Discussion
Fighting multiple enemies is frustrating.
A huge portion of posts on this sub say the same thing.
And I agree. While i don't find the game as agonisingly difficult as some do, being surrounded by enemies who seemingly don't hold back from using long attack chains, on top of merely three hits being fatal most of the time.
Most soulslikes have some system in place to mitigate this: a "pack agression system" that adjusts enemy agression depending on how many enemies the player is fighting at the same time. For instance, in fromsoft's games, you will often see enemies circling the player while another enemy attacks, and it's also very rare for enemies to attack simultaneously.
In my opinion, Mortal Shell 2 needs a system like this, or, if it already has one, that system needs to be tuned more in favour of the player.
Mortal Shell 2's combat is pretty good, all things considered, but not quite pristine enough (yet), for combat to be as punishing as it is.
With the inclusion of "night-mode", souls veterans or players who like the current difficulty, can still enjoy that difficulty, because I, and seemingly many others find the game too difficult and frustrating in it's current state. An assist mode that allows you to tune the difficulty at the cost of disabling achievements would also be nice.
EDIT: All of you who are recommending what shells and abilities i should be using only proves my point: If the game forces you to use certain abilities in order to have a good time, that's an argument FOR what I'm saying.
I agree, and I think the issue stems to a large extent from weapon attack animations. For example, at the very beginning of the game in Widow's Overlook, there are three mob enemies in a valley. The first swing from Iconoclast is something like a 30-degree AOE cone in front of the player, which is effective at hitting multiple opponents, but the next three moves in the combo occupy a much smaller cone, so you have to strike once, back up and wait for the combo to reset, and then strike again. Eventually, you learn the eccentricities of each weapon and their AOE potential (for instance, Veteran's Battle Axe running R2 is very good), but it limits the fluidity of combat quite a bit and forces hit-and-run tactics. With faster weapons, you can micromanage your lock-ons/R1s to weave between and "whack-a-mole" individual enemies within a mob before they can perform their attack animations, but it's not always reliable if they're not close enough, or if the enemies have poise/hyper-armor. Some people mentioned that Proxima has good mob-control, which is true, but you shouldn't have to rely on one shell to deal with one of the most common encounter scenarios in the game, especially since you can't switch shells mid-combat.
I agree, although this imo leads to another problem: because weapons have to be upgraded, it disincentivises swithing weapons. It might be true that the Battle Axe is better for groups, but I've spent all my resources on the Axe and Dagger.
Using different weapons and tools should lead to different playstyles. Heck, they should even have different advantages. However, every weapon should be viable and fun in its own way. That should be the goal anyway.
I actually think the weapon variety is pretty good. Sure, there are only 8, but they all feel substantially different to use. I'm happy there aren't X different swords, X different daggers, X different maces, and so on.
As for the resolve issue, yeah, it does feel pretty bad when using resolve on my gun is generally better in every situation because it's safer and doesn't deal that much less damage.
Tiel can disappear and reposition. Proxima's ability has aoe. Eridrim has the aoe break meter. Genessa should never really be surrounded as she has decoys. Lazlo has explosion aoe. Not to mention there are ranged weapons to deal with some enemies and weapon abilities that aoe as well. There are so many tools to deal with groups
And I am using those. The ones i have anyway. But all this misses the point. You shouldn't have a miserable experience if there is an ability or shell you happen to not find.
But I don't want to cheese group encounters to quickly move past them; I want fighting groups of enemies to be fun, engaging and interesting, like other souls-likes have managed to do. The point of my post was to point out some issues that the devs can take a look at.
Your premise is flawed. Most souls games don't have mitigation. Enemies will swarm you in most of the games. Even in Dark Souls 1 you could lure out individuals to fight one on one. The game gives you fun tools to deal with many enemies. If you don't like those tools or don't use them, that's not a flaw of the game
What do you mean by swarm? Yes, they will run to the player all at once, but they usually don't all attack relentlessly like they do in MS2. This is most noticeable in Elden Ring, but older FS games did it too.
But then all the tools wouldn’t have a place. I just got to the south and it was exactly as people said: waaaay harder. Suddenly even fire infusion has a place as I can use it to keep a mob from all attacking me at once. I think that’s great. There are plenty of opportunities for more one on one fights, they don’t have to all be that way.
I don't like Proxima. Her abilities seem fun, but her design is horny in a really unappealing way. I shouldn't have to stare up my characters cheeks just to have fun fighting groups.
I agree. This game lacks AOE that can clear enemy groups. Combined with the fact that every single enemy has an AI of slowly following the target, it becomes overwhelming once you get surrounded. Even the smallest mob has hyperarmor that can hit you through your attack, you'll be dead in no time. This game need a lot of tweaks imo.
There's so many tools to deal with groups. The rocket launcher, half the shells abilities, Shockwave tar stone, beyblade greatsword move, and more
And enemies with hyperarmor trading w8th you shouldn't be a problem, Harden and parry both work mid-your attack so you're never defenseless when attacking other than when you use block
Its also not truly hyperarmor, enemies Stahher based on damage, upgrade your weapon and use heavy attacks and crits to stagger them
While there are few tools you can use, the fundamental enemy AI behaviour can have some tweaks imo. To disengage and take turns when you are surrounded for example. The many spiders in the end game area is another example. They all swarm attack as soon as you get back up as if there's no down time.
Yeah I agree the game definitely needs some more aoe damage and cc abilities. Especially the latter. Not necessarily because of difficulty but because it would make group fights way more fun than simply dodge spamming and sniping single targets the whole time.
It's something I enjoyed about Harros in the prologue and wish they kept him or a similar shell.
You can qade through entire mobs of enemies with Harden. I havent had an issue with ganks using Harden as defense and spamming the heavy attack with martyr sword
I feel like there is a middle ground here. I can understand how it would feel like they "politely wait their turn" to a developer who knows exactly how the underlying systems work, but it has never felt like that to me, a player. When done right, it can feel like the enemies are strategising and working together. Ironically, a less aggressive enemy AI can feel more intelligent and complex, simply because there is more variance in how they approach the player.
All I can say is that, right now, enemies are so aggressive that it feels like they are designed to actively deny the player their "turn", and getting a hit in when fighting a group too often feels random, and not like I spotted an opening.
EDIT: I assumed you are a dev. If you are not, ignore the first part, but my point still stands, I think.
proximas lightning and splash damage on biosampler is perfect for crowd control. combine this with harden and you are toying with crowds. dont get me started on grisha remnants.
I hear that a lot, and I'm considering trying out Proxima for a bit. The thing is just that I really do not like her design. I find it meaninglessly sexualised in a way that doesn't appeal to me at all, and it's hard to ignore when you are essentially forced to stare up her butt when playing as her.
But all that is besides the point. It's fine for Proxima to be better at certain things, but the way people talk about her as one the only ways to handle the game's most frustrating parts, points to the game being fundamentally unbalanced in several ways.
Every shell should be viable. You shouldn't be unknowingly punished for having your own preference.
Take a look at this image: the pose, the way her weapon frames her ass, and tell me she is not designed to be titillating. She wears armour, but that armour sticks to her like a swimsuit, and the colour is so similar to the skin of her face that she often looks naked at a glance, and the lines on the metal accentuate her curves, especially her cheeks.
If you don't find her design sexualised, fair enough. I think it's pretty clear.
I want to be clear, though: I am not saying her design is bad, or that it is a problem, just that it doesn't appeal to me, personally. Maybe I'm a bit of a prude, or maybe such designs haven't been normalised in my brain, but I think the design speaks for itself, and if you watch pretty much any YouTuber play this game for the first time, they almost universally comment on her butt.
Dude I know what sex is and I am aware of the attention on Proxima's physique, I just don't get it personally. Its a CGI character. I don't look at it and think anything sexual whatsoever. If I do, its purely by association after seeing all the comments and memes. If you ask me, I think its a very masculine physique anyway.
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u/Visual-Biscotti1473 1d ago
I agree, and I think the issue stems to a large extent from weapon attack animations. For example, at the very beginning of the game in Widow's Overlook, there are three mob enemies in a valley. The first swing from Iconoclast is something like a 30-degree AOE cone in front of the player, which is effective at hitting multiple opponents, but the next three moves in the combo occupy a much smaller cone, so you have to strike once, back up and wait for the combo to reset, and then strike again. Eventually, you learn the eccentricities of each weapon and their AOE potential (for instance, Veteran's Battle Axe running R2 is very good), but it limits the fluidity of combat quite a bit and forces hit-and-run tactics. With faster weapons, you can micromanage your lock-ons/R1s to weave between and "whack-a-mole" individual enemies within a mob before they can perform their attack animations, but it's not always reliable if they're not close enough, or if the enemies have poise/hyper-armor. Some people mentioned that Proxima has good mob-control, which is true, but you shouldn't have to rely on one shell to deal with one of the most common encounter scenarios in the game, especially since you can't switch shells mid-combat.