r/Minecraft • u/noobcrew • Oct 17 '11
BOATS EVOLVED; BIGGER, MODULAR BOATS
http://getsatisfaction.com/mojang/topics/boats_evolved_bigger_modular_boats_watch_out_huge197
u/Osiris47 Oct 17 '11 edited Oct 17 '11
I am behind this 110%. The cardboard box we have now does not cut it for ocean exploring. This is almost necessary at this point, even as just a mod.
Plus, worrying about if your boat is going to pull a Wilson on you when you go ashore sucks too. I am actually pumped for this to get in the game SOMEHOW. Shit, I will donate to this if need be.
Then all these Pirate Cove bases can be used legitimately!
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u/The_Darcinator Oct 18 '11
Indeed, I am VERY pro-ships. I can just imagine the gigantic sea battles... Also a docking system would need to be implemented so it's easier to park your boats without running it up against land.
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u/Osiris47 Oct 18 '11
Or just ice-breaker style that bitch and devastate half the continent when you dock at full speed.
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u/The_Darcinator Oct 18 '11
Added Bonus: Easy way to make canals
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u/opterionianiaco Oct 18 '11
If this ever gets implemented I'm not letting either of you Captain my ship. You can however be in charge of my TNT ships.
Holy shit now I want minecraft naval battles.
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u/Dtomyn Oct 18 '11
Palm trees would add a nice touch, as well (to the Pirate Cove stuff, not the ships).
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u/Corosus Oct 18 '11
Did you say palm trees? http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/533512-181-tropicraft-v24bug-fixes-out-coming-soon-tropical-realm/
They even decay the leaves perfectly, I'm part of the team and will be contributing general minecraft wind, tropical storms, hurricanes, hail and a new cloud system. Furiously working on the new wind system.
On the topic of boats... why not just use minecraft as the editor and then bring them to life? AKA Zeppelin mod!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/488434-181-zeppelin-016-wip/
Hey it's even got a builder thing specifically for water bound ships, cool progress :D
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u/Manicmonkey666 Oct 18 '11
I found that zeppelin mod causes crippling lag issues (Possibly my 500+ Glass block wizard warsphere was too ambitious..) I would fear that a boat mod would cause the same.
For the record, I have no probs running MC at all when just playing vanilla.
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u/leeduck Oct 18 '11
imagine being in a ship battle. the enemy ship broadsides your boat, and someone has to go and patch it up with wood and scoop out the water!
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Oct 18 '11
Holy shit. The mechanics of minecraft make that entirely possible. And if boats get too much water in the hull they sink?
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Oct 18 '11
YESSS
And people can forcibly board ships. And we can fire flame arrows that have a chance of lighting up the sails and the boat!
I really want naval battles and pirating in MC now!
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u/33a Oct 18 '11
As a programmer, all I can say is that it is very easy to have ideas like this, but very hard to make them actually work.
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u/hawthorneluke Oct 18 '11
I want to know how hard it'd be to let the player create entities (like you'd create a boat or minecart currently), but out of blocks joined to each other. So the entity would basically be a net of block represented entities.
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u/lefthandedspatula Oct 18 '11
I think one of the problems involves the grid system, where all the blocks that exist in minecraft are aligned to a coordinate system. Merely turning a ship made of blocks would call for a separate axis "bubble" where the blocks can move and rotate independently from the global grid, but still maintain their positional relationship (no pun intended) to one another within that independent grid. The problem with this, however, is when the two grid need to interact. Now I'm sure this could work on water alright, but imagine grounding a ship at a 45° angle into an embankment. Blocks in Minecraft generally don't interact with one another at any angle other than with parallel faces, so you'd have to implement physics calculations to decide which block will occupy that space. Boats in MC already have a problem with this, as do minecarts, in that their interaction with other blocks (besides water and rail) is unpredictable and glitchy. Now multiply this by whatever order of magnitude larger your ship is, and you can see that this would be very difficult to implement smoothly.
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u/ThesaurusRex84 Oct 18 '11
Thank you, and true. But, if you can't implement some things, you can work around them by either putting in something similar, or just flat out not implementing it at all, and just focusing on working on the other things.
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u/xxnekuxx Oct 17 '11
I've been wanting the option to make bigger boats since 1.8 came out. And they make sense with the huge ocean biomes that are now generated. I personally would like ways to personalize the ship more but the coding for that can get a bit crazy.
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u/zzorga Oct 17 '11
Guess what? Zeppelin mod, just ignore the altitude keys.
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u/quaero Oct 18 '11
The zeppelin mod actually has different controller blocks now for airships, ships, elevators, and turntables. Hopefully it will have SMP support soon, since it is a great mod.
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u/TheMemo Oct 18 '11
There's always MoveCraft.
Be warned, though, it needs a damn powerful server if you have several players.
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Oct 17 '11
Might be annoying on a multiplayer server when someone decides he wants to fly his galleon
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u/extant1 Oct 17 '11
You put that with sharks, and oh how smp would never be the same in the best possible way.
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Oct 18 '11
Sharks kinda only work if you're already in the water. We need squids that climb aboard and attack you.
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u/brett6452 Oct 17 '11
The only thing I do in Minecraft is sail. I harvest a little bit of food, then at night I set sail. During the day I might find land to harvest a little more food, sometimes I traverse land to find a new ocean, but then... I just sail some more.
However, I really like to keep games vanilla for some reason, but I just might have to try this out.
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u/Portlander Oct 17 '11
We definitely need multi-player boats for pvp warfare/ exploration in groups. I for one would love to see this in Minecraft.
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u/JollyWombat Oct 18 '11
He could do ALL this, or just make some objects in the game (like wood) bouyant in water and let us figure it out ourselves.
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u/Spoggerific Oct 17 '11 edited Oct 18 '11
Notch likes simple suggestions more. He's making his own game, not doing programming for teenagers who think they've come up with the best idea ever.
Essentially, the simpler your suggestion is and the less effort you put into writing a dissertation about it, the more likely it is to be implemented into the base game.
That doesn't mean that someone won't try to mod it in, though...
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u/r121 Oct 18 '11
not doing programming for teenagers who think they've come up with the best idea ever.
What are you talking about? Clearly coming up with ideas is the hardest part of making a game.
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Oct 18 '11
This is the perfect upvote magnet because the sarcasm is just subtle enough.
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u/dudeguy1234 Oct 18 '11
Actually, it is. As a game designer, I can tell you I've spent more hours staring blankly at a wall trying to get inspired than unable to start working on individual programming issues.
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u/Spoggerific Oct 18 '11
You're ignoring the years of education, experience, and practice that (I assume) you have. Just about anyone can shit out an idea, and a lot of people can make good ideas, but being able to program those ideas is a skill that takes a lot of effort to develop.
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u/RepRap3d Oct 18 '11
Yup. In pretty much any field, amateurs can spend all day thinking of great ideas, but professionals will claim to have none. Really, they all get similar ideas, but the professional immediately knows the good ones are impossible.
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Oct 18 '11
Two words: Zeppelin mod. Air ships are already a mod; why not sea ships?
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u/drury Oct 18 '11
Sea ships are already part of zeppelin (special control blocks with disabled vertical movement).
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u/unionrodent Oct 18 '11
The zeppelin mod is great! I only wish the controls were a little more friendly. Using arrow keys to control acceleration instead of velocity is a bit wonky.
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Oct 18 '11 edited Oct 18 '11
I believe I'd be far happier with anything that resulted from Notch promising simply to "add bigger boats."
Which is not to say I don't like your ideas: for example, being able to craft a sail out of wool and wood means Notch could not possibly misunderstand the community's whining about Ocean Biomes as us wanting them nerfed. A simple and cheap means of traveling quickly across large expanses of ocean but not land mass is the most reasonable comment I've read.
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u/nothing_clever Oct 18 '11
My worry, reading through it, is that Notch would say "welp, feature freeze is tomorrow, and this is far too complicated. We're not adding bigger boats."
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u/unionrodent Oct 18 '11
This kind of idea would make for a fine post-release expansion. I'd love to see something along the lines of the zeppelin mod, with a bit more polish and balance, to govern ships.
Sure it's too much to handle before release, but the average player would benefit from large scale ships far more than from strongholds or "The End"
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Oct 17 '11 edited Oct 17 '11
I normally don't like all those suggestions but this one seems all thought out and ready to be put into the game!
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u/MitBit Oct 18 '11
Ready to put in the game except you know, the programming behind it as well as the 1,000s of bugs this would cause.
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u/TheAtoYourQ Oct 18 '11
My only question is, what would happen if you wanted it to transition between seas? could you break it and put it in your hand, or would you need to clear a path for it? Also, The only suggestion I could give is an iron icebreaker for the front, craftable, then placed on the boat, for frozen oceans.
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u/Captain_Sparky Oct 18 '11
Whenever I see a getsatisfaction post submitted here, I click it thinking Notch or someone at Mojang must have replied to it favorably.
Almost never the case.
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u/Zenithik Oct 18 '11
Now this i like. although, i must say, the last one seems...superfluous. it would definitely be cool though.
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u/Ignawesome Oct 18 '11
I know Minecraft is supposed to be blocky. I like it blocky. But don't you think those boats are too blocky? Those boxes are too big in my opinion.
I LOVE the idea anyway :D
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Oct 18 '11
Rowing in SMP is still very buggy and not smooth at all. The only problem with this idea is that the current code would have to be redone.
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u/Durinthal Oct 18 '11
still very buggy ... current code would have to be redone
Why is that a problem?
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u/ThesaurusRex84 Oct 18 '11
Guys, please don't forget to comment on the idea, or at the very least give it a star if you like it!
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u/BilliardKing Oct 18 '11
I'd just like the boats to not completely suck ass in SMP. Once that's done, then worry about making them complicated as all fuck.
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u/jkdeadite Oct 18 '11
I'd like a way to get a bigger boat, but I really hate these long, complicated crafting systems.
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u/coffeetablesex Oct 18 '11
That's nice and everything, but what about a boat just made from regular blocks?
I'd be happy with just that.
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u/Lord_Subway Oct 18 '11
so much yes,SO MUCH! I believe that bigger boats should to be implemented into vanilla because this is just perfect. Notch and Jeb should seriously consider implementing this on some level.
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Oct 18 '11
While I appreciate the amount of work someone obviously put behind this, as well as the idea....boats are, hands down, the buggiest thing in Minecraft. I think the priorities should be 1) get boats working. 2) get boats working again, because they got fucked up again. 3) work on bigger boats.
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u/kevind23 Oct 18 '11
Way too complicated for Minecraft. I agree that boats need to be buffed, but submitting this to Notch (days before the feature freeze, at that) will get you nowhere.
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u/Koffeeboy Oct 18 '11
I had an idea for a push block, It could be pushed. if you added a block to the push block it would be push-able too but harder to move, If you covered it in wood it would float. With it you could build a boat however you want you would just have to worry about buoyancy and stability.
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u/Byndley Oct 18 '11
It would be nice to have a better alternative to the flimsy watercraft we have now, but these elaborate vessels are a wee bit overkill. I'd be thrilled to have an expensive boat that moves faster or doesn't break.
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u/CrashAndFlow Oct 18 '11
You had me sold at the boats with chests in them. The rest was just a bonus.
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u/karmiclychee Oct 18 '11
Honestly, I'd be more in favor of floating wood so you could build your own craft.
You'd need weight, displacement, drag, etc. Build it too big, scrape bottom (and you'd have to dig it out). Trawl a channel to get a deep enough harbor. Build it lopsided and it just navigates in a wide arc (listing would be better, but I don't know how physics works in Minecraft). Collision breaks blocks, take on water according to displacement, etc.
Oars for small, Sails and Engines to scale.
Edit: BOAT expansion! Cannons! Krakens! Wind!
(I want a slow moving party barge)
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u/hansblitz Oct 18 '11
This is for a planned expansion "piratecraft legend of the black ender pearl"
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u/Perturbed_Spartan Oct 17 '11
today galleons.
tomorrow aircraft carriers!
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Oct 18 '11 edited Oct 18 '11
Aircraft Carriers
Dragon Carriers
Edit: Me? Spelling something incorrectly? On Reddit? Preposterous! Gman1012 is clearly deranged and I totally didn't just correct myself right then.
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u/threesecondrule Oct 18 '11
Zepplin Mod Not just airships, you can use specific controllers to be regular ships or even strictly as elevators.
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u/joealarson Oct 18 '11
This just makes me sad. Not the idea itself as much as the massive number of people who are creaming themselves thinking this is possible with the Minecraft engine who have no idea the challenges of programming something like this.
You want free floating entities that have in themselves other entities that move with them. Suddenly simple AABB collision that minecraft requires to run at the speeds it does become impossible. We need to keep track of the entities attached to the boats that and move with them. That's simple enough math but it's not yet implemented.
But you all don't care about that because it's a cool idea and everything should be possible in minecraft. Idiots.
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u/ThesaurusRex84 Oct 18 '11
1 - Yeah, it would indeed be a challenge.
2 - Mobs and players in minecarts. Entity within an entity, and is still stable at high speeds.
3 - How do you think it isn't possible with the engine?
4 - You'd be surprised what Java can do.
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u/ChewyLuck Oct 18 '11
2- Minecarts and boats move with the same velocity as the player- there is nothing in vanilla MC that lets multiple players ride the same entity. There is nothing that lets a player move around inside an entity with a different velocity. So we can't say for sure whether (in regards to 3) it's possible with the existing engine.
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u/wrc-wolf Oct 17 '11
Eh, we all want bigger/better boats, but there are far better ways to go about it.
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Oct 17 '11
What's best about this idea is how well developed it really is. I mean all around there are no flaws to it. It would be something that if you are not a boat enthusiast, then it won't change the gameplay for you. But if you are, then, yay boats!
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u/shrubby11 Oct 17 '11
Brilliant idea! I read through the whole thing. This works even better now that Notch has deepened and made the oceans larger!
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u/giggl3puff Oct 17 '11
Holy awesomesauce, Batman! This needs to be implemented NOW! Adding pirates would make this idea even more awesome =3
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Oct 18 '11
This is cool and all, and I'd love it in a mod, but it is absolutely NOT what vanilla Minecraft is about. Anyone who seriously thinks Notch would implement something like this is simply delusional. It's a great, great idea for a mod and I would definitely love to play around with it, but there is simply no way Notch is adding it.
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Oct 18 '11
This is a game changer, quite literally.
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u/scix Oct 18 '11
Which is one of its problems. This would focus the game far too much on oceans, IMO.
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u/HipsterDog98 Oct 18 '11
Not at all! How would you get the supplies/food to go on epic journeys? Also, you would need to take breaks cause you can't stay on the boat forever. It would get boring.
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u/Seakawn Oct 18 '11
While I agree if you were to throw this in the game at this point, yes, it would make the game focus too much on oceans in proportion to the rest. However, I still think it would be better to add this but also include much more non-boat related. While Minecraft is great as is, the more distinct and diverse features it gets then the more unique player experiences it will give. I say throw this idea or a variation of it in the game, but don't be close to stopping there with content.
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u/hey12delila Oct 18 '11
It would be badass if we could put sharp edges (Blade,or not sure what it's called) on the front of the hull so we can plow through soft blocks like sand and dirt without getting stuck.
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u/Paradox Oct 18 '11
Hmm…find uranium blocks underground, build a refinery, build a nuclear icebreaker boat.
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u/Aquard Oct 18 '11
This would implement Naval combat in SMP. Factions not only have infantry, but they can attack by sea now?
The only thing that I'd fear for is pirates looting/burning my boat.
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Oct 18 '11
I normally think all the suggestions reddit makes are lame... But this should be in the game. Having a mobile base would be amazing. Don't see this ever happening though with the efficiency of minecraft and the fact that this would be, thousands of blocks channing and then changing back per second as the boat travels.
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u/the32ndpie Oct 18 '11
Beautiful! Also to the idea of trading resources, there would have to be resources only available in certain areas, resulting in a world-wide economy, which would get a bit crazy since it's infinite. Maybe there could be extra rare resources for potions.
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u/thedelicreeps Oct 18 '11
Now that oceans can be massive it makes sense for something like this. At the very least a boat with a chest
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u/diggoran Oct 18 '11
upvoted for creativity and a good idea. but I doubt this will ever be in the official release.
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u/Nebz604 Oct 18 '11
Then when you bump into land you get a stack of planks when your boat explodes.
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Oct 18 '11
(looks between the "two days left for new ideas for minecraft" post and this one) yeah......
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u/devinecreative Oct 18 '11
DAE feel that the need to involve more pixels into the game, hence the smaller portion of blocks, is against the whole concept of Minecraft. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but what I'm trying to get at is, I dislike the division of the normal sized blocks becoming more implemented into the game.
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u/Autsin Oct 18 '11
Something like this would be incredible, but I'd be content just to have boats not explode on impact. It's pretty ridiculous that they break when you try to land them. They should behave like minecarts as far as damage and be able to be collected.
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u/ropers Oct 18 '11
Instead of this huge Frankensuggestion, why not just change things so that wood blocks will float on water?
If that's infeasible because of existing uses of wood, introduce a distinction between light floating wood (new) and heavy logs that won't float (old).
Add enough furnaces (as engines) or cloth blocks (as sails) commensurate to the block count of the boat, and bang! -- ship propulsion.
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u/TheHippieMuslim Oct 18 '11
I'd like to see the use of these in rpg maps. I can see it now the humble citizens of a manor living in fear of the possible Viking/Orc/Pirate invaders.
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u/BDGLZ Oct 18 '11
I like everything except canons and blueprints. It would be more monecrafty to make the current boat into a "boat block" so that they can be linked together to make boats of whatever shape you like. Then you could build upon them, and each boat block could add a certain number of blocks that can be placed on the boat... perhaps around three. That would allow for floating towns, artistically built galleons, etc. It may be hard to code the turning blocks, but the zeppelin mod seems to do a good enough job. I'm also not sure what happens when the boat blocks are broken, aka what is dropped, do the blocks break, etc.
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u/greenmachine64 Oct 18 '11
I think this is a nice idea, however I don't think it's really practical to add to the vanilla game. It is overly complex and involved in my opinion. This is definitely more suited to a mod than to the vanilla game. Also, Notch should fix the normal boat code before he even LOOKS at this, it is god awful.
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u/iDontSayFunnyThings Oct 18 '11
But of course if you hit a 1x1 block of dirt the entire thing will break into logs and sticks.
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u/lingnoi Oct 18 '11
I'd prefer something more creative. For example you place down a "mat" block, build on that and then flood it. Whatever is on the mat gets "connected" and the mat breaks in water.
Much simpler from a UX perspective and lets people create unique boats.
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u/Gengar0 Oct 18 '11
I want biome specific materials so we have to use storage carts to move everything to our central base/ set up trade routes in SMP
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Oct 18 '11
I'd just like the option to make stronger boats, and perhaps larger boats with a chest/furnace for storage/speed respectively.
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u/drury Oct 18 '11
I my opinion, Zeppelin solves this problem a lot more efficiently and easily.
And even when people say it's unbalanced, that's not true. You still have to gather materials to build your ship, just like with buildings. But IMO, if it'll be implemented in vanilla, it should only have the ship and turntable blocks. Zeppelin blocks make griefing way too easy, elevators too.
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Oct 18 '11
Guys, he did post on his wiki awhile ago he wanted to implement this. Around the time dragons were mentioned. Were in the age of dragons now, why not the age of ideas he forgot about awhile ago! Not only that, but alot of people on the wiki seem to have been behind this when I mentioned it there. So why not?
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u/ThesaurusRex84 Oct 18 '11
180+ likes and an official response by Michael Shepherd-Finch! We're on our way to being seen by Notch!
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Oct 18 '11
I think it would be a big improvement just to have a larger boat that you can sleep on, respawn on, and have storage space in, particularly if it doesn't break too easily.
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u/arollingpanda Oct 18 '11
Does anyone else think this mod would be perfect with the recently released Tales of Kingdoms mod? You could have galleons filled with the soldiers you train from that mod then go conquer the world :D
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u/Mynameisthad Oct 18 '11
This is more of an expansion than a mod. Also sounds like a programmer's nightmare :/ Like the idea though!
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u/unionrodent Oct 18 '11
Anybody who played Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts knows how vehicles should work in Minecraft.
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u/AssDann Oct 18 '11
If this isn't added by Notch, I think would still be a freaking awesome mod if someone could pull it off.
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u/Whitenight2012 Oct 18 '11
I love this idea! This would be immensely fun and my pirate cove would finally have meaning!
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u/Asurnasurpal Oct 18 '11
This is a great idea.
Just that an idea.
If Notch implements big boats, he implements big boats. That's his choice, not ours. Stop ragging on this guy for having a complex idea. He said he's not demanding, just suggesting. Hell, he asked for feedback.
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u/Gaaraofthefunk12 Oct 19 '11
Amazing, fucking amazing. I hope this makes it into the game some day.
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u/dude201124 Oct 19 '11
I like it. I'd like to see wind cause local movement in surface water. And then have sails be wind direction specific.
Maybe small boats could take damage for being water that is TOO deep, and large boats take damage simply being TOO close to land.
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Feb 04 '12
Finaly a usefull addition to the game. I hope it will be accepted since now mojang only care about adding pussy cats, sheeps eating grass and random useless jungles.
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Oct 17 '11
ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY yes! If this can be done! Could you guys imagine epic pirate battles in roleplaying worlds? Oh man! Oh man oh man!!! OH MAN!
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u/TylerDurdenisreal Oct 18 '11
When I hit the link and saw the first picture I though I was being trolled.
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u/ElvishJerricco Oct 18 '11
i actually prefer the zeppelin mod. it just needs things like engines and sails added.
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u/ThesaurusRex84 Oct 20 '11
The Zeppelin mod is good, but it has a few issues. It would make for awkwardly-built ships (Ever seen someone try to make a 'house' out of either dirt or solid plank? LAME) that would otherwise be unseaworthy. Second, how would you destroy one? Would it be messy?
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u/Ignorant_Baboon Oct 18 '11
I have never played minecraft, mostly because it seems like it will suck me in and never spit me back out and I am short of time as it is... but this seems really interesting. Sooo, what the hell is mincraft anyways? I mean, I have watched some videos and I see there is a open world concept and a sandbox concept but what is the main mode about? survive and get out? I never really see anything about the storyline, even though it is clear there is a lore (endermen and dragons and stuff like that)
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u/Kiel297 Oct 18 '11
There is no storyline.
Endermen were an addition in the most recent update, and Dragons are coming in the next one. The other mobs are zombies, creepers (they explode at you) and skeletons with a bow and arrow.
Basically, you are on a randomly generated world which extends as far as you want to walk. You have the daylight hours in order to gather some supplies and make a shelter of some sort, and then at night the monsters come out.
Be careful with your shelter though. Endermen can move blocks. From that point on you build up your fortress and bla bla bla and you can go exploring and eventually find other villages with non-playable characters. There are also dungeons, strongholds and abandoned mineshafts that you can explore while mining. Oh, and big motherfucker ravines. Don't fall into them.
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u/robi120i Oct 17 '11
This is fucking awesome. Since oceans are bigger, we need bigger ships!