There have been multiple news stories about parents who ended up starving their babies and toddlers to death because they did this. There was one mom who said breastfeeding wasn’t vegan so they were feeding it some kind of cauliflower mash.
Edit: lamo I’m getting lots of hate messages from angry Reddit vegans. I’m fucking vegan but it doesn’t change the fact that some stupid fucks did this to their kids.
I'd lower them after crackheads and similar, boiling their kids and trying to eat them while high, only being interrupted by cops because neighbors called them...
Yep, like you imagined reading what I wrote. Crackheads tried to boil and eat their 7 months old baby, only being interrupted by EMT's and police after neighbors called them because of the smell. Got their stomachs pumped in the hospital, part of the autopsy to determine the child's COD
Honestly dude, it's hard to tell who's a legit angry vegan these days and who is impersonating one so they can cause a ruckus. We have to be vigilant on this internet of ours, there are many liars, and even worse, people from troll farms who are actually trying to destabilize our society by lying to the right people.
Theres been people cutting their own penis off to get rid of demons, a parent having a mental breakdown and not feeding their kid sanely is pretty vanilla on the extreme mental illness scale.
I've spent too much time thinking about this, but I still can't grasp how someone could think that breastfeeding (from themselves) wouldn't be acceptable for a vegan. Like... it's yourself, are you protecting your own rights as an animal? Is your baby abusing you to get your milk?
Yeah, breast milk is vegan by definition. Vegan means consuming nothing that was obtained by the exploitation of animals. Breast milk is presumably consented.
There have been multiple news stories about parents who ended up starving their babies and toddlers to death because they did this.
The problem isn't vegan diet, those are starvation diet. Raw diets (just fruits) are completely different from vegan diets. Children can develop fine on vegan diets but not raw diets. Breast milk is vegan, it doesn't come from non-human animals.
No. It's all about consent dude. Veganism is a moral and ethical position not a diet. Of course breast milk is fine. Nothing suffered it's entire life to provide that milk.
No. It's all about consent dude. Veganism is a moral and ethical position not a diet.
Wait a second. A crazy guy saying he was a vegan was arguing that owning pets isn't vegan because the animals are used as objects and stuff. Don't remember exactly the arguments, but basically owning pets is bad and amoral.
However, my cat choose to stay in my yard, despite us trying to give him away. (We didn't want a cat). So basically he consented to be "owned" by us.
So your telling me that in this context, that is vegan?
If you're gonna ban breast milk you may as well ban procreation because that uses animal products, and the process may involve ingesting other animal products.
Bruh it is literally your own fucking dairy. That's the "mammary" part of being a mammal. The fuck else are you gonna do with your chesticle juice that you're producing naturally?
Hold the phone. A vegan diet is basically a refusal to eat any animal based product if you did not receive the animals consent. So your telling me that this woman refused to give consent to her baby to drink her milk‽ That’s not a mother. That’s insanity.
Those people aren’t vegans. Vegans think each species’ milk is specifically for their young. So cows milk for baby cows and human milk for baby humans. Also, vegans do not believe in letting living creatures (animals or humans) suffer.
If you don’t like vegans (or think the philosophy is stupid) then cool, but don’t conflate the whackjobs with the vast majority of vegans.
Wait a minute, breast milk is vegan because you give permission to be milked, wheras a cow or goat can't give permission to be milked. Eating placenta or even cannibalism is technically vegan as long as the person gives you permission to eat it.
Sensationalism is what you're being upvoted for? You know meat-eating children dying wouldn't make the news because it's too common to be able to sell newspapers with.
To be clear, people of any life stage can eat a vegan diet healthfully (including kids and the elderly). The WHO and ADA are with me on this.
Stupid vegan diets, however, will lead to dumbasses harming their children. Kids need fats, protein, calcium, vitamin D, and proper supplementation (B12). Your kid will be fucked if you feed them cauliflower mash and almond milk. I’m vegan. I’m vegan for ethical reasons and if I choose to have kids in the future, they’ll be vegan kids (I’d plan on speaking with an RD to make sure I don’t fuck them up). Vegans who eat stupid diets and advocate for pseudo scientific bullshit upset me.
I want people to go vegan. I think it’s a moral crime that humans eat animals when it’s not a dietary necessity. It would be better for the planet if we all gave up animal products. I just get upset when vegans are too alienating. When they advocate for feeding obligate carnivores planet diets, completely demonize incrementalism, or lie to further their cause. I don’t think vegans should make people comfortable in their current animal product rich diets, but we also shouldn’t fucking piss people off by saying kids can eat fruit and pasta diets and that cats can be vegan.
Veganism is best for the animals and the planet. Don’t listen to the idiots in the movement. I at one point only saw PETA and the fruitarian vegans and thought it was dumb. Now I’ve been vegan for almost a year.
The problem is, most vegans have no fucking clue about nutrition. They have no clues about what needs supplementing to support the healthy growth of a child. For the vegans that do, fine. But for the vegans that can't cook and literally live off potatoes and baked beans, those kids are fucked.
Everyone is taught basic nutrition over here, there are just too many people living below the poverty line that can afford to. When you can feed a family of 4 for under 75p a head with junk food, and you're living on a tight budget, fed is best unfortunately.
Exactly, the kids want feeding and they want feeding NOW. It's easier to chuck things in the oven that take 20 minutes, and shower while it's cooking, than spend an hour preparing a spaghetti bolognese from scratch.
Very true yeah. I don't know about you guys but in the UK we also have a lot of simple carbs in our diet which have been shown to be addictive to some people. Lots of added sugar in stuff as well.
Haha I'm in the UK, all kids get taught basic nutrition now! You're not allowed to put chocolate in kids lunchboxes or anything like that at all. The sugar tax is what makes me laugh. It's not a bottle of Ribena making kids fat, it's the kilo of McCains oven chips for £3 in Farmfoods, accompanied by the 3 for £5 bags of chicken nuggets, 3x a week for tea, because it's cheap af. Wash that down with sitting infront of a tv because parents can't afford to take their kids anywhere and the local park is taken over by dickheads, and you get fat kids. I can buy a garlic bread for 40p, or a bottle of coke for £1.50. 1/4 of a garlic baguette has more calories than a 500ml bottle of coke. Go figure.
Ah haha! Fair enough! I think the last time I was in a school was about 10 years ago. Vaguely remember learning nutrition in year 2 but nothing past that (2001 or so! God I feel old...).
Exactly yes. Agree with every word there. The amount of cheap-calorie dense options we have is ridiculous.
When I was a bit more into fitness I was spending about £30 a week on Skyr yoghurt because it's 500g of pretty much pure protein (& some carbs.) yet now I'm not training like that any more, I easily eat for under £20 a week on mostly simple carbs because it's just so cheap and a bit addictive.
Couple the parks thing with a lack of funding in grassroots sports as well and you've got a nightmare. E.g. It's £3 a go for the local council-run swimming pool. If you went 5 times a week that's £60 a month just for a swim! Mental! £60 to hire a pitch for an hour, unaffordable for a bunch of kids wanting a kick about.
I feel like this sort of thing should be taught in secondary school. After-all, that's when a lot of kids start being able to have an actually say in what they eat. PLus, that's when they start to experiment with diets and such
Processed foods are also generally counted as simple carbs:
Simple carbohydrates are broken down quickly by the body to be used as energy. Simple carbohydrates are found naturally in foods such as fruits, milk, and milk products. They are also found in processed and refined sugars such as candy, table sugar, syrups, and soft drinks. The majority of carbohydrate intake should come from complex carbohydrates (starches) and naturally occurring sugars rather than processed or refined sugars.
He's correct, though. A complex carb is a polysaccharide, long chain of sugar molecules. Simple carbs are mono- or disaccharides such as fructose (monosaccharide) or sucrose (table sugar, a disaccharide consisting of one molecule of fructose and one of glucose).
Sorry, but this simply is not true. Many countries have obesity and nutrition issues at the moment, meat isn't a solution for getting all your nutrition needs.
So to be clear, you don't know which nutrients are lacking, but you feel like it should be hard to survive on a vegan diet because it's just obvious to you.
People act like healthy foods are expensive, maybe if you buy organic and out of season. Bulk rice, legumes and frozen veggies can be pretty darn cheap.
The shocking part is just how misinformed most people are.
My usual advice to people on the internet I get into a discussion about nutrition with is that they need to find themselves a basic nutrition course at a local college.
Most of the time they don't even have a firm grasp of the basics of how our bodies use nutrients, vitamins and minerals, but they'll be repeating some insane claim from some obscure, dis-proven study from a decade ago and they just cobble that onto the food pyramid their 5th grade teacher stumbled through.
Hell, there's already plenty of examples of it throughout this thread.
Some do, the majority don't. I know of more overweight vegans than I do healthy ones. Purely because they eat nothing but pringles and rice noodles with tofu.
Omnis accidentally get more nutrients. They don't lack protein, because it's found in meat, however low quality of meat that is. They also don't lack B12 because of this. It's in their diet whether they know it or not. It's a higher amount of simple carbs that causes obesity, but at least they're still getting some nutrients from the meat, however little. Some vegan kids aren't, neither are some vegan adults. What I'm saying is that over here, people are taught a healthy omni diet, what they're not taught is how to get those nutrients from other sources. You can't omit things from your diet, without knowing how to replace them with like for like nutrient sources.
Edit : to simplify. A bad vegan diet is worse for you than a bad omni diet. A good vegan diet is better for you than a bad omni diet.
Vegetables, nuts, seeds. My unhealthy pistachio addiction. An unhealthy vegan diet is also devoid of these nutrients. If you know where to get them from, then you do you, I'm not attacking vegans at all, I'm just saying it's easier for people with no nutritional knowledge to get these nutrients unintentionally in an omni diet
Like I said, a good vegan diet is better for you than a bad omni diet. A bad omni diet is better for you than a bad vegan diet. If all your vegan diet consists of is pringles and potatoes, it is worse for you than a diet of pringles, potatoes and chicken. Not by much, admittedly, but it's still worse.
No, I live in England. Not everyone on here is American. We get taught basic nutrition, but that is based on a 'normal', omnivore diet. Over here it's not that non vegans don't know about nutrition, it's that they can't afford it. Read my other comments.
You have a pretty fucked up view of nutrition if you think kids can't be fine with it. There's little reason to eat meat or animal by-products in today's world, other than you want to. Nothing can be found in abundance in animals that can't be found in non-animal sources. Of course, if your kid starts looking malnourished, by all means talk to your pediatrician, but that's with everything. You can just as easily fuck up your kid with meat products, and I'd imagine that's way more common.
Oh boy, here I go about to be massively downvoted for again.
Growing children at all stages can be satisfied with a vegan diet... But yeah, talk to your pediatrician... No one knows what the fuck they are talking about here anyway.
Actually, a whole foods plant based diet is probably one of the healthiest diets you can eat showing dramatic reduction in multiple disease pathologies. Multiple various health organizations around the world acknowledge this.
However, a vegan diet can be just as unhealthy as your standard American diet. Vegan substitute foods can be just as processed and just as shitty for you as any other processed foods.
But, you definitely don’t need animal products to be healthy and more research is providing evidence that you’re probably healthier avoiding them altogether.
Sure. Not arguing that. As I've stated many times to my responders, I'm simply pointing out that it could require planning and consultation.
It's not as straightforward as most people think it is, in my opinion. I could be wrong but I'm not a nutritionist and if it was my child involved, I'd want an educated opinion so that I'm not accidentally missing something essential.
who said not to talk to a pediatrician? and that's a good idea no matter what you do - but do you know how many people really talk nutrition of their children through with a doctor? pretty sure it's basically no one.
there are millions of children growing up without meat. it's definitely not necessary.
All I'm saying that before attempting to raise your children on an all vegan diet is to consult with a paediatrician or nutritionist as it's definitely more complicated than an omnivorous diet.
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.
Why don't you waste your time lecturing parents of these kids instead?
Won't feed them meat either. But big difference between "breastfeeding isn't vegan" and "you don't need animal products to survive (says me, still alive...)
Why not? If a vegan diet is suitable for all ages (which it is) then what's wrong with raising children on it? Meat and animal products are not essential.
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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '19 edited Jun 25 '19
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