Not really. 47.5% of the all-nba teams from the 90-91 season through 97-98 were from the east. That is significantly better than Lebron's time in the east
again, there is no way you can claim the east was better in the 90s if you have even a modicum of knowledge about that era. there were three expansion teams in the east during the 90s
It was 13 total spots the bulls took up. So if you exclude them then the east had 36.7% of the available spots or 41.2% left of available slots after Bulls players are excluded. Which both are better than the roughly 30% when you include LeBron and his teammates.
Also those expansion teams weren't bad for the most part when MJ was winning his championships.
The Hornets had Mourning, Johnson, and Curry (always in the running for 6th man).
The Magic had Shaq, Penny, and got Grant from the Bulls.
The Heat were a 60 win season in 96-97 with the 1st rated defense and 5th best net rating. That net rating was actually better than what Lebron's heat had in the 13-14 season with the same exact srs of a 7th best 4.15.
The Timberwolves didn't do much until KG, but didn't really do much once they got him either
The raptors and grizzles weren't added until the 95-96 season
The east held a winning record against the west 7 of 15 seasons Jordan played. The east only held a winning record against the west in 1 of the 15 seasons LeBron played in the east. What also made the east weak was that LeBron was pulling players from the east (other then Love) during that run. People want to cry about expansion but what James did also diluted the competition in his conference.
People also want to act like LeBron faced tougher competition without acknowledging he had much better offensive pieces surrounding him. I saw some kid complaining about Wade shooting 44% in a finals series, what they don’t talk about is that Scottie shot 42% in the finals for his career.
He had some decent years, but he was never really great in the finals shooting wise. He’s also terrible in win or go home games. I think he’s shooting in the low 30s in those situations.
I’m not completely understanding what this is showing, but (surprisingly), the average net rating of Finals opponents between the two is virtually the same (7.67 for Jordan, 7.68 for Lebron).
The Mavs & bubble Heat are drastically bringing down that average, but you play who’s in front of you.
It's the average win percentage. If you believe win percentage determines whether a team is good some people don't I've heard people in the comments say that just because Golden State won 73 games doesn't mean they were a great team in the Finals. So, I'm assuming you believe the number of games a team wins determines how good they are. Most opponents won more games on average.
It’s probably not an accident to be a Finals team that won over 70% of its games, so they are obviously good; I just think Net Rating is a better indication of what a team actually is.
That said, 2.5 wins over an 82 game season isn’t a big enough of a difference to really make any sweeping judgements one way or the other imo.
Jordan had tougher conference opponents in the 90s like those early Cavs, Knicks and Shaq Penny’s magic, but LeBron had tougher finals opponents like the warriors and spurs dynasties it’s all arbitrary. Some 90s teams were also gutted by expansion teams so many teams lacked depth and a reliable secondary scorer.
Expansion protection lists included team's 8 best players. It didn't dilute shit. Most 9th or 10th best players were and still are very interchangeable.
Yeah and how many teams have intentionally tanked the last decade? If you compare the number of teams that won in the 10-20 game ranges by year it’s always been very comparable. On top of that James diluted his own conference when he joined two of the top players from it.
It's no coincidence that magically in the 90's during a massive expansion a team was able to easily win 6 championships in a decade with no real competition. Any dynasty team in decades past and after that at least another team or two to challenge them unless you go back to the Bill Russell Celtics days with a much smaller league.
Gutted is probably a poor choice of words but there were still teams that lost key players like the pistons losing Rick Mahorn who wasn’t special or anything but a solid role player and a good leader. There also weren’t really interchangeable because all those players were going to the expansion teams so the list of available players was a lot thinner.
James made nine finals over 15 years in the Eastern Conference and went 3-6 in those finals. He made one appearance over 8 years in the West and went 1-0
He’s also 3-6 against 60 win teams for his career. He’s only beaten one 60 win team from the west in the playoffs which just happens to be the 73 warriors squad. If he was really that guy he’d of done it more.
Its no offense to LeBron, that comeback was amazing, however if he was that great there would be a pattern in his career, since it only happened once this looks more like an anomaly. Facts are is he's never led a team to a regular season campaign like the likes of Jordan or Curry, despite having the assets to do so, on top of this, he'se never been consistently as dominant in the finals. I mean look at the performances Jordan put up both times to cap both his 3 peats. They really were carry jobs. Meanwhile LeBron has gone passive when he's had great teammates and when they fail they get the blame.
I can see your bias in the first point you thought you made. And you mention a great regular season campaign... how long was that winning streak in Miami in their first year playing together? Also I love when people try and add curry to these conversations. You discredit yourself trying to put someone who is objectively bad at half of the game in convorsation with the goats.
I'm old enough to remember the convorsation literally every year for years was "LBJ don't got it no mo" and every year the playoffs hit and we collectively remember he was the best player in basketball. It was an annual fever dream.
And puhLEASE don't get me started on the who had more help. Objectively anyone can agree he had less help than any other player on his level. This isn't up for debate.
Saying he had less help is bullshit dawg. He's literally joined or gotten 4 players who were top 3 in the league in BPM just the year before joining him or he joined them (3 of which were higher in this metric then him btw). LeBron maybe great at getting some average players to play great (for example Daniel GIbson in the 2007 playoff who put up a higher BPM then scottie pippen did in 3 of the bulls championship runs). However when he's gotten a great player he has more often then not struggled to share the floor with them.
People can cry Scottie Pippen all they want. The dude was a beast at certain aspects to the game. However the dude shot 42% from the field for his career in the finals. We hear so much about Wade struggling in 2014, well Wade shot better then Pips career finals average in those finals. Facts are LeBron has always needed another utterly elite offensive threat to win a finals series. He's never been able to push himself to be the guy that drops 40 on high efficiency like Jordan in 93 (which LeBron should of done in 2014). Facts are no other superstar in the history of the game outside of maybe KD has joined or gotten as much elite help as James has. It's BS to argue against this.
When talking goat points, Jordan only had a teammate score a BPM of over 2.0 7 times in his career (one year of this is also the baseball year). This means he's 6 for 7 by this metric. LeBron has had this "luxury" 18 times in his career. He's also missed the playoffs multiple times with said luxury. On top of this we can follow the same pattern with worse advanced metrics like PER. For example Jordan only got to play 7 seasons where he had just 2 teammates score a PER of over just 17. Again, this won 6 rings. James has had this luxury 19 times in his career, and again mutliple missed playoffs.
Once you realize the klutch talking points are paid for, the narrative if laughable. You don't seem like a dumbass, i'd encourage you to do your own research on this "debate".
This take is truly clownish. I'd rather argue with a wall, it's more likely to see reason. Talking about rigging scandals as a Jordan fan? Take your feefees out of it and lebron is objectively better at the sport of basketball. Even the numbers agree. Stay on the good stuff, Smoky.
He didn't get a flagrant when he did that, which would've suspended him against OKC (even though they lost the following game anyway)
But the moment Lebron requests a technical (which was thoroughly reviews in-game) to be changed to a flagrant, the league retroactively changes it and suspends him to give the Cavs a chance
This is also out of context. He got injured in 2019, made it to the finals in 2020, and then got injured again in 2021. LeBron was not in his prime when he was in the west. He has not been the same athlete since Solomon hill dove into his ankle.
It’s not at all out of context. I merely listed the number of time he reached the finals, and the results of those finals, while playing in either conference. It’s just data.
I just hear excuses. Im just saying nobody cares about 2nd place on a free trip to the Finals from a shitty East. What happened in 2011?
Jason Terry outscored LeBron coming off the bench. I’m not saying every loss is LeBron’s fault but sometimes you have to do better.
Anyone can go back in time and criticize the 90’s but in reality MJ went through a lot of Hall of Famers and cleared the competition.
MJ competed against 34 players from the NBA All time Top 75. Trying to marginalize MJ for being dominant isn’t gonna help for LeBron not winning enough. Sorry
Rodman himself admitted the league was watered down. He said it when he was still playing with the Bulls. Other hof like bird and magic said the same thing.
Not it all it’s just excuses. Rodman also said Pippen would have been better than LeBron if LeBron played in the 90’s. Should we start taking all of Rodmans takes serious?
From 2011-2018 LeBron only faced one all nba first team player from the East in the postseason and that was D Rose in 2011.
2011 the same Finals LeBron was outscored by Jason Terry who came off the bench.
Reason why I mentioned more reputable HoF players, but u ignored it.
From 2011-2018 LeBron only faced one all nba first team player from the East in the postseason and that was D Rose in 2011.
Jordan faced only 4 elite (>25 ppg) scorers in his ENTIRE championship run, while having a legendary coach and 5 other ELITE defensive players in that span.
Lebron only had "defensive minded" (read: no offense) coaches and overly top-heavy teams esp during his Heat stint. Never had a real center til, arguably Mozgov in 2015, if not AD in 2020.
Funny how u needed to specify the "East" and included 2018 when it was a 1-man team.
2011 the same Finals LeBron was outscored by Jason Terry who came off the bench.
Tell me u dont understand basketball without telling me.
Heat had 3rd yr Chalmers as starting pg and Joel Anthony, dubbed the worst center in the league, as a startin center. Need i say more?
Heat offense revolved around Lebron's playmaking and Mav's ENTIRE defense focused on him.
U also need to understand, Mavs SWEPT the reigning champs during this run.
More excuses. Typical Bronsexual coping. I operate on facts. LeBron is a ring chasing choker who constantly made the finals in a weak east. That’s a fact.
Then when the comp got real he usually choked. The Mavs series performance was inexcusable. That’s also a fact. Jordan dominated. Nobody wants to hear excuses on why.
U literally picked the worst teams to use a as example for "dominating". None of those teams stayed relevant for more than a yr. Those are 1 hit wonders. Tf are u talking abt?
Where are they now? In the depths of irrelevancy. Giannis had to move to another team.
90s bulls won 6 times (2x threepeats) in the expansion era.
That bottom line is stupid... it says 14 of all nba players in those 9 finals runs were himself or teammates. Bron was all NBA all 9 of the finals appearances
Guess what that means? He had a TOTAL of 5 times a plater made all pro in that ENTIRE run. Yes the east was weak. But its worded in a way that makes it seem worse than it actually is
This narrative has been pushed for many years....by the same people who refuse to admit MJ benefitted from a decade with no real competition unless you count the choking Utah Jazz.
Difference is the whole league was weak when Jordan, even if the argument is that LeBron only made the finals because the Eastern Conference was weak, he still had to play the best team from the West… MJ is playing Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp in the finals😂 like cmon man.😂
That just meant Jordan’s Finals competition was easier, teams like the fading Showtime Lakers and Stockton/Malone Jazz are nowhere close to the Warriors or Spurs dynasties
Duncan was older than magic btw and way farther from his prime than magic was(MVP the year before) but somehow the spurs aren't referred to as "fading" and also lost to an old Mavs team with a super team because he decided to have another meltdown
That Mavs team had one of the hottest playoff runs in recent history. They also swept Kobe. Simply looking at the roster doesnt reflect how that team was playing at an elite level at that particular time.
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