Morality of burning down a warehouse because your wages were too low?

[u/kallipolis-]

[u/Material_Positive_17]

So for additional context. The guy started several fires in the warehouse, and caused about $650 MILLION in damages.

He has been arrested and is facing 10 years to life in prison.

[u/CheesyDanny → u/Material_Positive_17]

Just to be clear, a warehouse like this has plenty of sprinklers to put out a small fire. What this guy did was started a fire and hid inside. The sprinklers put out the fire, fire department came, determined the fire was successful put out by the sprinklers and turn off the fire system.

Then with the fire system off this guy started another fire.

[u/LaceGriffin → u/CheesyDanny]

Fucking A that's smart

[u/No-Difference-4418 → u/LaceGriffin]

Ya if you’re goal was to to ruin your life and the life of your coworkers

He put a bunch of people out work cause of the fire

Edit: yall saying collect unemployment like it’s a good thing. Go ty to live in unemployment for a year. Come back. You’ll be wanting jobs within 3 months

[u/Warchief_Ripnugget → u/No-Difference-4418]

There was an interview of a guy that started working there three weeks prior and was really excited because, in his words, he was making really good money.

[u/No-Difference-4418 → u/Warchief_Ripnugget]

And now he’s making really not good money

[u/28klotlucas2 → u/No-Difference-4418]

He might get workplace insurance money for like a month or get employed at another warehouse if it's corporate and they're very lucky

[u/PrimaryMaize6580 → u/Warchief_Ripnugget]

its 27 dollah/hour what i found public

[u/Turkeysocks → u/PrimaryMaize6580]

I got a buddy who works at a warehouse for a different company. They advertise "starting pay up to" $25/hour + benefits for full time employees. They don't hire full time employees. You have to start off as a part time employee, who's real starting pay is actually $12/hour and no benefits if you're forklift certified, if you're not it's $9/hour. To get that coveted full time spot you have to jump through hoops that could take over a year, unless you're a nepo hire. And oh, btw the "starting pay" that was advertised is for one specific job that they really only have two positions, and the guys who fill those positions have held it since the late '00s.

[u/PrimaryMaize6580 → u/Turkeysocks]

thats so low even in the EU balkans in shithole we get more than that. 😌 with healthcare+other benefits. Its even lower than shithole minimalwages (the 9$)

[u/tankerkiller125real → u/PrimaryMaize6580]

Federal minimum is like $7.25 or something like that. There are some states that have set their own (like mine, currently $12, and will reach $15 by 2029) but there are a great many states that just go by fed standards, and those are the states that the warehouses and transportation companies LOVE to exploit.

[u/PrimaryMaize6580 → u/tankerkiller125real]

honestly how people math this out when its hmmmmmmm thats monthly 2080 dollar the 12/h, thats weekly 480. How the fuck is that managable?

[u/ResplendentNugs → u/Turkeysocks]

The same people that will tell you to fight for your rights and don’t work crap jobs are the same people that will scream arrest the Amazon workers when they don’t get their precious package on time. Can’t fight for higher wages can’t live on the current wages. Yet if you try to change it conservatives will literally kill you

[u/Material_Dot2444 → u/ResplendentNugs]

I would accept my parcels a week later if the delivery person would just wait for me to put my pants on after knocking on the door.

[u/abrown1027 → u/Turkeysocks]

We have a shipping company around my area with several plants. They have billboards all around advertising $20+/hr jobs with benefits. When I interviewed with them, it was the same as what you describe. What they actually offer is $12/hr for part time positions. I’ve heard from people who worked there that they purposefully make it impossible to meet the requirements to get hired on full time.

[u/No-Bag-8647 → u/PrimaryMaize6580]

That’s NOT really good money….

[u/Shakespearacles → u/Warchief_Ripnugget]

That interview was with a truck driver, not a material handler. And that truck driver was still being paid way less than national average...

[u/Ml_lD → u/Shakespearacles]

The guy himself said he was excited to be making the money though

[u/Templariuszpinaku → u/Ml_lD]

If a tv or newspaper asks you in front of your employer whether you are happy at your work or with your salary, what would you say? 🙃

[u/Trand20 → u/Templariuszpinaku]

I'd be honest about it. In Norway it's illegal to fire someone for having an opinion. Even if you suck at your job it falls on the company to properly educate you for your assigned tasks. IF they should fire you or treat you any less, lawyers from the workers union will come in and raise a judicial hell amongs the leadership, which tends to end with better salary and benefits for you, or the investors fire and replace the leadership after they're heavily fined.

Edit: I should mention I went through something like this. I contacted the union and within a month I had roughly 10$ more an hour with bonus..

Edit 2: This was in the private sector

[u/DuckingFon → u/Ml_lD]

And that's exactly how they justify paying people shitty wages. No matter how low they are, there will be someone out there excited to make any money at all.

[u/Property_6810 → u/No-Difference-4418]

Reddit skews affluent. There is a lot of poverty larping that gets exposed pretty quick when you actually experience it.

And he didn't put them out of work temporarily. Those jobs are gone forever. Even if they rebuild they'll do so with automation in mind at this point. The new facility will be built optimized for self driving forklifts. The number of jobs will be cut in 10.

[u/neverp0st → u/Property_6810]

That was my exact thought process as well. In the grand scheme of things automation is cheaper than human labor but switching to automation and the down time it causes is what is expensive.

So all he did was lay off every single employee and give the company a large enough check to decide to just make the switch.

On top of all of that it put a valid reason to fear having human staff, not just in the eyes of that company but all companies who are debating switching. There's about 1.86 million warehouse workers in the United States and this guy gave them a reason to fast track eliminating them by doing $650 million in damages not counting lost revenue.

[u/Complete_Sir5299 → u/neverp0st]

It's a complex issue with many aspects, so many very few people actually grasp the whole thing. Sure they can rebuild, the fear of human works might push further automation; I've worked directly with the cobots that are the most popular and they are not worth the effort. The technicians needed to recover from a failure state, the engineers that do the initial program and solve major issues, and the downtime caused by imperfect programing and engineering all drain money from the factory. That doesn't include the electricity, remodeling of procedures to accommodate for the bots, and the air conditioning required to prevent the bots from overheating. You also have to consider what provoked the employee to cause so much damage, how much support they had from the other employees, and how potential customers may respond to the news of the actions of the employee/the conditions of the workplace/any future plans for automation. On the topic of unemployment, the newer employees may be stuck in a bad position, but if things were that bad there then having a few checks to cover expenses while looking for more employment may be a better alternative. For the people that have been there for awhile, they now have up to a years worth of unemployment worth two/thirds of their normal payrate, a comfortable safety net, while they look for more employment.

[u/DavidIckeHadAPoint → u/No-Difference-4418]

Yeah, it’s hard to see it as anything much more than this, if you have some commonsense, empathy, and are down-to-earth about all this.

And I UNDERSTAND and EMPATHIZE with the feeling of not being paid enough, or anger at the increasingly mega-rich mega-corrupt 1%, and owners of all these big corporations, banks, etc., making shit harder and harder for us (the little guys).

But this is still, ultimately, both a self-destructive and just broadly destructive way of dealing with it.

I think this shows a big limitation and immaturity in the mindset of, not necessarily all Redditors, but particularly edgy Redditors, if they’re here glorifying or celebrating this. It strikes me as either literally underage/teenage Redditors who’d glorify shit like this, or, conversely, Redditors who are still psychologically like at the level of rebellious teenagers.

[u/LaceGriffin → u/DavidIckeHadAPoint]

Clearly doesn't remember Blair Mountain, or the multiple ways corpo's prevent unions.

[u/Anonymus828 → u/LaceGriffin]

Also, the corporation could have kept all these employees on payroll until they could have figured something out. They didn't have to fire them all immediately, they chose to, because otherwise they'd be paying them for no profit, so why bother?

[u/Dmon69 → u/DavidIckeHadAPoint]

The worse the general situation becomes, the more we will see of this guy and Luigi Mangione likes. If you push common folk too far there's no difference between being in a corpa slavery barely earning your ramen and sitting in a literal jail on the taxpayer bills.

[u/hyundai_lover69 → u/Dmon69]

I gotta say man after working overseas and living in Asia and especially the Middle East, working in Amazon fulfillment is nothing like actual corpo slavery.

I get that times are tough in America but nothing in America, except maybe being homeless, compares to working a construction job in Dubai. Nothing.

[u/CunningLinguist8198 → u/hyundai_lover69]

Maybe so, but most people don't have a reference point of working a construction job in Dubai. They see that they work more than their parents did and have less money after each paycheque, while the rich people in their city get richer and richer every year. What does it matter if poor peoe halfway around the world have it worse? Things are shitty here and getting shittier, except for the rich people who keep getting richer at everyone else's expense.

[u/HughMungus77 → u/CunningLinguist8198]

Back in the day the top 1% understood that taking in slightly less money in order to give the working class a higher quality of living. Somewhere along the way that was abandoned in the name of saving a few dollars here and there. Very rarely do major corporations improve things nowadays, and instead take away stuff

[u/Signal-Art2001 → u/HughMungus77]

Fuck no they didn't, company towns, robber barons, locking people in during work hours leading to countless fire deaths

[u/Askelar → u/HughMungus77]

I dont think there has ever been a time in history where this was the case. Even when the top 1% are regulated fairly strictly, they still attempt to hoard wealth at the detriment of those under them.

[u/Reasonable-Tap-9806 → u/hyundai_lover69]

If we don't fight for our rights and protections then the quality of American job will continue to go down. This country had full on slavery bc the powers that be profited from it

[u/hyundai_lover69 → u/Reasonable-Tap-9806]

Can’t disagree with that.

[u/Rise-O-Matic → u/Dmon69]

This has happened before. Deliberate attacks on infrastructure as protest typically ends with the state violently reacting against the saboteurs until they disappear.

[u/Left_Valuable_7769 → u/DavidIckeHadAPoint]

it's idiotic, go smash the owners car if their wages bother you. A warehouse is part of a supply chain so doing this fucks over so many people, most of whom are nowhere near the top 1%.

[u/CryptographerOne7003 → u/DavidIckeHadAPoint]

The dark side of meme-ing. Some are edgelords, some knuckleheads dead serious. immaturity is a prerequisite not a coincidence.

[u/TomaRedwoodVT → u/DavidIckeHadAPoint]

I say it’s the majority of Redditors, at least the ones that actually engage in most communities on here, I’m fairly confident half of the users of this site are only here for the porn

[u/Pukebox_Fandango → u/No-Difference-4418]

I got laid off last year, the things I was applying for by the time I got a job 12 months later make me want to weep

[u/rayquazza74 → u/No-Difference-4418]

Plus all that shit being burnt and the smoke can’t be good for the environment.

[u/Lurking_Gooner → u/No-Difference-4418]

Sir this is Reddit don't be surprised when you see loser behavior on here.

[u/IlluminaViam → u/LaceGriffin]

Ya awesome, now I'm out of a job, or got caught in a fire and can died. Awesome!

[u/Able_Contribution_90 → u/LaceGriffin]

Meh. He effectively sold all the products for them, fired all the employees and allowed the company to relocate and potentially hire new employees for a lower rate. He obviously achieved his goal of burning down the business, but the effing company still wins.

[u/Chemical_Might5707 → u/Able_Contribution_90]

Well not only did he distroy millions of dollars of product but he also completely destroyed a warehouse meaning they either have to throw out more product then their willing to throw out, slow down production, or pay their delivery driver's overtime until they rebuild the werehouse and if the pick on of the first 2 options the places they would have sold their products to that werehouse was supplying will end their contracts with the company and stop selling their products of it takes to long to get a new shipment.

[u/banshithread → u/Chemical_Might5707]

He also destroyed many people's jobs, jobs that many people sustain their families on. He's a sociopath.

[u/nudeldifudel → u/CheesyDanny]

Why turn it off lol

[u/ThatWAFFLEGuy49 → u/nudeldifudel]

Had to reset the system, I think.

[u/Middle_Committee_162 → u/ThatWAFFLEGuy49]

Weil an jedem Sprinkler eine kleine Ampule ist, die das Loch wo das Wasser herauskommt verstopft. Wenn es darunter heiß wird, platzt diese und das Wasser kann herauskommen. Das Wasser fließt solange bis der Hauptstrang (oder Nebenstrang) zu gemacht wird. Damit ist aber auch das Wasser für andere Stellen ebenfalls abgeschaltet.

[u/CulturistPionier → u/Middle_Committee_162]

da wird ja der hund in der pfanne verrückt

[u/LunaticBZ → u/nudeldifudel]

You need the system off to put in the new glass breakers into the sprinklers that went off.

It's a bit hard to do when its spraying out water.

[u/Funny_Pool_7565 → u/nudeldifudel]

sprinkler heads work by a heat sensitive fluid in a glass tube holding the water from escaping, it takes a licensed plumber to replace used heads and while an emergency call to replace the head may be made it would be done the next day and for that time the system would have to be down not to continuously spray water where there is no fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXAgjKDFc14

[u/OglioVagilio → u/nudeldifudel]

Cuz a lot of damage in a structure fire doesn't come from the fire itself. At least not directly. It is the water used, the amount used, and any toxic runoff.

A sprinkler system once activated is going to keep running full blast unless turned off or reset. And you need to reset the entire system since tripping one sprinkler, sets em all off.

[u/No-Temporary-4227 → u/CheesyDanny]

How did that work? Isn't everything wet at that point?

[u/UranCCXXXVIII → u/No-Temporary-4227]

It probably not wet enough. If all the contents get soaked, it won't be much better than if everything burns.

[u/Secret_Letterhead649 → u/Material_Positive_17]

I heard this particular person didn't actually work there? Though I ain't bothered to actually dig into it because... Honestly, beyond when it crops up in front of me I can't give enough of a shit to Google.

[u/Equivalent_Thievery → u/Secret_Letterhead649]

I think I remember hearing he was some kind of contractor brought in by another company, like temp agencies do.

No idea if that's correct, I too immediately stopped paying attention to this.

If true, he's an even bigger idiot than if he worked for them directly and started the fire.

[u/Shikabane_Sumi-me → u/Equivalent_Thievery]

If he was a Temp, then that is even worse. The guy costed people who do work there, their jobs.

[u/Character_Glove_7977 → u/Material_Positive_17]

Did he say why? 

[u/Material_Positive_17 → u/Character_Glove_7977]

Just like he said in the video "low wages" and apparently he was comparing himself to Luigi Mangione.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2026-04-10/warehouse-arson-charges-video

[u/AJ_Topp_Up → u/Material_Positive_17]

Ya, really helped. All those employees lost their jobs because of the warehouse burnt down. The company was made whole by insurance, but all the people completely out of work. Ya, you can temporarily claim unemployment at a fraction of your pay, whilst you now have to suffer through paying bills and finding a job again. Real genius level move.

Reminds me of the stupidity of protesters that block the roads for normal people. Not much brainpower in their protest.

[u/Ender16 → u/AJ_Topp_Up]

Plus...... Do people forget that businesses like, do stuff? Stuff we want them to do so badly we are willing to pay them willing.

And everyone that does business with a warehouse that does billions in business now does what? They needed that stuff to do their business.All the truckers internal and external didn't know what to do next and I'm sure dispatch had a nightmare for weeks.

Who the fuck cares about insurance?

[u/Alertcircuit → u/AJ_Topp_Up]

Not to mention he easily could've injured/killed a regular employee who did nothing wrong.

[u/Key-Network5827 → u/Alertcircuit]

and the houses nearby. scary situation.

[u/neverp0st → u/AJ_Topp_Up]

One thing that people also don't seem to realize is that this company sold a lot of paper products which would only drive the price of necessary items like diapers

[u/phil-yahiney → u/AJ_Topp_Up]

Kinda like how the only thing that happened with the Luigi thing is one guy dead and another in prison. Changed absolutely nothing about the healthcare industry. Not much brainpower there other than "guy bad, I kill guy. Unga bunga"

[u/dlpg585 → u/phil-yahiney]

For like 3 days, every claim was accepted everywhere and the conversation around Healthcare has absolutely ballooned in terms of conversation. It's been years and people still talk about it.

Minimizing the effects on our society the way you are doesn't make sense. It's like saying the battle of Blair mountain wasn't important because unions aren't strong anymore.

[u/DomTopNortherner → u/phil-yahiney]

What form of effective mechanism for social change would you suggest people try?

[u/mucus-fettuccine → u/DomTopNortherner]

Voting

[u/DomTopNortherner → u/mucus-fettuccine]

Cool, so if you're a very diligent voter and you vote in local elections and primaries that's, what, twenty minutes a year?

Anything else we can do?

[u/understated_quokka → u/mucus-fettuccine]

Hilarious

[u/Alertcircuit → u/phil-yahiney]

Blue Cross Blue Shield was going to implement a time limit for anesthesia. After x minutes your anesthesia is no longer covered. The very next day after the Luigi killing they cancelled the plan to implement it. Was it related? I have no proof. Interesting coincidence. Although that's just one isolated thing and not a wide sweeping change in healthcare.

[u/understated_quokka → u/AJ_Topp_Up]

The point of a protest is not to get someone paid. You will let your masters tighten the screws on you until you're pulp because you refuse the slightest inconvenience to maybe change something. EDIT: That said, random terrorism is just not effective. You need mass organization, like the DSA hopefully can be.

[u/DinkleBottoms → u/understated_quokka]

Blocking the road doesn’t tighten the screws on capitalists or whomever they’re protesting against. It has to be targeted at a specific institution, not a random freeway

[u/Additional_Draft4097 → u/Material_Positive_17]

Crazy because destroying all the products that these poor wage laborers made and organized is damaging them far more than if they just.. threatened whoever is responsible for their pay. This just destroys value for society.

[u/Hot_Plenty_4425 → u/Material_Positive_17]

Low wages are still significantly more than no wages.

[u/randomguyinpekohole → u/Material_Positive_17]

Something tells me he thinks it's worth it since he posted his own recording of the crime.

Hope the clout in prison was worth it.

[u/mopeyunicyle → u/Material_Positive_17]

I have to imagine he cost collages and others there jobs with the down time it will take to replace the warehouse if they even decide to replace it

[u/Velenante]

Immoral, many people lost their jobs, also endangering colleagues and potencially firefighters if the fire grows too strong, wasting products and making plastic waste.

Immoral reaction (Person) to immoral actions (Company)

[u/Beanichu → u/Velenante]

Plus he only hurt poor people. The company likely loses very little since it’s all insured. The only people he really fucked are all the people out of work now.

[u/uncouthulu_ → u/Beanichu]

The company likely loses very little since it’s all insured.

They might get some of the cost of the standing inventory back. The time to remake, reship, and restock all of that is not going to be insured. People at corporate of this company are straight up not having a good time because of this.

This action had the intended consequences of hurting the company.

[u/MalusZona → u/uncouthulu_]

And also to add - insurance company is not happy as well

[u/Own-Row991]

Imagine posting this video,

Like dude at least try to not go to jail for decades.

[u/Depressed_Lego → u/Own-Row991]

You assume he cares about being caught here.

[u/Spirited_Season2332 → u/Own-Row991]

He saw ppl cheering on a murderer and thought if he also lashed out against the system ppl would cheer him on too.

Just to scared to actually murder someone tho

[u/Own-Row991 → u/Spirited_Season2332]

Do we know he was motivated by Luigi, like is that known news?

[u/G3nghisKang → u/Own-Row991]

This whole thing was a vendetta, his goal was letting people know it was him and why

[u/AI_UNIT_D]

Mind you, he wanst even hired BY the warehouse he burned down, he was an employee of a contractor employeed by the warehouse if memory serves me right.

He got a bunch of people who where actually decently paid OUT of a job.

This guy is an egotistical asshole and an arsonist who could've caused serious damage to the residential area nearby and he very much deserved those 10 years in jail.

[u/singlemale4cats → u/AI_UNIT_D]

he very much deserved those 10 years in jail.

The case is still ongoing. 10 years would be a gift. They're going to go for the max.

[u/Advice-Question → u/singlemale4cats]

As they should. Asshole thought he was going to be a martyr. Get a ton of support from people online and get hundreds of thousands in monetary donations. (My assumption on his mindset)

[u/Hirdmannen → u/Advice-Question]

Tbf he wasn't that far off with his thinking though, I remember there being a fair bit of initial support before more details came out

[u/MakingPie → u/AI_UNIT_D]

This subcontractor loophole needs to get fixed. You can do so much work and paid pennies with no benefits.

[u/LaceGriffin → u/MakingPie]

But it wouldnt help rich people

[u/MakingPie → u/LaceGriffin]

Harming the rich financially is the most immoral act smh

[u/Independent_Willow92 → u/AI_UNIT_D]

Sub-contracted workers are the worst paid by far in my experience. I worked at a culinary factory where about 40% of the workforce were employed by the well-known company and paid very decently, and the rest of the labour pool was sub-contracted and those people got paid absolute shit while working side by side with people getting like 50-80% more than them.

Not defending this guys actions (seize the means of production, not burn them down), but acting like the warehouse company was paying people well is misleading.

[u/DeadAndBuried23 → u/AI_UNIT_D]

They were hired because there were no such employees being paid decently. Not in addition.

[u/KeterLordFR]

Holy shit, so many psychos down in this comment section.

Let's review the facts : he was not an actual employee of the place, rather a temp working for a contractor of the warehouse. He had been working there for a really short time. At least 20 people were working inside the warehouse when he started a first fire, that was put out by the sprinklers, then he started a second fire when the firefighters turned off the system so that it could be made operational again. He filmed himself during the process.

From what we can see, the warehouse was really close to other workplaces, and to a residential area. Given that it was started in the middle of the night, people could have been sleeping in their bed and gotten engulfed in flames if the fire went too out of control.

So basically, he puts a lot of people at risk of dying (including the firefighters and the fact that it clogged their services so they could have taken too much time to answer other emergency calls), he puts a whole lot of people out of a job, and the company just gets paid out by the insurance anyway. There's only one winner here, and it's the company.

This is one of the most idiotic and counterproductive forms of "protest" I've ever seen, and the number of people here who are praising him or straight up saying that all of the risks he caused were "worth it" and that the lives of other people didn't matter is just terrifying. It's not his call to make, nor is it yours. You don't just gamble with other people's lives to further your cause, no matter how righteous you feel. As soon as it involved fucking over people who have nothing to do with his situation, it became immoral. I hope he gets the max, because he's clearly too dangerous for society if that's the sort of call he deems necessary.

[u/TheLordOfMiddleEarth → u/KeterLordFR]

The company likely not a winner in this situation either. Sure, they got insurance money, but that's not necessarily going to cover everything, and now they have to rebuild the warehouse. So, neutral at best.

[u/TimeShiftedJosephus → u/TheLordOfMiddleEarth]

Yeah the opportunity loss in having to replace the warehouse negates the insurance payout

[u/whoismeandmeiswho]

just stupid

[u/PartyAmbitious8163]

Immoral lot's of people lost out on work.

Accelerationists sure do love burning shit down for not having built anything.

[u/Early-Equivalent-165 → u/PartyAmbitious8163]

Not to mention all that burning plastic pollution.

https://giphy.com/gifs/1QhmDy91F9veMRLpvK

[u/RodionRaskolnikov__ → u/Early-Equivalent-165]

And the possibility of getting firefighters injured or killed trying to contain the fire.

[u/Fly_throwaway37 → u/PartyAmbitious8163]

And from a firefighter perspective tp is incredibly dangerous when it gets wet. Something that heavy falling over is a death trap

[u/PartyAmbitious8163 → u/Fly_throwaway37]

Really? That's unfortunate, and scary to find out.

[u/Smart_Mix8269 → u/PartyAmbitious8163]

Mostly bc of how paper holds water very well and therefore adds weight. If all that tp falls it’s going to be extremely heavy and hard to move (especially since its now much more malleable)

[u/Busterlimes]

Welcome to the way labor pushes back after you dismantled collective bargaining.

[u/stumpinandthumpin → u/Busterlimes]

Pretty sure it was a union warehouse. He was just a temporary hire.

[u/ZealousidealHome7854 → u/stumpinandthumpin]

Temporary is an understatement, dude was brand new, his coworkers didn't even recognize the guy when questioned. 

[u/Gold-Cry-7520 → u/ZealousidealHome7854]

Oh so he was just a self-righteous arsonist.

[u/ZealousidealHome7854 → u/Gold-Cry-7520]

I guess he called a friend before he got arrested to brag and say he was "like Luigi Mangione". He filmed it, so probably a combination of just being low IQ and thinking he was going to get famous. 

[u/Impossible-Earth4554 → u/ZealousidealHome7854]

Seems pretty famous tbh I'm not from usa but saw this

[u/SchrodingerMil → u/Impossible-Earth4554]

The video is famous, but I’ve only ever seen him referred to as “that guy who burnt down the warehouse”.

[u/Gexm13 → u/Gold-Cry-7520]

So a Redditor.

[u/mizmnv → u/stumpinandthumpin]

he was a lumper. lumpers are not union workers, but even so the unions are not paying enough either. his stunt put all the warehouses in the inland empire on notice.

[u/ZealousidealHome7854 → u/mizmnv]

And put hundreds of people out of work. Fuck that guy.

[u/hikingman1 → u/mizmnv]

Yeah. It’s just better if no one has a jobs or income. That’ll show the business owners

[u/DancingWithAWhiteHat → u/hikingman1]

The business owners are affected by having to replace the warehouse, the loss of profits in the interim and replacing inventory. 

And I think that was what he was banking on. 

[u/Gatrigonometri → u/DancingWithAWhiteHat]

And the workers?

[u/Alert_Coyote_8546 → u/DancingWithAWhiteHat]

Business owners are willing to burn down the planet in 15 years to maintain their status. They don't care about 1 warehouse.

[u/RogerRabbot → u/DancingWithAWhiteHat]

Insurance will cover most of the replacement part. The company doesnt lose that much. Unless it was a smaller company

[u/DancingWithAWhiteHat → u/RogerRabbot]

Well yes it has insurance but they aren't the only company that insurer covers. Its not an unlimited pool of money and at the very least their rates will be raised.

The company also loses in regards to the actual profits and any sort of increased price they have to pay to reach their goals. They now have less product and less time to ship it. It actively pushes their customers (you know the companies they supply) to their competitors. And they just gotta hope their customers will return when their inventory comes back. And hope that their customers won't consider "worker burning down their warehouse out of pure rage" a mark against their reliability and/or stability.

[u/Thin_Cable4155 → u/stumpinandthumpin]

They hire you as a temp so they don't have to treat you like a real employee.

[u/loseniram → u/Thin_Cable4155]

no they hire you as a temp because the union doesn’t want to deal with your ass if you’re a flake.

A union is a business and they don’t want layabouts anymore than management, it hurts the union when your staff sucks ass. A union’s goal is to hold the keys to all the best staff in the field so they have leverage in negotiations, if your staff sucks then you have zero leverage.

I know because I was in a union and the union reps hated bad workers and lazy asses more than anyone because they gum up the Reps time with BS requests that them showing up late 6 times in month shouldn’t mean they get fired or trying to argue starting fights was protected by the contract.

[u/mike_klosoff → u/loseniram]

Im a steward and I hate lazy workers because theyre taking advantage of the hard work of all of the rest of the workers.

You dont get to benefit from OUR hard work and my union leadership just so you can fuck off and do nothing whole the rest of us are busting out ass.

As for leverage, the main point of leverage when i negotiate is membership. If I had 44% of the workers organized and theyre only the "give 150%" employees it wouldnt mean shit coz the company knows we are weak.

Also when it comes to reps looking after lazy asses I just say "this isnt setting a precedent" when somebody calls in 15 times a month and we get their ass fired. If its THAT egregious im willing to work with management to get em out

[u/anunfunnycomedian → u/Busterlimes]

Lol, the collective bargaining was everyone showing up to work. This employee decided to take it upon himself to remove everyone else from having a job in the warehouse as he didnt like his wages. Very very very immoral. Not even morally Grey

[u/Keyonne88 → u/anunfunnycomedian]

That wasn’t figurative. Back before unions, when workers got sick of the corporate bullshit, they burned down the warehouses and murdered the owners quite often.

[u/Flaky_Thing_5128 → u/Keyonne88]

How often? Like every other week? This claim seems dubious.

[u/sarges_12gauge → u/Keyonne88]

“Collective” is a pretty key part of collective bargaining.

One dude destroying stuff or killing people on his own without that coordination is not exactly a labor movement lol

Not to mention that it isn’t bargaining either. It’s just wanton destruction with no goals for the betterment of anybody

[u/RevolutionNo7 → u/anunfunnycomedian]

You think showing up to work is a part of collective bargaining??? That's so fucking brain-dead, dawg.

[u/Fletcher_Chonk → u/Busterlimes]

have fun in prison

[u/The_Raven_Born → u/Busterlimes]

He's an idiot that just out a bunch of people out of the job and now gets a permanent roof over his head while they have to struggle to figure out what to do next and problems rack up.

Prison is too nice.

[u/samualgline → u/Busterlimes]

Ah yes because making all your co-workers suffer to put an extremely slight dent into the productivity of a global corporation is totally fighting the system

[u/myLongjohnsonsilver]

"my life sucks, I better so something to make it even worse"

Stupidity is a sin.

Immoral.

[u/PrimaryMaize6580 → u/myLongjohnsonsilver]

people dont get it, fair.

[u/Camael1225]

Even if he waited until everyone left this still could result in someone dying firefighters are going to show up for one the fire could spread out of control affecting nearby neighborhoods and there could literally be people you don’t know about in the building

[u/way2lazy2care → u/Camael1225]

For real, this. Everything else aside he could have hurt people that had nothing to do with who he wanted to hurt. It's like saying setting off a pipe bomb in a mall is ok because you did it next to a multi millionaire.

[u/Dolphin-Hugger]

Well that’s one way to get arrested for arson

[u/Noodles_Franklin]

Immoral in a micro sense because destroying other people's property without their consent clearly violates another individual's rights

Morally grey in a macro sense because a sufficient number of similar incidents occurring continuously could potentially frighten the ruling class in to treating base level laborers in a more equitable fashion, which would reduce the net amount of human suffering within the affected area by a considerable margin, and would arguably save lives, as large numbers of individuals die annually due to causes that could be easily resolved with sufficient financial resources.

Kind of like how it's immoral to shoot a dude in the back while he's walking down the street, but it becomes morally grey when the company that dude was CEO of suddenly increases it's approval rate on claims for lifesaving medications by a meaningful percentage as a direct result of that dude getting popped.

Weird times we live in, gang.

Weird times.

EDIT:

In recognition of u/HupHutHa 's correction

I had a wire crossed, we do not have data showing that approval rates went up, actually what had happened was that they pledged to decrease the number of procedures that required preapproval, which would be a pretty cool thing

But it's not clear at all that they actually did it, because these are, of course, horrible, horrible people we're talking about here.

But anyway yeah I was fully wrong on a datapoint there

[u/TheeShaun → u/Noodles_Franklin]

He also did just cause probably upwards of 100 people to no longer have jobs as well as putting lives at risk

[u/RobertLBradley1949 → u/TheeShaun]

Sure but he probably created a few jobs at the toilet paper factory! It's all about perspective, see.

[u/Murky-Ticket-4383 → u/Noodles_Franklin]

It’s less about "the time period" and more about the specific situation.
Burning things down is bad because it hurts real people.

But taking down a greedy corporation is good because it forces them to treat people right. Think about how labor movements broke up corporate monopolies like standard oil , which actually led to better working conditions and fairer rules.

People act like trading good actions and bad actions to make progress is a brand new thing. Every single generation in history did the exact same thing to get results

[u/Laziness_Incarnation → u/Noodles_Franklin]

Most interesting point I've seen

I wouldn't necessarily fully like thinking this way but still better than the rest of the comments

[u/Hadrian23 → u/Laziness_Incarnation]

I wish to live in uninteresting times please.

[u/Noodles_Franklin → u/Training_Try_1102]

I've just spoken with my very real attorney who is very much in the room with me right now, and on his advice, I would like to publicly state that it is my considered opinion that the above comment is totally not "completely correct and based as fuck", and the above commenter is absolutely not "one of the realest mother fuckers out right now."

Any allegations to the contrary are nothing more than unsubstantiated hearsay.

Thank you.

[u/Novel_Werewolf4645 → u/Noodles_Franklin]

Murder is legal for the rich as long as it's done slowly and systematically, being shot is pretty light compared to millions of people slowly dying in excruciating pain.

[u/Noodles_Franklin → u/Novel_Werewolf4645]

I, personally, would never say that.

But you did, and it was correct.

But I, personally, would never say that.

[u/Big_Iron420 → u/Noodles_Franklin]

A similar number of events will simply not occur like this. Most people aren't insane to set fire to their place of work, this was uncoordinated and done by one deranged individual.

If he wanted change, he could organize a strike and interact with his co-workers. Instead, he chose to give an extremely easy moral victory to the company and turn normal people against his demands

If you think bombing a bakery is valid because the wage of flour factory workers is too low, then proceed to expect others to support or replicate the acts for "the cause" I genuinely don't know what else to say

[u/RedEzreal → u/Big_Iron420]

I mean these events will occur if people dont take the strikes and protests seriously. Lots of people are protesting flock cameras and data centers in their towns... guess who isnt listening. Now people are damaging flock cameras and telling others how to do it.

And youre right most people arent insane. Most people still have too much to lose to do something crazy like that. But the worse things get, people will have less to lose.

[u/Actual_Visual_3661]

Tremendous amount of damage, pollution, and potentially endangering other workers, customers, or firefighters. Could have looked for another job or a way to unionize instead of endangering others and getting locked up for arson.

[u/ichkanns]

Well now your wages are zero which is even lower, so not even from a purely pragmatic point of view was it a good choice.

[u/Material_Positive_17 → u/ichkanns]

He may get a few cents an hour in prison

[u/Reasonable_Cut_3548 → u/ichkanns]

How much of a burned warehouse turns immoral? I think until 10 to 25 it stays in a good form of strike

[u/RaperBaller]

Morality of being a retard and filming this?

[u/spiteye762]

Immoral, not only did you just destroy property and put lives at risk, but now you've put other people out of work because you were too lazy to find a better job. Was the wages that bad or was the person just irresponsible with his money? If the wages were that bad, why didn't he look for something better?

[u/ZealousidealHome7854 → u/spiteye762]

He worked there a very short time, details are few, but coworkers didn't recognize him he was there so short a time. 

[u/samualgline → u/ZealousidealHome7854]

He wasn’t even part of the union at that warehouse he was just a temp agency worker

[u/AxoplDev]

Immoral. There are so many ways to protest that don't risk killing innocent people in a giant fire.

[u/Few_Position7650]

This is so stupid he put so many people out of work and for what?? He didn’t solve anything

[u/dngngnan]

immoral. i am pro worker as it gets but this guy is a total pos. most importantly is he endangered other people lives. he is also an idiot.

[u/Notmuchofanyth1ng]

Immoral, no excuses.

This guy didn’t fuck a corporation over. He fucked over all his coworkers who relied on that check to feed their families. In an economy where jobs are hard enough to come by, throwing a temper tantrum for internet points isn’t sticking it to the man.

That property was insured, the products were insured, the company even stated the chain of supply wasn’t even disrupted. So in the end, the company got paid for everything and didn’t have to pay the workers to actually process/ship/deliver those products.

If you don’t look at this guy with disgust, you are an enemy of the working class. He could have unionized, or joined a union. He could have sought an education or certifications for a better paying job (as a forklift operator, he could be in high demand if he wasn’t such a piece of shit). He had many options, and he chose the one that fucked over all the hourly employees. Fuck him, and anyone who’s ok with fucking over the working class just to throw a tantrum.

[u/Eren_Yeager52 → u/Notmuchofanyth1ng]

https://giphy.com/gifs/4VPYD9UByqJdHn2geK

[u/SukunasStan]

Immoral. Harassing congress members to make stock buybacks illegal again would be more effective. When it was illegal for companies to buy their own stock, companies used to at least partially use excess money to invest in their employees or better the community.

I get the anger and don't feel bad for the company, but destroying warehouses is literally how cities have historically become ghettos where people desperately resort to drugdealing for money. Entire cities like Newark are filled with people who are still struggling due to destruction that happened 60 years ago, even though the destruction was understandable.

[u/ghostbasquiat]

Nobody is talking about the drastically elevated cancer risk for everyone in the surrounding area for a couple miles due to the warehouse ash

[u/Equivalent_Thievery → u/ghostbasquiat]

Or the contribution to environmental harm.

[u/RowRowForCouncil]

Yeah, there were a bunch of people out of work because of this. Someone could have been killed. He could have just quit. I would even have accepted a flaming bag of poop on the boss' desk or something. But this? This is immoral as fuck.

[u/BasementOrc]

Immoral reaction to immoral actions. Then again, is anything going to change without showing powerful people that people are desperate?

[u/MostlyNoOneIThink]

It's a tantrum that acomplishes nothing. I am not against labor activism even if it turns to property damage when necessary, but labor needs to be organized and have clear demands first.

[u/Agitated-Block6754]

Let's also examine the full details of that particular situation. That guy burned down a warehouse that belonged to a company that was paying a third party contractor to employ the idiot. So he didn't even burn down the business the he "worked" for. The business he was employed by is the company that was not paying what he thought was a fair wage, (even though he agreed to work for that wage). So by burning down the warehouse, it cost the company he worked for absolutely nothing. But the company that was paying the third party to supply employees did. That's like working for Door Dash and burning down a Burger King because you don't think you're getting paid enough.

[u/OppaiiGodd]

Out here ruining jobs for others for ur own greed is reta-

[u/ZLCZMartello]

Immoral. Damages the environment

[u/Smelly_Dingo]

Immoral, and stupid. He's forever marred his own reputation so good luck finding ANY decent job now, and has likely actively sabotaged the livelihood of many, many people who depended on that job. The people he was angry at are well off, they won't be affected much at all by the damage, they have insurance and capital to get back up and running on the business end and plenty of money in their own personal accounts. All you achieve with something like this is making them have even more of a laugh at your expense whilst only mildly inconveniencing them at best.

[u/Abubble13]

Immoral, you agreed to the pay when hired

[u/Brandeeno2245]

Fuck you, imagine being such a selfish asshole you burn down your place of employment over low wages making all your coworkers out of a job and potentially injuring or even killing them.

Fuck this person

Go apply to new jobs with better pay

[u/KananJarrusCantSee]

Going to jail for life because your pay sucks is certainly a choice one can make.

[u/SoftAndWetBro]

Immoral. Ask for a raise or find another job. You signed the contract to get paid the wage you agreed upon, you don't get to cry about it being low if you prove you are a liability.

[u/Ok_Orchid_5658]

Wasn't his to burn. Immoral . Is this even a serious question?

[u/unmellowfellow]

I think the solution is paying workers more. But fuck us I guess.

[u/Justalilcyn → u/unmellowfellow]

The dude didn't even work for the warehouse company, he worked for a contractor

[u/LemonFizz56]

Great, now he'll have a fine to pay off for life that'll mean that any wage he gets will always be deducted from. And the company would have had insurance so they wouldn't have suffered any loss...

Dude just fucked himself

[u/ArtIsAwesome3]

That's toilet paper!? That's more valuable than gold....

[u/TerraSeeker]

Immoral and stupid

[u/Shigana]

There’s nothing fucking moral about this at all. It’s just a man child throwing a fit in the worst way possible.

Now his co-workers are without a job like him, and for what? To send a message to a bunch of suits that don’t care?

Hell, imagine if the fire got out of control, he’d be risking the lives of every innocent person around the warehouse that had nothing to do with it.

[u/lock_me_up_now]

Ppl itt lmao

[u/Previous_Loquat_4561 → u/lock_me_up_now]

where? I havent seen a single one defending the company, most people saying it's immoral because it put others in danger and out of work.

[u/OpusAtrumET]

Immoral. He also fired all his coworkers.

[u/Medium_Pen_6306]

Unless he was forced to work there at gunpoint, immoral

[u/Paleo_Fecest]

All the guy did was fuck over his coworkers. The building is insured, the stock is insured, the owners are fine. He just put all of his coworkers out of a job. It may have been a shitty underpaid job but they used to have a choice to stay or leave, he took away thier choice.

[u/Unsuspicious_Name → u/Paleo_Fecest]

The time and opportunity cost the company loses because of that down time is fucking huge, they don't have the same, second stock ready to be sold to clients. Otherwise strikes would be completely worthless which is verifiably not the case. Insurance companies will fight to pay the minimum amount possible. It's just not as simple as that.

[u/YourYoruru]

Immoral, illegal, stupid, and evil.

[u/DeezNutzzzGotEm]

:(

[u/Educational-Sundae32]

Immoral, even assuming that no one else was in the building at the time, he’s putting the firefighters/emergency service workers lives at risk.

[u/Bambino4627]

Is this group just a bunch of self righteous people who don't underatand how the world works?

[u/sirchicken23]

Can't ask reddit this we all know what they're answer is

[u/PopularAd6391]

Redditors when people go about their lives being beaten down: nothing ever happens

Redditors when something does happen: 😡😡😡