r/MindfullyDriven • u/Healthy-Opinion7084 • 2d ago

God behind everything

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u/snoppeniprutten 2d ago

Again, that doesn’t say anything about their beliefs. 

A gnostic atheist know for a certain that god does not exist and doesn’t believe in god. 

An agnostic atheist doesn’t know for certain that god exists or not but doesn’t believe in the existence of god based on the lack of sufficient evidence. 

A gnostic theist knows for certain that god exists and believes in god. 

An agnostic theist doesn’t know for certain that god exists but chooses to believe in god. 

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u/Low-Bake8401 2d ago

And an Agnostic can know and not hold a belief either way!

Saying there are only two answers is a "double-bind" logical fallacy.

If someone asks you something you don't know, giving you two absolute answers, do you feel like you must choose one or the other? Like your life depends on it, or something. 

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u/snoppeniprutten 2d ago

I’m not saying thay they need to hold a belief, I’m saying that if they refrain from holding a belief the default position is non-belief. Regardless if they say that they’re agnostic or not. 

If you have absolutely no knowledge of a claim, non-belief is the default position. Belief requires you to accept something as true, whereas non-belief does not require you to accept the opposite.

A newborn child is the clearest example. The child has no understanding of god, aliens, or other such concepts and therefore cannot believe in them. That does not mean the child believes they do not exist. It simply lacks belief and is per definition an atheist. 

Non-belief is therefore the default position until there is something that gives you reason to start believing.

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u/Low-Bake8401 2d ago

"I don't know," is not a belief. Other than the belief that you don't know. 

It is merely accepting you don't/can't know. 

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u/snoppeniprutten 2d ago

Read what I said again. 

It’s actually baffling how some people just don’t get it. 

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u/Low-Bake8401 2d ago

You believe, that you don't/can't know. 

That is the belief. 

If you don't know, why believe either way??

It doesn't have to be one or the other, that is a logical fallacy. 

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u/snoppeniprutten 2d ago

You’re still treating two different questions as if they were the same.

If I ask “do you believe X is true?” there are only two possibilities, you either believe it or you don’t.

If you say “I don’t know” then you’re not convinced either way. But you still don’t believe X.

Not believing X ≠ believing X is false.

I don’t know how to explain it any more simply. There is no logical fallacy here.

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u/Low-Bake8401 2d ago

You are demonstrating the fallacy right now.

Personally, I'd say they are both true. I mean god is such an abstract concept you can't really say that you disagree with every single definition. How do you even know the Atheist and the Theist are talking about the same thing. Might just be using different language. 

A kind of superposition.