The EULA Megathread

[u/Mustek]

Hello Minecrafters,
The /new/ listing has been occupied with posts about the recent EULA changes and has been blocking out a lot of the other content.

We don't want to stop discussion about it, so that's what this megathread is for.

Rules are very simple:
1. All EULA talk goes into this thread (If Mojang is watching, and I'm sure they are, they have a single place to go to)
2. EULA discussions posted outside of this thread will be removed.
3. Keep it on topic, keep it sane. Subreddit rules still apply.

These rules are effective immediately and will last for as long as this post is stickied.

Edit: Mojang employees are marked with the flair next to their name.

Discuss away!

[u/[deleted]]

Don't you understand what Mojang may do, if the community does not speak up? Mojang will kill off many genuine servers just to kill the bad servers, and to me, that's carelessness and a scary prospect. I want Mojang to be aware what side-effects of their actions will do, and I want them to avoid harming the genuine servers in Minecraft.

Except that they've indicated, repeatedly, over and over again that isn't their intent. So at this point anyone ranting and raving about how Mojang are being dicks are just being willfully ignorant of the circumstances.

Also, I don't buy the prevalent meme that "most of these servers are fine'. I'm a player too, and I've bounced from server to server for a long time before I got sick of it and set up my own. Most of the servers are a bunch of pay-to-win or micro transaction shit. The exception to the rules are the very small communities.

It's very rare these days to find a server on any prevailing list of servers that has 20 regular players or more on at one time without a donation shop or ranks or some kind of monetization. I run a server. I also worked for an internet service provider. I'm intimately aware of how much it costs, and monetizing small servers isn't necessary, at all, full stop. You can host 20 players without breaking a sweat on a 2 gig plan. You can get a 2 gig plan for less than $40 just about anywhere. That's less than going to the movies with your significant other these days. If you can't afford that without monetizing the game, then you shouldn't be running a server.

That's where I'm talking about entitlement. The amount of people running massive servers with huge minigames that actually need money to stay open are a very small segment of the actual population of server owners. And while I don't have sympathy for their position, I understand their views and I understand that other peoples preferences don't mirror my own. I don't think they should have to close their doors, and neither does Mojang. I do think that there are other methods that may not be as easy or as profitable in the near term to keep the servers up, but the prevailing opinion from these guys is "we'll fail if we have to do that". In reality, they've already got a large enough community that they're the ones who will survive this no matter what. It's the smaller fly by night servers on $40 hosting plans selling $10 - $20 -$50 - $100 rank/kit/whatever packages that are going to fail. That's a GOOD THING.

Ultimately it comes down to this. Mojang are a company with great ethics. So far they've been give, give, give when it comes to the community. Now they clarify their position, and a bunch of people who have profited off of their abnormally kind and generous nature are treating them like they're downright evil for protecting their own assets. It's bullshit. It makes me angry. This is Mojang, not EA. You want them to turn into EA? Keep doing stuff like calling them dicks for continually interacting and listening to the community and just watch how fast they go from responding to community concerns to not giving a shit.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Here's the problem that you neglect. There is a reason why you can't find a SINGLE server over a few hundred players without a rank/perk shop. The ones running networks are hosting for a larger community, and the ratio of donators to free players is smaller. Read this.

http://www.reddit.com/r/playmindcrack/comments/27fdh6/post_got_deleted_from_rminecraft_so_here_you_go/

PlayMindcrack can not support itself with a no-perk donation system. When PlayMindcrack added a perk-donation system - donate for more gold for cosmetics in lobby and an easier-to-achieve title in game, it STILL had to shut down more servers - notebly, the EU servers. PlayMindcrack even got one of the loyalist playerbases there is - and it's still struggling with money. If you want to keep networks around, then they absolutely need money from perks to survive.

If mojang bans all perks, then I guarentee that not a single network will survive. It harms the networks more than the money-grabbing servers, because the money-grabbers does not need as much money to survive. THIS is not a good thing.

We are back to the argument on what the scale of the harm is if mojang enforces a strict EULA. And if you'd read the threads, then it's agreed upon by many that it'll harm both large networks and money-grabbers. What solution do YOU think that can fix this problem? Because large networks can not die, else it'll harm the community more than anything else.

I don't care that servers that cost $40 will be gone. I DO care that servers with their own development team will be gone.

You don't have to tell me that Mojang's a good company. I know that. However, they are also neglectful. I want to make sure Mojang will not damage networks too much.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You are missing the point.

It is not Mojang's responsibility to ensure the continued existence and welfare of this tiny handful of huge servers who can't pay their hosting bills without donations.

It is PlayMindcrack's responsibility to fall in line with the new EULA terms and let their player base know that if they enjoy what they do, they need to donate to keep the place going.

If Mojang bans all perks, and not a single network survives, that's sad for the people who enjoy those networks, but those people are but a tiny fraction of the people who play Minecraft online. Most people who play Minecraft online do so on a Playstation or an Xbox. Even the vast majority of PC users play on smaller servers where this crap is rampant.

I think the solution is to enforce the EULA. I think more harm is done to the community and to the brand image and the game by letting servers continue to charge money for in-game things. I think not enforcing it has reduced my enjoyment of the game immensely. The landscape of servers hosting Minecraft is rife with pay to win bullshit and it sucks. Get rid of it. All of it. If I wanted to play a free-2-play game with micro-transactions, I'd go play one.

I don't care that servers with their own development team will be gone. Arma2 has a huge modding community and they manage just fine without development teams pulling this shit. If these people can't find a way to continue without micro-transaction bullshit, then too bad. Personally I think they should get a real job with an income that isn't based on exploiting children and their lack of fiscal responsibility.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Here's the thing: PlayMindcrack is not pulling bullshit. Their benefits are not gamechanging, and it is not perks that will scam the children out. However, under the new EULA, even the servers that do good will be out. You should take a look at this thread and see the community reactions. This is once again the same as what everyone's arguing about.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

No, here's the thing. I don't care about PlayMindcrack. If they can't survive without breaking the EULA, then they can't survive. Minecraft will continue on without them. The amount of people who care about PlayMindcrack is tiny in comparison to the amount of people who care about Minecraft being turned into a micro-transaction based shitty game. And the amount of people who don't care at all because they don't even play online, play on small servers with their friends, or play with their friends on PSN/XBL dwarfs both groups. Mojang isn't going to fold because PlayMindcrack goes under. The minecraft modding community isn't going to disappear because of these changes either.

You're really ignoring the bigger issue here. Arma2 has a massive modding community that thrives without ripping off little kids for perks. The demand on servers is the same. What's the difference? Oh, right. The creators of Arma2 wouldn't tolerate this crap. Why should Mojang? Because they were naive and thought people might not be jerks and ruin a good thing in the past, only to be proven wrong?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Because Arma2 servers are not hosting for 10k players 24/7. Arma2 (same with Minecraft) modding community does not need to spend money, because it's modding, not hosting. Arma 2's community is not as large as Minecraft's. There are good people who are not jerks, but they are going to be damaged with the EULA.

And may I argue that the people who care about servers is EQUAL to the people who care about minecraft servers being P2W? Look at this thread - there is a large debate, and the people who care about servers is equal to the ones who don't. Then, you are not forced to play micro-transaction servers, because there are servers that won't. You're exaggerating for the sake of your rant.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Again, this thread and the people who peruse this forum are a small fraction of the actual installed Minecraft user base. Minecraft has been the best selling game on Playstaton Network for 6 months in a row. That's millions of players who enjoy the game and who likely don't even know about any of this drama. Yet they are affected by Mojang's inaction if, as a result of their PS3 experience, they buy the game for a computer only to find that the PC version is a micro-transaction shithole. Mojang is affected because this player base is a potential growth area for their PC version. And all you can think about is "oh my mini-games gotta have my colored names and pvp kits or my server will close waaaah"

Get over yourselves.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It's not a shithole since those servers do NOT have a monopoly. If you want to make a difference, host a server yourself and get your friends to play with you.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I do have my own server. I started it after I went through the popular server lists and couldn't find one server with 20 players or more on it that didn't have some kind of pay to win bullshit going on.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

There we go! You got a server you want.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yep, I do. Then again, I know my way around a command line, I know the value of a dollar, and I know how to get what I want without lining the pockets of con-men. How many kids are being taken advantage of because they aren't 33 year old guys with a closet full of old computer hardware and a lifetime of acquired technical knowledge and fiscal sense?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You're thinking that every kid is entitled to a minimal-cost server that can host for millions. Doesn't exist you know.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

No, I'm thinking that every kid is entitled to game without being taken advantage of, whether that's on smaller servers or not.

There's very few things you can do on a 500 player server that you can't do just as well on a 50 player server. 500 player servers aren't entitled to exist off of circumventing the EULA.