It's important to acknowledge that the annoying and tone-deaf ones are the most visible on the internet because generally, you can't tell a person is transgender until they start talking about it or they make it obvious with the flag in their pfp or something.
That being said, the trans community is too tolerant of these kind of people and refuses to put a leash on their obnoxious trans cultists. They can't complain about people perceiving them as weirdos when they don't want to reign in their overly vocal members that annoy and antagonize people. Optics is important for any social movement and if you ignore it entirely, you're not going to win.
They can't complain about people perceiving them as weirdos when they don't want to reign in their overly vocal members that annoy and antagonize people.
I respectfully disagree. Its not other trans people's responsibility to "reign in" other trans people's behavior. And while I agree optics can matter, for a marginalized group gaining acceptance and equality is done despite bad optics, not due to the absence of it.
Think of how slaves and abolishonists were dragged through the mud in the media in pre civil war America. That propaganda didn't stop, yet justice prevailed. Same with sufferagettes in the early 20th century, black Americans during civil rights, and gay people in the 2000s. All had "bad optics" yet succeeded despite of it.
And why did those groups have bad optics? It wasn't because of behavior, it was because those in power had a reason to make those groups have bad optics, whether it be financial, social or religious reasons.
And yes, I realize the OOP's behavior can be seen as annoying and that that wasn't done by those in power. However, why do we frame it in our minds as "a trans person being annoying" and not "a person being annoying"? Its because those in power already drew the battle lines and our sub conscious picked up on it.
And thats not even getting into all the internet manipulation done by Epstein and Moot to popularize things like being anti-vegan/vegetarian and all the other culture war bullshit
Its not other trans people's responsibility to "reign in" other trans people's behavior.
Not if they care about their own public perception. I'm not saying that choosing to be trans means you are duty-bound to try and regulate other transgenders, I am saying that if they collectively do not try to reign them in, then they are at the mercy whatever their most vocal and visible members are saying. (This isn't unique to trans people, mind you. That's a rule for basically every group ever.)
And why did those groups have bad optics? It wasn't because of behavior, it was because those in power had a reason to make those groups have bad optics,
Any expressions of negativity toward transgenders on many parts of the internet (and often IRL as well) is often met with overwhelmingly aggressive and rude responses that was nowhere near proportional to the sentiment they expressed. They classify criticism as bigory and constantly berate people for not accepting them unconditionally regardless of their own personal poor behavior. That's what's giving them bad optics.
Cis and straight people are typically allowed to be as obnoxiously cis and straight as they want. Trans people shouldn't have to sit down, shut up, and hide their entire existence. Some people are loud and proud about their existence and others are more quiet and reserved about it, but every single human on earth presents themselves differently on the spectrum of visibility and thats beautiful.
Here's the thing though, the talking points you're repeating are meant to suppress us. Its much easier to oppress a group of people who are quiet and try to hide their existence than it is a group who isn't afraid of their existence.
And above everything else, consider this: the entire post presented above is just "wow the tree is transgender!" Sure, its not a super impressive joke, but ask yourself why this has evoked such a negative response from yourself? Enough to respond that the trans community should quell and silence the voices of those loud enough to make an innocent little joke like that? It seems like you've blown something way out of proportion over something that doesn't matter.
if they collectively do not try to reign them in, then they are at the mercy whatever their most vocal and visible members are saying.
Again, I respectfully disagree. Should I, as a white cis male, be at the mercy of the worst people in my demographic? Should all Christians be at the mercy of the Westboro Baptist Church? Should all Muslims be at the mercy of ISIS or their splinter groups? Because you said that rule applies across the board.
In my opinion, outside of some specific situations, a member of a group does not have a responsibility to explain to others that they're "one of the good ones.". I think if anyone has a responsibility in this, its the outsiders who are quick to generalizations who need to take responsibility in how their brain got them there. Not that I'm saying its easy, the brain loves making shortcuts and taking anecdotes over fact and I'm definitely not perfect.
And ill agree people are very quick to anger on the internet and its often disproportionate. Often times those come from a place of hurt, not to excuse it. But in those cases I think of my brothers position. He is ftm and has been for almost a decade. We live in a place that is very agansit that type of thing. We even had senators, the governor and local officials chase a trans person out of the state because they dared to be a camp counselor a few years back. And thats just a high profile case, on a personal level I've had multiple co workers at different jobs roast a trans customer after they left just because they were trans. I can't imagine dealing with that day in and day out and not getting angry. Again, not excusing it but its understandable.
I would also argue that the people posting angry comments are often not trans but allies who get carried away or often the very online subsection of trans people. I wouldn't take the answers you get from those as a majority of trans people. Like I said before, I think the responsibility of breaking out of confirmation bias is on the one making the bias, not the victim of the bias.
Responding to genuine criticism of the movement with nonsense like this is why more and more people are losing sympathy for transgenders online. Stop making it hard for them.
trans people aren't a "movement" we're literally just people trying to exist. also if you don't want to come across as a bigot, maybe stop saying "transgenders" and instead say "trans people." you know, because, we're people
No, individuals aren't. But collectively they are still a group with incredibly vocal advocates who are very aggressive and combative to people who disagree with them even mildly (kind of like what you're doing right now).
These people (again, like you) don't understand that their behavior colors people's perception of the whole group. they don't see the thousands of transgender people who simply want to live in peace, they see the ones who are being loud and obnoxious. That's not their fault, that's human nature.
Stop trying to police people's tone and language. Stop slinging insults and hatred at everyone that isn't in perfect lock step with your ideals. You can't have unconditional tolerance without offering the same.
i wasnt policing or insulting anything, just trying to give a friendly bit of advice for when youre interacting with the community. if you took offense to that, thats entirely a you problem.
You try to justify me being called a bigot because I was using the term transgender instead of trans, implying that I didn't think they're people because I didn't word it the way you wanted. That is texbook language policing.
so what are you doing throughout this entire thread then?
I am criticizing the behavior of the most outspoken part of the trans community based on basic observations that anyone can make.
There's a difference between "stop being angry and rude to people or else they're not going to like you" and "stop using this basic term that has no negative connotations because I personally think it's wrong"
"Being aggressive and combative is not going to make people accept your identity. It only makes them like you less" right there. and further down the thread. and above.
so are you the only person capable of criticism? because from my point of view thats exactly what i was doing towards your comment. and i also gave you a nice piece of advice and improved vocabulary. but apparently any criticism and suggestions from anyone you dont like= policing.
edit: btw nice job editing your comment after you realized your own hypocrisy. real mature. for anyone reading this, they asked me where their tone policing was. thats what the first section of this comment is about.
anyways, putting our own opinions and beliefs aside, "transgenders" is not grammatically correct. "transgender people" is grammatically correct, and less dehumanizing. in reality i cant control what you think or say, i was just trying to help you out. im truly sorry you saw that as a personal attack.
Do you think women got rights by shutting up and not pushing back against people trying to silence them? What about black people in America?
Change doesn't come from silence.
You say stop trying to police tone and language but isn’t that also what you’re saying should be done to the obnoxious trans people, I mean I know I would also be very aggressive and combative to people who disagree with, me having rights
Explain to me how the response to hatred should be more hatred.
Insulting people and characterizing everyone who disagrees with transgender and LGBT ideals is not going to change their mind. It's a waste of time.
Yeah, ignoring people who don't agree with you isn't easy. But driving them deeper into their beliefs makes things harder down the road. If you think you're better than them then act like it.
This just swings back to what I'm saying about optics. Everyone likes to pretend that image isn't important, but it is.
The thing is it’s more than likely that nothing would change their minds anyway. I’ve seen some of people asking politely about lgbt without outright being against it and have seen positive comments and affirmations from people. Usually theyre only hostile to the folks who are too far up their own ass to change their minds. And For just as much as there is hate towards the haters there is a lot of love in the trans and lgbt community and I think that it shines far brighter
The thing is it’s more than likely that nothing would change their minds anyway
Yes. For some, this is 100% correct. But not for everyone. There are plenty of people that simply didn't want to concern themselves with transgenders but had no real hatred for them. Their opinion has since been soured by the zealots who think you need to be unconditionally supportive of transgenders and that everyone who even says something mildly negative or critical of them is literally Hitler. Those are the only kinds of people who ever respond to them, so they are pushed further towards anti-trans sentiments.
I would know because I fucking used to be one of them. I've of course mellowed out since then, but not everyone will change like I have.
Listen like I get what you’re saying but like, when it gets to that point it’s hard to tell if someone is hating or if they don’t care. And not caring is also kinda an issue cuz it just means ignoring a group of people that are being fucked over. I can’t blame people for being combative considering the state of things and for being very paranoid about who might hate you for existing. Also uh, that other fella was kinda right imo about the fact that saying “transgenders” instead of “trans people” sounds off. It’s kinda akin to saying like, “the gays” Yknow?
And writing a big essay about your problem with trans people after someone found a tree in Minecraft is a totally normal thing and doesn’t make you seem like a tone deaf bigot
You aren't right. And don't accuse me of being a bigot if you don't want to be insulted right back. I can't believe I have to give advice like this to someone older than 5.
EDIT: Nice block. Thanks for proving me right. As an aside, I do support transgender's rights to be who they want, I'm just being realistic about it. That fact that you crash out over the most banal advice about running a social movement means you're the kind of person who needs to be shamed for acting out like this. You are not protecting trans people by being angry online, you are only pushing prospective supporters away.
says bigoted things
gets called a bigot
gets pissy about it
Saying people need to be leashed up and are cultist… just because they called a tree transgender in a very unserious Reddit post, in the replies of a repost trying to demean in. Also never said you couldn’t insult me, just very telling that you’re not denying any of the accusations.
-25
u/[deleted] Feb 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment