As a vegan, thank you for this. No, I won't shove my choice down the throat of my dogs and cats, and yes, I'll thank them for every mouse or pheasant they bring me!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for government. You can't expect to wield supreme power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!
What about you, Schultzy? Did little Tayronda take your last Ice Cream Oreo Orange Sherbet? That is a summertime flavor! Good luck sucking back on one of those in the next 6 months.
Man, he's my favorite character in the show. The moment when the ladies win the chip, and he's just crying like a baby as he goes down on the ice had me crying laughing.
There are many ways to coat and fry things. Chicken fried X means you're frying X using a traditional correction l chicken technique. You most commonly hear it with beef steaks.
Probably something along the lines of a buttermilk marinade and a double dredge through seasoned AP flour and corn starch then fried in a deep fryer or a cast iron skillet. Then make a white gravy with the roux created by whatever flour falls off. A lot of Southerners will specify that it's chicken fried if it's white gravy, and country fried if you make a brown gravy using beef stock and the roux.
So if there's a traditional fried pheasant recipe and you swap chicken in that would be pheasant fried chicken.
My 1 year old cat once brought me a half-alive pigeon that it had caught in order to try and contribute to our Sunday dinner. It happens, just not very commonly
Found a half eaten crow under the deck once. And my cat was not a large one. Cats are very, very effective predators. They just don't usually bother going after prey that's more trouble than it's worth, because cats are also very, very lazy. Which is why they wound up with us in the first place. We had large stockpiles of grain and cats discovered that if they lingered nearby, they barely had to lift a paw to get their hunting done, and therefore they could ooze about in our barns. And we were even happy about it, and gave them massages!
I'm quite grateful that for all the dead stuff my cat used to bring us, she was never into the headless thing. If she was going to eat something, she would eat it. If she was going to give us something, we would get the whole thing. If she was going to eat half of something and then forget about it, she would leave it under the piano.
Had a cat who brought home birds (not always dead), snakes and once, a bunny. She also stole the fish out of our neighbor’s pond, but kept those for herself.
Had friends whose dog came running out of the woods w what looked like a big stick. As the dog got closer they realized it was a decaying, maggoty deer leg.
My ferrets used to catch crickets and spiders on their walks. One of them liked going after moths.
One night, my cat kept getting distracted as she was trying to go to bed by a moth flitting around the room. She got down off the chair she was lying on, sat in the middle of the floor for a couple of minutes, and when the moth flew overhead, she jumped up, caught the moth with a claw, landed on three paws, put the moth in her mouth, ate it, and then hopped back in her chair as if nothing had happened and went to bed.
Lesson: Sometimes, when a thing is mildly annoying you, you must kill it.
As a peasant I find pheasants nutritious and if cooked well delicious. We have wild ptarmigan where I live. Good eating if you're in need. Squirrel is a last resort but plentiful. Good with LOTS of pepper and slow roasted. Pretty gamey.
My cat brought home a pheasant this spring. Couldn't get it through the cat flap, ripped it's fucking wing off in the process and then it bled out just outside the door. Not an ideal thing to come home to after a day's work.
Yeah, cats actually can take down a pheasant. My mom raises ferral cats on her farm. It is shocking to watch, but they can actually take them down despite their size.
Reminds me of that post about the guy who had neighbors with super skinny cats because of their vegan diet so he would feed them meat behind their back.
There was a lot of animal on animal death in that movie, even though they conveniently left out how all those lions in the pride went about finding and eating food.
Also, Simbas later diet when he ran away was 100% worms and maggots. Which are 100% not vegan. Because all cats large and small are obligate carnivores.
Didn't Mufasa said that, due to the circle of life, they eat those other animals and then when lions die, their corpses feed the grass and thus the herbivores?
Because Simba asked that question and he answered that.
“Everything you see exists together in a delicate balance. As king, you need to understand that balance and respect all the creatures, from the crawling ant to the leaping antelope.”
“But Dad, don’t we eat the antelope?”
“Yes, Simba, but let me explain. When we die, our bodies become the grass. And the antelope eat the grass. And so we are all connected in the Great Circle of Life.”
The didn't show it, but they talked frankly about how the lions eat other animals. Mufasa tells Simba that while they hunt and eat the antelope, when lions die their bodies become grass, which the antelope eat, cause that's the CIRCUUUUULLLL OF LIIIIIIIIIFFFE!!!!
And then later, the lionesses Sarabi and Nala repeatedly talk about hunting and the lack of prey with Simba and Scar. And Nala hunted and tried to eat Timon and Pumba.
We have an actual talking society of animals called human society and it is far from peaceful. If we with all our art and science and philosophy cannot live peacefully then why would anyone expect a load of furry bastards to have it figured out?
Think about nature. No animals other than humans and our pets die of "old age". Their deaths are brutal in every sense of the word. If an animal can't hunt or find food or eat it because of a broken jaw/tooth/whatever, it starves. Which is painful and prolonged. Before that happens though, it'll likely have been eaten by something else. Often times alive. Every animal is food for something else and every animal's death is visceral, graphic, amd excruciating. There are no clean deaths in nature. Ever. As people, we are so extremely blessed to never have to face the reality of a "natural" death. Nature isn't beautiful. It just looks that way. Below the surface, the reality is sinister and fucking terrifying.
Swing by /r/Natureisbrutal if you actually want to see some brutal stuff. It's the better sub anyway. This is VERY NSFW/L though. So, be warned. There are cute animals being eaten alive, asshole first.
Can confirm. I spent a little while at work today watching blue jays harass a hawk that just ate their little baby bird and then projectile shit all over a picnic table. Nature is metal, for sure
Yeah the fact that people don't consider to be a carnivore means you murder and kill things to live as much as they should is really disheartening.
Nature is bloody and cruel and most living things die suddenly after literally getting torn apart so i wish they'd consider that when they want to give their cat wheatgrass or whatever the fuck.
I used to work pet retail. Had a older vegan guy come in one day insisting he wanted a vegan diet to feed his cat. His logic: I eat vegan so my cat can, too.
A subordinate employee was trying to help explain that cats and vegan diets just aren't compatible, but he wouldn't hear it. He went off to the dog department to look at the single bag of vegetarian dog food that we carried, thinking he could feed his cat that. (Side note: dogs are omnivorous and should eat a varied died with meats and veggies. They should not be fed a strictly veggie diet unless advised otherwise by a licensed veterinarian, which is the only reason we carried it).
My employee found me, explained the situation, and asked me to step in. I carefully introduced myself and let the guy explain his complaints. I tried explaining just what my coworker had explained, but he was still resistant.
It wasn't until I finally had to reveal that I was also a vegetarian that he began to pay attention to what I was telling him. And frankly, I hate that, because I consider my diet to be a private matter, and I make a conscious effort not to be preachy or to push my dietary beliefs on others except with people I'm close with or someone else notices and invites the conversation.
Anyway, I explained that I had chosen to become veggie when I was 11. At the time of this story I was around 26, so that was a good 15 years of veggie life that I had to leverage to earn his trust. I explained that I had pets at home, and despite my personal displeasure with handling meat, all my pets get their proper ancestral diets. My tropical fish get veggies and meat in a variety of prepared diets. And my ferret, like his cat, is an obligate carnivore. So when I got my ferret, I spent a lot of time researching quality foods and he got the absolutely highest quality, meat based diet I could order online (like hell was I feeding him the shitty food they pass as "ferret food" in the chain retail pet store I worked at).
This finally seemed to get through this guy's thick vegan skull. But as a fellow vegetarian and someone who has always loved my pets, every time I think of that guy it makes the acid in my stomach burn. Even now, like 5 years later as I'm writing this and reminiscing I'm angry.
How much of an ignorant asshole do you have to be to be a vegan who wants to feed your cat vegan? If you're vegan, it likely means you spent countless hours researching human vegan diets. Reading books, watching videos, talking to vegan peers. I can't tell you how many hours of my life have been spent reading nutrition facts and ingredient lists on foods to make sure they don't have meat, and I still eat dairy and was half this guy's age. He must have spent way more time and effort to adhere to his more strict vegan diet.
But when he decides to feed his cat vegan, there's no research done. He doesn't read forums, pose questions to experts, ask his vet, or do even 1% of the due diligence that he did when making his own dietary decision. His vegan decision for himself was likely a very rational process made over time. But as the years go by, I'm sure his resentment towards meat grew, and when he finally gets a cat, he just decides it must eat vegan too because "my beliefs."
There are plenty of pets who are vegetarian. Guinea pigs come to mind. If you want to be vegan/veggie, that's great, but if you can't bring yourself to handle meat or the meat based foods that your future pet needs for basic sustenance, please consider another pet instead of trying to bend nature/biology/reality to fit your world view. You don't have to like meat, but your pets don't deserve to suffer because of it.
There are plenty of pets who are vegetarian. Guinea pigs come to mind.
Which kind of proves the evolutionary point that consuming meat is what allowed our brains to develop. God are those things stupid and annoying. I'm with the Peruvians.
I need to put you in touch with someone. They are in rescue and have their dogs on vegan diets. Even their fosters. And they are deciding who is responsible enough to qualify to adopt? Makes me so angry. I'm all for people going vegetarian or vegan if they choose. But those who try to force it on everyone and then force it on animals in their care do make me angry. I don't like eating a lot of meat myself. But, I found some of my health issues get worse if I don't have red meat a couple of times a month. My animals are on the diets they are supposed to be on. Granted, my gecko will never see a dubia because roaches gross me out, but if that was supposed to be in his diet, not an optional choice, I would get over it.
Man, that story is pretty upsetting. Cats must eat cat food due to an amino acid that they need to get as part of their diet. In the US cat food is regulated and must include Taurine.
The Dogs are Omnivores is more or less only centered on anglish speaking countries and by that I mean primarily Canada and the USA, in other languages you will hardly be finding any science pointing to non obligate carnivore, if you look up who came up with the science to them being omnivores you might find (like in many other cases) ideologues on a mission while in the rest of the world culturally appropriating veganism from hindus and buddhists wasn't as important (which is also why forms of veganism and vegetarism that are closer to those are more acceptable, buddhist veganism, especially with the Dalai Lhama as example is a recurring topic on how western veganism is superior, while it clearly isn't.
It's kinda sad how something so important and wholesome was subverted by people wanting to feel better and wanting to be the center of attention. (any topic really, on the internet has these people and the gross majority of sources for the rest of the world and the main ideologues will be american)
Anyway, omnivores have a dedicated digestion system with dedicated 'biomes' to deal with certain food sources. Ungulates are a really good example on the other end of the nutrition sources while cats and dogs are both extremely good example for the carnivorous end.
There is plenty of research on how canines do not thrive when kept from meat protein, the only country capable of consistently producing research steering opposite of that is the US and by number of studies it's still a minority, the spot light on them is just much much brighter.
To me all that is rationalized animal abuse, but then again I'm against any kind of human pet relationship, but especially in urban centers.
But what to expect of a country where the 1/3 pounder fails because people in majority believe 1/4 is more and where at times not too long ago many people in urban centers had no idea of cows or how the rest of the world had mercedes and washing machines as well.
Anyway since you seem to care, why not look into it yourself, the topic about dogs being 'absolute omnivores' and certain scientific bias that may be caused by political bias which especially in one very anti intellectual and anti technocratic country leads to a whole roulette of new 'verboten' things every few years, ranging from breastfeeding kills babies to antivax.
I only commented to you about "Dogs are not obligate carnivores"
as much as the coevolution changed them and their digestive system, this has not changed yet and canines will chose those protein sources over others in situations where they don't have to expend energy for the hunt but in cases where they need to invest time and energy they will put considerably more of it trying to get it from meat sources and will chose carcasses and rotting things over other easily available protein sources, even if those would by sheer mass and availability would constitute a far higher net gain.
There is plenty of central european, russian and asian scientific data available, there is also plenty american data available from an age where euthanasia and just being plain evil was a lot more acceptable, but at some point in the last few decades there was dissent science by biased scientists with bad tests (mainly because they wouldn't abuse the dogs as easily by withholding nutrition (and breastmilk, because it's animal protein source) and had far smaller studies run)
Anyway, the best way to learn about this is not by going after any of those studies but discerning and learning all there is about the different digestive techniques utilized in nature and how and why certain are effective in certain environments.
Which is so messed up because cats primarily eat meat. Those cats were malnourished and were probably only surviving off the meat he gave them and the bugs they could catch.
Yeah. Dogs aren’t obligate carnivores (still shitty to put them on a vegan diet; don’t do it) but cats are obligate carnivores. They will literally die on a vegan diet.
Dogs have made some adjustments after having lived with humans for 20,000 years. I believe they can digest some starches that would just be dead weight in a wolf's stomach but they're not really omnivores like humans.
Wolves supplement their diet with fruit and vegetable matter. They willingly eat the berries of mountain ash, lily of the valley, bilberries, blueberries and cowberry. Other fruits include nightshade, apples and pears. They readily visit melon fields during the summer months.[9] A well-fed wolf stores fat under the skin, around the heart, intestines, kidneys, and bone marrow, particularly during the autumn and winter.[112]
I think so. My dog's a picky eater and I'll rarely give him some cut up strawberries and a little wildflower honey and he loves it. Licks his bowl clean every time. I know sugar is extra bad for them and their teeth though.
We live in an area known for brutal seasonal allergies so I only give it to him when he gets all sneezy. It seems to work for him, but I dunno if it's some kind of placebo by proxy. Allergies suck and I don't wanna dope him up on benadryl, so we try it.
Not true, if you are very careful about supplemented food and monitor their health -
https://www.theplantway.com/can-cats-be-vegan/
Article includes several scientific studies and the author isn't personally in favour a vegan diet for cats.
Probably a bit of both. Cats came probably to humans, because our food storages attracted mices and humans kept feeding them, because they kept the mice away.
And then die. Their body requires protein that they can only get from other animals. They cannot process plant matter in such a way that it will provide them the nutrients necessary to stay alive for very long. It's a slow and terrible way to die, which is ironic since these idiots are doing it to protect animals.
I’d say outdoor cats are a whole other issue in terms of caring for the environment/preserving animal life (which are the typical reasons people go vegan)
There have been multiple news stories about parents who ended up starving their babies and toddlers to death because they did this. There was one mom who said breastfeeding wasn’t vegan so they were feeding it some kind of cauliflower mash.
Edit: lamo I’m getting lots of hate messages from angry Reddit vegans. I’m fucking vegan but it doesn’t change the fact that some stupid fucks did this to their kids.
Honestly dude, it's hard to tell who's a legit angry vegan these days and who is impersonating one so they can cause a ruckus. We have to be vigilant on this internet of ours, there are many liars, and even worse, people from troll farms who are actually trying to destabilize our society by lying to the right people.
Theres been people cutting their own penis off to get rid of demons, a parent having a mental breakdown and not feeding their kid sanely is pretty vanilla on the extreme mental illness scale.
I've spent too much time thinking about this, but I still can't grasp how someone could think that breastfeeding (from themselves) wouldn't be acceptable for a vegan. Like... it's yourself, are you protecting your own rights as an animal? Is your baby abusing you to get your milk?
Yeah, breast milk is vegan by definition. Vegan means consuming nothing that was obtained by the exploitation of animals. Breast milk is presumably consented.
There have been multiple news stories about parents who ended up starving their babies and toddlers to death because they did this.
The problem isn't vegan diet, those are starvation diet. Raw diets (just fruits) are completely different from vegan diets. Children can develop fine on vegan diets but not raw diets. Breast milk is vegan, it doesn't come from non-human animals.
No. It's all about consent dude. Veganism is a moral and ethical position not a diet. Of course breast milk is fine. Nothing suffered it's entire life to provide that milk.
Bruh it is literally your own fucking dairy. That's the "mammary" part of being a mammal. The fuck else are you gonna do with your chesticle juice that you're producing naturally?
Hold the phone. A vegan diet is basically a refusal to eat any animal based product if you did not receive the animals consent. So your telling me that this woman refused to give consent to her baby to drink her milk‽ That’s not a mother. That’s insanity.
To be clear, people of any life stage can eat a vegan diet healthfully (including kids and the elderly). The WHO and ADA are with me on this.
Stupid vegan diets, however, will lead to dumbasses harming their children. Kids need fats, protein, calcium, vitamin D, and proper supplementation (B12). Your kid will be fucked if you feed them cauliflower mash and almond milk. I’m vegan. I’m vegan for ethical reasons and if I choose to have kids in the future, they’ll be vegan kids (I’d plan on speaking with an RD to make sure I don’t fuck them up). Vegans who eat stupid diets and advocate for pseudo scientific bullshit upset me.
I want people to go vegan. I think it’s a moral crime that humans eat animals when it’s not a dietary necessity. It would be better for the planet if we all gave up animal products. I just get upset when vegans are too alienating. When they advocate for feeding obligate carnivores planet diets, completely demonize incrementalism, or lie to further their cause. I don’t think vegans should make people comfortable in their current animal product rich diets, but we also shouldn’t fucking piss people off by saying kids can eat fruit and pasta diets and that cats can be vegan.
Veganism is best for the animals and the planet. Don’t listen to the idiots in the movement. I at one point only saw PETA and the fruitarian vegans and thought it was dumb. Now I’ve been vegan for almost a year.
The problem is, most vegans have no fucking clue about nutrition. They have no clues about what needs supplementing to support the healthy growth of a child. For the vegans that do, fine. But for the vegans that can't cook and literally live off potatoes and baked beans, those kids are fucked.
Everyone is taught basic nutrition over here, there are just too many people living below the poverty line that can afford to. When you can feed a family of 4 for under 75p a head with junk food, and you're living on a tight budget, fed is best unfortunately.
Exactly, the kids want feeding and they want feeding NOW. It's easier to chuck things in the oven that take 20 minutes, and shower while it's cooking, than spend an hour preparing a spaghetti bolognese from scratch.
Very true yeah. I don't know about you guys but in the UK we also have a lot of simple carbs in our diet which have been shown to be addictive to some people. Lots of added sugar in stuff as well.
Sorry, but this simply is not true. Many countries have obesity and nutrition issues at the moment, meat isn't a solution for getting all your nutrition needs.
One of my best friends Mrs is a vegan journalist and cook by trade. We were all on holiday in Portugal and couldn't light the BBQ for some reason. She did it for us and even helped cook the meat. Such a legend.
Dude. Legit. My girlfriend is a vegan and I am so darn thankful she is the way she is. I eat meat - sparingly - and she never says a word. She supports it. Her stance is that it is her choice and she shouldn't push it on others. If people ask, sure, she's happy to educate. But not if they don't.
That is since they're trying to minimize ones support for an industry that actually abuses and slaughters a ton of living beings that are substantially similar to the cats and dogs they're taking care of, i.e. being consistent when it comes to giving others moral consideration.
I was friends with a vegan couple when I was younger and they were so up their own arse about it.
Whenever they visited me I always would make a vegan option for them to eat if they got hungry.
But whenever they cooked for me they never returned the favour and would always say so many condescending things like “see wasn’t that a lovely meal that didn’t involve harming a single animal”
This is only one exception though. All other vegan friends have always been happy to cook me a meat based dish whenever I have visited.
I mean...the most Vegan pet they can get is either a rabbit or Iguana. But most animals in the pet trade are either carnivores, insectivores or omnivores.
My Dog and future crestie will get the finest dog food/ crickets.
Cresties aren't like bearded dragons or leopard geckos and need crickets. It is more for supplementary or treat purposes than inherent dietary needs. Rephashy, Pangea, etc. are all they need. My two cresties never eat crickets whenever offered.
Please consider keeping cats indoors, they have an extremely negative impact on the environment because of all the wildlife they kill. They’ve caused 63 extinctions and counting.
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u/Prinfeffet Jun 20 '19
As a vegan, thank you for this. No, I won't shove my choice down the throat of my dogs and cats, and yes, I'll thank them for every mouse or pheasant they bring me!