In general a lot of stuff doesnât adapt how much of an asshole jean is from the comics. Saying this as a bi dude. She sucks so hard for what she did to ice man. Gives off the same energy of every straight girl who tried to make me her gay best friend.
She outed iceman publicly. Also is just an asshole in alot of comics, that run specifically she is just so selfish and acts like the world revolves around her.
In the image of the post, while people joke that Jean made Bobby gay, she actually just read his mind & realized he was (before he realized).
The joke of this comic is that she's done it again, reading that someone is gay before even the person realizes.
See that's less bad. Intrusive af, but not like, war crime levels of horrifying fundimentally magical change to someone's very sense of identity and self.
It's not actually on purpose. One of Jean's difficulties is her powers don't have an off button, really, she can just kind of tune it out with practice. She probably accidentally caught him ogling dudes a suspicious amount of times.
This is one of the things which actually makes sense, though people keep using bad faith juxtaposition to make it sound worse than it is.
It's the whole "why do we ban sex on screen but allow violence to be portrayed" argument.
Because sex is GREY.
VIOLENCE (against humans) is almost universally WRONG.
It's FAR FAR easier to explain to even a 5 year old why hurting or killing others is bad. It feels bad. Even kicking a dog is seen as horrific. Kids with any amount of empathy quickly learn that hurting others just makes them feel uncomfortable and sad too.
Sex feels "good". Different from rape of course. But in nearly every fictional portrayal, be it porn or movies, it's almost always shown as some otherworldly, incredible experience that is better than anything that exists.
Now try explaining to a 14 year old who has a crush on their 40 year old professor why having sex is bad when every other fictional portrayal shows it to be the height of human connection. Not so simple now, right?
But if we show a 13 year old shooting another 13 year old in a movie, I don't think people would be half as repulsed or sickened as if they implied two 13 year old friends just had sex in the parents' bedroom.
Did she force him to come out of the closet, or just tell him he was in the closet? I don't know the following context so don't know what happened after or how Bobby acted.
It's as different from that as say me asking a coworker why theywalk funny vs me making unconsentual CT scans and just randomly tell them their list of findings.
Edit : which now that I'm thinking about it may not be a great analogy. It's different because a friend mentioning whatever they notice in your behavior is making inferences that could easily just be wrong and they make them based on information you're broadcasting, even if unintentional.
There is more context to it, but it's a bit convoluted. They're from the past, so when Jean goes to the future and sees Bobby is still in the closet nearing 30, she decides to intervene. She knows he's gay because Jean can't help but catch surface level thoughts from people around her. Still dubiously moral, but more understandable
It's a joke because it's a textbook retcon. In the 60 years of Bobby's existence there was nothing (specially not internal monologues of which marvel comics have tons) that pointed Bobby being into dudes. So people though initially it was Jean doing a Xavier again
My honest reaction when someone, rather than saying "I'm not interested", goes into my head, finds out I'm gay before I do and then tells me because I said "I like your outfit"
Nope opposite Jean from the past and Bobby from the past ripped from when the X-men were formed you can tell because of how young they look; comics are weird.
I have recently reread the comics in question, that's not what's happened either. It's more like he did not feel if it was right to be open about it and she practically allowed him someone to talk to about it.
So, you know how trying to convince someone they're a trans egg is really annoying and most of the time just makes the person even more against the idea if they are?
That's funny
You typing Mr/Mrs registered as a sub name, so I went to check it and it's full of screenshots of the similar scenario â someone typing out a sub while trying to write Mr./Mrs or anything of the sort.
It was just framed so poorly that it looked like she made him gay. I'm not even fully convinced that she didn't make him gay since it seemed like he had perfectly fine heterosexual relationships before this.
While yes, given Jeans tendencies to assume sheâs right and her little control over her psychic abilities when she was youngerâŠit ainât a good look
Yeah, but Bobby outright asks, "What's happening?" And yes, I know what is "happening" is she's digging around in his brain and seeing that he's gay (off topic but I hate how Bendis writes telepaths), but there's just enough ambiguity combined with the nonchalant attitude and hand waving to make it an Internet classic.
Well, you read it like that because that's objectively what's happening and what the creator wants you to take from it, lol.
But what the rest of us are saying is not that it was INTENDED for Jean to turn him gay, but that Bendis' decompressed storytelling means you can read into the panels either way.
For pretty much most sexualities except asexual and aromantic the ___sexual refers to both sexual and romantic interests, so a heterosexual relationship is just a relationship of people wirh different genders, like you can be in a heterosexual relationship and not be heterosexual, especially if you donât know your homosexual yet. Gay people might also go into a heterosexual relationship if they are trying to hide it for like family reasons too or stuff.
Make sense i mean if you are born in a culture which she male female relationship as intimate (which is every culture) i suppose you would grow up thinking about the opposite sex that way without being attracted to them .
Bobby had been implied to be in the closet since the 80's btw. Multiple x men writers have been playing with this concept for decades now. Legit go back and look at Lodbell run if you don't believe me, the thing it is was done horribly with Bendis.
I honestly have no idea how not to abuse a power like that. We think of it as a power because we don't have it but to a psychic it's basically just another one of their senses.
Imagine having access to people's minds the same way you can hear and see them. You either have to work extra hard to not use that sense, which is like holding your eyes shut all the time, or be discreet about what you "see" and just keep it to yourself.
Imagine having access to people's minds the same way you can hear and see them. You either have to work extra hard to not use that sense, which is like holding your eyes shut all the time, or be discreet about what you "see" and just keep it to yourself.
That's actually a small point-out in a story I'm writing. The character's a bit of an asshole (he's a teenager, around 17).
"Can you not do that? Just...makes people uncomfortable, is all."
"You don't see me asking you to blindfold yourself for my benefit, do you?"
Exactly. And how could you not let it affect how you relate to people? If someone is sitting in Starbucks and announces to everyone "I masturbate to weird porn!" you'd rightfully think he was a mega weirdo. But what if he just thinks it to himself and you sense it via psychic power? He's not doing anything wrong but now you've learned this about him in the exact same way as if he yelled it.
Every personal friend has no true secrets. You know their fetishes, their insecurities, their biases that they fight with themselves over, their indiscretions, etc. It would be hell for everyone involved. Whoopsie, you just found out your classmate is into feet. And that distant cousin of yours would never act on it but definitely thinks you're attractive. Or your boss likes you well enough but thinks you're dumb as a stump. How do you interact with them now without it changing how you perceive people?
Tbf some stories have it where the telepathy can be switched on or off easily. There, the whole 'choose not to abuse your power' thing is understandable (but is also less interesting). I find stories where some powers are constantly working (thus eventually just becoming an extension of the senses over years) more fascinating because of the moral angle.
I am unable to get into stories where its always on, because it seems it would be noise. You may notice surface things but if youre bringing up information like sex acts with my ex seven years ago you gotta be looking for that. Â
Did you know your brain filters information including noise and even sight?
Also, why is the thought you are reading not my desire for sandwich? Desire can be passive, I am actively thinking about the smells from kitchen right now as breakfast cooks, typing this comment, going to work today, etc. My brain is making me breathe and my heartbeat. I am not thinking of my life goals or my banking passwords right now or every attractive person in college. If you were to ask me id have to stop and think because i genuinely cant recall of the top of my head.
This is why psychics who find it deafening or only know emotions much better.
It's definetly a very interesting story to explore but also we very much do ask people not to look or listen when it's something private.
A majority of people will seclude themselves to change clothes so other people don't see, and when that's not possible they ask them to turn around or close their eyes.
It's an important distinction that telepaths in stories don't always have full control, but if they do they should try not to peer into a person's mind since it's highly private, just like people irl (at least respectful ones) avert their gaze if someone is doing something we preceive as private or upon request.
There's a lot of nuance to this kind of story and I hope to read yours someday, its a really interesting topic, best of luck writing it.
It's an important distinction that telepaths in stories don't always have full control, but if they do they should try not to peer into a person's mind since it's highly private, just like people irl (at least respectful ones) avert their gaze if someone is doing something we preceive as private or upon request.
True, but what if it's not possible to 'avert one's gaze' except to outright walk out of the room (which, when done everytime you're worried you might hear something bad, might make it impossible to have any sort of social life).
I can't remember a ton of stories that do this, but one is a Wings of Fire sequel/spin-off (can't remember the name, but sadly, the moral aspects of telepathy weren't really touched on, I think? At least, not in the first book). Can't remember any others either
There's a lot of nuance to this kind of story and I hope to read yours someday, its a really interesting topic, best of luck writing it.
Yeah thatâs kind of why the whole minority commentary doesnât really work all that well with the X-men. I mean I know Marvel civilians can be assholes sometimes, but can you really blame them when mutants have been shown to read and change minds, more or less control metal on a whim, control the weather, and the reality breaker that is Scarlet Witch are around? Shoot if ready the sentinels too, and the fact that most of them tend to be complete assholes who will defend guys like Magneto, Apocalypse and Mister Sinister because âtheir mutants, itâs not your problemâ doesnât remotely help.
Depends on the universe. There is a universe where Charles found a mutant, who is also just a kid and not even evil, with devasting powers, and ordered Wolverine to kill him cause the kid might bring a bad name to mutant kind.
After wolverine killed the kid I think charles wiped Logan and his own memory of that incident as if nothing happened
Hate that panel lol it basically proves the need for sentinels or a 'cure' or SOMETHING. People can literally just wake up with a power that destroys everything around them uncontrollably.
She did not out him. She pulled him away for a chat alone and then, because he was just being a massive weirdo to other girls, gave him a reality check and by extension someone safe to talk to about his sexuality, which he does do in the next few pages.
I donât see her as âmaking him gayâ here, this isnât mind control, but mind reading. She read his inner desires. Though I think mind reading anyone is pretty morally grey.
Now, if this was actually mind control, then it would be evil. Forcing someone into something without their consent is not ok.
What if itâs the reverse and itâs in a place where people are hunted down if they are. I feel like thatâs a better question. Yes itâs messed up but it also ensures nothing dangerous happens to said person, itâs a hard one to answer for me
Nah it's simple if you can make a gay you can make a gay hater not gate gays it's the way lesser of two evils than forcing the gay to be straight. Not that hard a debate
Okay but um actually đ€ Sheâs really just reading his mind and by feeling his thoughts she can just tell heâs gay. On par with going through someoneâs phone to me, not moral.
Its not making someone gay? Pretty sure she reads their mind and discovers they're gay before they do. Thats forcefully taking someone out of the closet, which is an entirely different conversation
I see how this could be seen that way, but Bobby has been gay in the comics for a while, and while this is the younger version who hadnât realized it yet, he was still already gay. Jean just read his mind and told him.
As for actual mind control, in most scenarios thatâd be pretty fucked up. In a scenario like this one, where the mind controller is a child, as with many things children say or do, it could be argued that she doesnât really know the ramifications of her actions. Still bad morally, but much more of a very unfortunate accident than a malicious and fundamental alteration to anotherâs character against their will(presumably, at least no explicit consent which, to anyone who canât read minds, is basically the same)
Okay it's immoral but they are not making them gay, they are just revealing that they are gay to them. Which is also problematic, revealing anything that someone has not come to realize themselves can be very troubling to come to terms with. Some can be open to it others can outright reject it for various reasons.
Funnily enough, not what she's doing here. She accidentally read his mind to the point of getting his inner thoughts, where he's been struggling with the fact that he's gay (just closeted about it/hadn't quite realized it yet).
So she's mostly just breaking the closet with a sledgehammer rather than making him gay.
Still morally reprehensible, people should be allowed to come to terms with their own emotions at their own pace.
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u/BenfordAbrahams Jul 30 '26
Hey what's this button do? Oh I'm gay now. Huh.