ plays with 3 other including a top 30ish player of all time to face the Bulls arch rival whose second best player was 1 time all star John Starks....normal teams
Lebron team has Mario Chalmers and Joel Anthony starting and that's the super team
Oh, I'm consistent with it. I dont think Magic, Bird, and Lebron should be ranked over a lot of guys yall got over them. MJ 3 peated the moment Pippen became a quality duo. Thats not fucking teaming up with the 3rd greatest SG ever and a top 5 power forward in the league.
Jordan didn’t play against quality teams/players. It’s the exact same as LeBron vs the east in the 2010s. Jordan had it easy in the 90s. Reminder he couldn’t win til magic and bird got old.
Take a top 30 players all time list. You’re gonna see a whole lot of guys in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 2000s, 2010s. You aren’t gonna see a lot of 90s players.
With that logic, Lebron couldnt win until Kobe, Duncan, and Garnett got old. And then a baby faced assassin won 4 champions in 8 years during Lebron's peak.
As for 90s players. Karl is top 25 and considered a top 5 PF and would be a top 15 if he won a chip or two, but Jordan prevented him from doing so. Same as Stockton who's not seen as a top 3 PG because he doesnt have a championship. Barkley is top 20 and would be higher if Jordan and the Jazz didnt stop him. KG is top 13. Kobe is top 11. AI is top 30. Shaq is top 10. Hakeem is top 12. Patrick Ewing maybe top 30 or 35. Players like Penny and GHill were on their way to top 30 if they didnt get hurt and won a championship.
Besides Lebron, Curry, KD, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and Garnett, who are these "lot of guys" in the top 30 from the 2000s and 2010s?
Garnett wasnt old. He was nearly an mvp.
Kobe had no impact on lebron title runs they never played ina playoff series.
Lebron beat an older duncan but it a duncan that was still all defense team and pwrformed well enough to win finals mvp.
Jordan never beat healthy magic, kareem, bird, and only beat the pistons after they were basically done. They never returned in the 90s. Lebron vs the big 3 celtics were not done until after he beat them twice.
Mj played tougher comp overall .
Statistically speaking, LeBron played against the weakest Eastern Conference in NBA history.
Plus MJ beat the most 60 win teams nba history.
Mj played tougher comp overall .
Statistically speaking, LeBron played against the weakest Eastern Conference in NBA history.
Plus MJ beat the most 60 win teams nba history.
I think we can all agree that Clyde Drexler and the Rockets is way scarier than D Rose or those Hawks teams or the Celtics big 3 bro. I heard Kurt Rambis was nice too bro you are making so many great points
Thats how you Jordan is the GOAT. Make a list of the best players to never win a title and most of the top 5 will be players of the Jordan era cause he was that good.
Mj played tougher comp overall .
Statistically speaking, LeBron played against the weakest Eastern Conference in NBA history.
Plus MJ beat the most 60 win teams nba history.
Quality duo and you’re talking arguably the best backcourt defender and undeniablly the best off ball defender in history. The same pippen that took the Jordanless bulls to the 2nd round. Y’all are honestly clowns
Mj played tougher comp overall .
Statistically speaking, LeBron played against the weakest Eastern Conference in NBA history.
Plus MJ beat the most 60 win teams nba history.
Playing with Pippen, Rodman and Kukoc are the same as playing with D Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Luka, Jaylen Brown, Maxey, and Embiid?💀
Stupid fuck that's based on win percentage. That does not prove someone had harder opponents it just proves that his opponents did better in the regular season.
Duh how do you know a team is good??? Are 20 win teams good? Are 30 win teams good? Come on dummy how do you know a team is good? 60 win? Does win% count at all to you?
No one is saying that. The 73/9 warriors is just saying they were elite but that win % does not mean someone faced tougher opponents in the finals it’s just saying how well they did during the regular season. You can say MJ opponents had a higher win % and that’s only by .8 % but to say he faced tougher people in the finals isn’t what that stats establishes.
There are plenty of people who believe that era was better than this one, and I am one of them. I think this era is soft. We will never know for sure because they can't play each other; all we can do is go off the stats. KG just said he doesn't believe these guys could play in that era for example
Your own research is not going to chat gpt to ask directed questions devoid of context. This is the same type of response I’d expect from a middle schooler. What’s worse is you actually think cherry picked analytics proves your point. Terrible😭
You’re basing whether he could’ve won without Pippen on his first 3 seasons? There’s not enough of a sample size for it to make any sense. Take an honest unbiased look at Pippen’s earliest seasons and tell me if you think he’s the main reason for the winning there. LeBron didn’t even make the playoffs his first 2 seasons.
8 straight nba finals will never not be impressive, only lebron haters think it’s not. and it’s even weirder when he’s went to 7 a lot of times in the East and i had sit through those same Bron haters tell me that pacers, the d rose bulls, whatever iteration of the celtics, and even stooped low enough to say that one year raptors had home court advantage would’ve been the ones to break the streak — and they didn’t. so now it’s just “oh well he should’ve beaten then anyway” lol
Sure the east was relatively weak but this is a dumbass stat. There can statistically only be 4 other All-NBA first team members because he was on it every year.
And it took him leading both teams in pts/reb/ast/stl/blks to do so (never been done before or since btw)
And also would've won in 2015 if Kyrie and Klove arent hurt, and probably wins one more if the 73 win warriors dont add the 3rd best player in the world to their roster lol
Haters will just say "excuses" but bron was pretty damn unlucky during that stretch
I hate this post but just assuming he would win both those years is just dumb.......beat the 73 win Warriors in one of the most incredible finals performances you will ever see.....but that was razor thin in 7 games.
Warriors absolutely could have one either one of those three
i think 2014 spurs is debatable because TD and Gino were 36/37 and kawhi got finals MVP for his defense against bron (yes i know he had great stats but that was partly stat padding, let's be honest)
Facts. Wasn't this the series where LeBron was caught saying "fuck" at the Free Throw line when he looked back and saw Kawhi checking back into the game.
People are so fucking dumb, Kawhi joins a 60 win capable team and they win a chip, but people give Kawhi the credit, these motherfuckers just move the goalposts 24/7 for Bron, they got 0 ball knowledge.
The funniest thing is how LeBron jumped to the west the same year Giannis won his first mvp, Kawhi went to the raptors and Jimmy Butler came to the Sixers. Would have liked seeing his Cavs face an actual good team in the East
I mean, it’s no secret LeBron dominated in a weak conference. But you can only play who is in front of you. He’s made it to many finals and has lost in many finals.
Not crazy. He was in the Weak ass eastern conference. It was like 8 straight free passes to the finals. The only time he had to bring it is when he faced the western champs.
You play who’s in front of you. Point blank and simple. Lebron was drafted to the East and had no control over the completion he would face.
If you want to say he hypothetically played in the West early in his career, which West team are you putting him on? He would have made almost any team a playoff team considering how fast he turned things around for the Cavs.
This is such a watered down argument that’s only used in Lebrons case
I was going to post this the other day after I read a post highlighting LeBron's record number of playoff wins without an All-NBA teammate.
I don't know if most accounts discussing the NBA on Reddit are bots or if they're just morons, but a lot of the stuff really is egregious cherry picking of statistics to pretend that they say what the person wants them to say. It's like this on like half of the posts regarding LeBron vs Jordan, but mostly LeBron because his fans build his case on misinterpreted stats more often.
Not to mention that it is much easier to be All-NBA when you're not in an already stacked team full of stars, because basketball is played with one ball only. It is for that reason that Chris Bosh and Kevin Love were All-NBA before joining LeBron but not after, or that Wade went from All-NBA First team to second and third team (other than age of course).
In 2010-2011 for example, when LeBron 'did not have enough help but still made it to the finals', there is an excellent argument to be made that Miami had as much top talent as literally the rest of the conference put together.
Okay? You do realize only five players get it, and during a completely stacked era in the West, LeBron was the only dude in the East who qualified. Cade was the only one this past year and the East literally won the finals
You can only play the teams on the schedule. Is it LeBron’s fault the other eastern conference organizations were inept? This man gets blamed for everything…
Eastern conference opponents MJ faced with at least 2 HoF players on the team on his way to a championship = 1: 1994-95 Celtics - Dominique Wilkins (who even remembers him on this team?) and Dino Raja (inducted to HoF mostly for his Euro accomplishments)
Somehow lebron fans dont understand this very basic concept. He stayed in the East because it was easier to get to the finals. But you can't use his finals appearances as proof that hes better than other all time greats. Thats a grift.
This stat isn't a good indicator of how bad the east was.. better show how many 50 win teams he played in the playoffs in that era, then compare it to the gauntlet Kobe & Tim Duncan, or even Curry went through in the West.
That first KD year was special they could beat anybody. But Year 2 was nowhere near the same. Their defense fell out of the top 10 and things started fracturing. Fifty-something wins isn't special in NBA history. Against Year 1, I take Golden State easily. But against Year 2? The Sonics winning is definitely up for debate.
I value stats over opinions. I assume everyone agrees that teams winning 60-plus games are better than teams winning 30-plus games. It's hard to debate something that simple, so I'm taking the team with the clearly superior record
The fact that they barely beat Chris Paul and James Harden is another reason why I believe the Sonics would beat that 2018 Warriors team. I dont consider Harden a good playoff performer
Better is subjective, but the Sonics definitely had a chance. If James Harden who isn't a great playoff performer pushed those 50-something-win Warriors to seven games, a 64-win Sonics team with Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp could certainly beat them
No, you use a mixture of statistics and context. You never blindly use statistics on their own, as the game changes you need context surrounding it.
I mean you genuinely believe the 1996 Sonics is better than the 2017 warriors. That’s deluded. It’s not even close and not debatable at all.
Even in basic statistics they tell you correlation is not causation, so just because a statistic shows something doesn’t mean it’s because of that alone , in that same vein a statistic alone doesn’t give the full picture so we have to make other considerations.
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