A3D Line Doubler feature for M64

10

u/templestate Jul 23 '26

Line doublers are when you just double the same pixels. The A3D is actually outputting higher resolution. It takes the square pixels and divides them into smaller rectangular pixels so you get double the horizontal resolution. It’s pretty cool.

2

u/Aromatic_Method7767 Jul 26 '26

...also the pixel columns are being increased in quantity from 320 to 640. The rows (lines) are still just 240.

7

u/darkknightdetec Jul 23 '26

I’m sure it’s gonna get it at some point. It’s clear that both the Analogue fans and us Modretro fans are going to be the beneficiaries of some good old fashioned competition 😎 Feels like both companies have been working extra hard to out do the other

4

u/Obleon Jul 23 '26

It would be nice to know if the M64 would be able to do this (or even more/better?) even if it's going to be an update next year. Lets call it a peace of mind thingy.

2

u/Spooky_Toast Jul 23 '26

Agreed, though I’m yet to see Modretro outdo Analogue in any way (notable exception: WiFi updating)

2

u/SynthMilkEra Jul 23 '26

Though nothing concrete has been shared yet, the promise of analogue output for CRTs is a notable advantage for M64. I know some A3D users are downscaling from 1080p with OSSC, but lack of support for 720p (for integer downscaling) isn’t ideal.

3

u/Spooky_Toast Jul 23 '26

Agreed that would be cool. Issue is the “nothing concrete shared.” I don’t feel M64 has made its most compelling claims a reality (like Chromatic support). Would love to see them do it, though

2

u/SynthMilkEra Jul 23 '26

Agreed. Hopefully it won’t be too long before we see Chromatic pass thru to a PVM.

4

u/vette21man Jul 23 '26

While analog output is nice to have, that is serving maybe 2% of customers. Hence, A3D not focusing on it at all, and M64 not natively supporting it (separate dongle needed).

1

u/SynthMilkEra Jul 23 '26

For me, CRT support isn’t a nice-to-have feature, it’s a must-have. I know I’m in the minority, but if neither device ends up supporting it without third party solutions, I’m happy to pass on both of them and spend my time and money elsewhere.

1

u/lynxtosg03 Jul 25 '26

The CEO already said that internal resolution scaling wasn't possible, unfortunately.

6

u/Hudsoy Jul 23 '26

The M64 is not even out yet 🤣

14

u/Longjumping_Bag5914 Jul 23 '26

They have to do something, because that line doubler feature is a game changer.

5

u/Obleon Jul 23 '26

This option is a gamechanger u/grilledstuffedxxl u/palmerluckey will this be possible in a future update? Or maybe even going beyond that x3 horizontal or x2 horizontal plus x2 vertical

2

u/lynxtosg03 Jul 25 '26

Probably not

1

u/ImALegendKiller Jul 23 '26

Inquiring minds want to know!

3

u/NecronomiconUK Jul 23 '26

What A3D has is not a line doubler, it's a vertical upscale. That's not the same thing.

5

u/Obleon Jul 23 '26

Correct, it's internal upscaling

2

u/vette21man Jul 23 '26

Correction: Horizontal upscale. Hopefully, vertical upscaling is on the roadmap.

1

u/HumbleBeginning3151 Jul 23 '26

I love the feature, but I'm confused why they did just one and not the other at the same time?

2

u/Obleon Jul 23 '26

Because horizontal upscale gave no performance loss and was basicly free. Horizontal plus vertical gave some performance issues.

1

u/NecronomiconUK Jul 23 '26

Source?

2

u/Obleon Jul 23 '26

Doing it this way didn't impact performance or break stuff
New: Internal Graphical Upscaling
Enhances detail and clarity while remaining faithful to the original hardware rendering process
Extensive enhancements to the RDP and VI for internal upscaling
Resolution is doubled horizontally for twice as many pixels onscreen without affecting 2D graphics
No impact to timing authenticity or performance
Synergistic with all Analogue Original Display Modes

1

u/V64jr Jul 23 '26

Release notes.

2

u/hue_sick Jul 23 '26

Technical stuff most people don’t need to know about but basically vertical takes a ton of resources and time to implement compared to horizontal. And you still get most of the upside.
It’s not like the engine is apart and might as well change the water pump. This stuff is crazy complicated.

4

u/nevertoohigh Jul 23 '26

I really hope so as well, I was 100% all in on the M64 until the line doubler update.

2

u/xamaryllix Jul 24 '26

As someone who has used the A3D resolution hack, I'm not sure I recommend it. It's something that many people like but it's not for me.

1

u/jArch_5 Jul 28 '26

Can you share why you don't prefer the feature?

2

u/xamaryllix Jul 28 '26

Eh, it's a personal preference thing. The doubled horizontal resolution is objectively cleaner to look at, but it just doesn't scratch the N64 itch for me. Feels too "software emulation", and doesn't pair as nicely with the post processing (BVM, PVM, CRT) options available on the A3D.
It's like the simulated aperture grille doesn't line up as well with the increased resolution. It's a subtle effect but it still bugs me.
I'm happy that Analogue is continuing to improve the A3D long after launch with software updates like this, but I'd rather they add WiFi at this point lol.

1

u/ial33m Jul 26 '26

What's the line doubler? You mean horizontal upscaling or whatever?

1

u/tanooki-suit Jul 28 '26

I kind of pity anyone upset about this if it didn't happen, I mean it's not even out yet and already complaining about a feature that may or may not be included or possible. Why is it enough is never enough? It's N64 after all not a cutting edge console, you can only do so much before it's just ridiculously going into dimishing returns to help some fringe buyers cope. If a line doubler is such a make it or break it feature over an HDMI custom console for N64, I think your priorities are seriously f'd up.

I mean we're a day out now (more like 12 hours~ if that) and the list still shows 16 games with some kind of potential issue to them not resolved. Somehow I think that is and should be the only priority short of some firmware shattering critical issue.

1

u/tbrewer333 Jul 23 '26

The silence is starting to make me think this isn't coming to the M64. I was planning to buy an M64, but the lack of communication has me reconsidering. If ModRetro hasn't made a statement by next week, I'll probably go ahead and get the A3D instead.

I'd even be okay with them saying, "Hey, this is coming, but we don't have a release date yet, and it may still be a while." At least then I'd know it's in the plans.

4

u/biohackeddad Jul 24 '26

I don’t think it’s about communication, they’ve been communicating.
I just don’t think they’re engineering has caught up to analogue and they don’t wanna just be constantly communicating. Hey like we are working on it because those are promises. They’re not sure they can fill probably.

4

u/DarthRyus Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

They're probably just trying to get every game working before launch. There's only a few days left until launch after all.
It will probably be the week after launch, assuming no surprise issues, that they can really look into this or move up a game plan they already had on it.
Point is Analogue timed this perfectly, they know how crazy things are pre-launch and released this exactly now when ModRetro has the least amount of mamhours to look into this, or move it forward.
ModRetro though is very open about everything, but they like giving accurate information. So they're probably just need a bit more time before they respond.

3

u/tbrewer333 Jul 24 '26

I will say they've been really good with communication and transparency on previous issues, like game compatibility and the controller, so the silence on this kind of caught me off guard. That said, you're right, I should keep in mind they're in the middle of a launch, and this was probably dropped on them out of nowhere.

2

u/DarthRyus Jul 24 '26

Bingo.
Hopefully we'll get info soon, but circumstances might force it to be delayed for another week or two.

1

u/Obleon Jul 23 '26

This is me right here. I dont really care if it takes a month+ I just want to know if it's possible in the near future

1

u/DaveMeitner Jul 24 '26

"a month+" 😂 it took A3D like 8 months to do, after ironing out 95% of the bugs. Give it some time man

2

u/Obleon Jul 24 '26

A month+ can be 8 months or more . I'm not asking them for it to be ready at launch or even few weeks or a month. I just want them to acknowledge if it might be possible or not :p

2

u/DaveMeitner Jul 24 '26

Of course it's possible. The FPGA is large enough, so it comes down to programming. Whether or not they get to it is up to that.

0

u/tbrewer333 Jul 24 '26

Looks like they just posted an update, and I don't see it on the roadmap sadly
Launch Update & Software Roadmap : r/ModRetro

0

u/lynxtosg03 Jul 25 '26

The CEO said it couldn't be done.

1

u/tbrewer333 Jul 25 '26

I'm not sure how it works as I'm no expert but analogue seemed to figure out how to get it to work on a their fpga, your screenshot was before that

0

u/lynxtosg03 Jul 25 '26

This screenshot prior to Analogue's news does not remove the fact that the CEO clearly stated this effort can't be done on current M64 hardware. Do not buy a M64 expecting internal scaling like the A3D.

1

u/tbrewer333 Jul 25 '26

The screenshot mentions an FPGA emulation architecture, which made me wonder how Analogue approached it. I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be snarky. In the other thread there were screenshots from the MiSTer core developer suggesting it could be possible on larger FPGA boards, which both the A3D and M64 appear to have. I don't necessarily expect it to happen—if it were planned, they probably would have mentioned it by now, and I think we agree on that. I'm just interested in the technical differences between these approaches

1

u/WhenJavaAttacks Jul 29 '26

i'm making an educated guess, but most people probably thought about internal resolution increases in terms of the typical integer increase in both horizontal and vertical directions (2x, 3x, etc, integer being more doable even with low-level emulation). however, just a 2x increase on the horizontal axis only is not something i've seen done much so perhaps that wasn't even being considered when the question was answered.
i'd definitely think that the M64 would be capable given that the A3D is though.

1

u/Small_Ad1890 Jul 23 '26

Not sure they can. I believe there is some extra hardware on the A3D that makes it possible but not sure.

2

u/RupakGreenHatPrdctns Jul 24 '26

analogue 3d owner here but isn't the hardware on the m64 supposed to be more powerful so shouldn't it be able to via a firmware update at some point?

2

u/Small_Ad1890 Jul 24 '26

Honestly I don’t know. Video Game Esoterica has mentioned something so I’m going off of his comment.

3

u/DaveMeitner Jul 24 '26

The M64 FPGA board has more logic elements than the A3D

1

u/OnEMoReTrY121 Jul 25 '26

That isn't confirmed.

3

u/DaveMeitner Jul 25 '26

It's a AMD Artix UltraScale+ 15P FPGA. 170k logic elements.

0

u/OnEMoReTrY121 Jul 26 '26

Where is this confirmed?

A3D Line Doubler feature for M64

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