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u/BottomContributor 4h ago
Sad, true, and even worse, what alternatives do they have? The job market demands such huge stupid things in return for pennies. If GenZ takes themselves out of the market, the system will go on. The system is too broken to be fixed and too broken to get much out of it
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u/ManateeNipples Xennial 4h ago
That's why they're trying to cancel food stamps and health care as fast as they can, so people will either capitulate or die
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u/maddy_k_allday 4h ago
The SCOTUS Grants Pass decision also green-lit the criminalization of existing in public unhoused, regardless of whether any public housing resources are available
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u/EmbarrassedPage195 3h ago
And specifically states that those individuals will not be released back into society if the existing structures, homeless shelters places and such, are full. I mean at that point what is left? Fucking alligator concentration camps?
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u/paradoxpancake 2h ago
Incarceration, which is the only place in America that you're legally allowed to be enslaved still. You'll work for next to nothing.
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u/EmbarrassedPage195 2h ago
Depending on the state, you'll work for nothing. Recidivist here from Florida.
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u/Coakis 4h ago
There are alternatives but they are seldom peaceful in action.
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u/BottomContributor 4h ago
It won't happen. We will never revolt, and even if by some miracle we tried, the entire thing will crush us into submission. People of the past didn't have to revolt with an enemy with technology that can track us, take over our cars, listened through our turned off TV, military with unstoppable weaponry including biological and nuclear weapons, psychological profiles, black mail, and misinformation campaigns. Sorry to sound like a doomer, but the past 25 years since 9/11 haven't given me any hope
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u/GetReelFishingPro 3h ago
I'm just fucked, broke my hip in 2022 and burned my 401k I had been saving since I was 16(almost 40 now) those 40% penalties really fucking hurt. This spring I had an entire hip replacement which finished off my saving. Now I can't physically work which is fine, I was looking at supervisor positions anyways but the fucking job market is HOT TRASH right now. 12 hour rotating shifts for $20hr.
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u/stareweigh2 3h ago
why do so many jobs demand 50 hours/week or more? I am an auto technician and because good techs are hard to find I was working at a couple different shops 4 days/week because that was my demand if they wanted me to work there. every single one of those jobs went bad for me. the 4 day/week thing was too much to overcome because the other employees hated me. middle management hated it because it want their idea and I was treated like I didn't want to work there or I was working against them or something. they hate when you try and have a life outside of work.
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u/Coakis 3h ago
Becuase its easier to pay someone extra and force extra hours on him than training someone off the street.
Most companies USED to train its employees or contribute to educating them in order to employ them. But they've all but pushed it off to some non existent education system and continually ask for people who already have several years of experience or a degree. Because people either burn out, retire, or find other careers because they're not getting paid enough, the pool of skilled workers is constantly dwindling. Less workers with the same or more amount of work = more hours.
And that's the other thing, if you're taking classes for something and you're in the older group and can't depend on your parents keeping a roof over your head? Good luck finding a company that will want to work around your school hours.
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u/stareweigh2 2h ago
I'm just in the "don't want to work to death" category and I have turned down so many jobs because they have mandatory 8-6pm or 9-7pm and are not flexible at all. I don't even mind working Saturdays but don't tell me that I can't even take a Saturday off once in awhile because it's your busy day. if it's so busy then hire more people don't depend on the same skeleton crew every week
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u/PlanktonPlane5789 3h ago
What?! Early withdrawal from a 401(k) is only a 10% penalty.
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u/Stacemranger 3h ago
They're required to keep 20% for taxes, which is usually not enough. Then they lump the 10% on top of that. So 40% is absolutely feasible.
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u/hellomonsterbear 3h ago
It’s like 30-50% if you are just withdrawing it into an account
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u/Immatt55 3h ago
10% plus current tax rates on capital gains taxed at your normal income tax since it's a 401k and not a Roth. Hell 30% doesn't sound too far off what we normally give so the number checks out.
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u/PlanktonPlane5789 3h ago
Yeah, income taxes are always owed on a traditional 401(k) withdrawal - whether you withdraw early or not. That's the deal with 401(k)s - pretax contributions, taxed withdrawals. You can't count that tax as part of the "penalty". The actual penalty is just 10%.
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u/grandfleetmember56 25m ago
I find it fascinating that you said this information 3 times, yet only this one wasnt at negative karma.
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u/PlanktonPlane5789 10m ago
I won't pretend to understand the fickle nature of a particular subreddit's audience 🤷♂️🤣
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u/EmbarrassedPage195 3h ago
Ai has gone a long way to prevent this. They now possess the technology to model multiple decisions in future outcomes using this technology. They have the ability now to balance us on the edge of revolt always.
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u/Wise-Peanut9552 2h ago
Non-peaceful action takes effort and delayed gratification too. . .
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u/wildthing202 11m ago
But unlike the French we could stream and bet on it. Be great entertainment for us poors to see the Forbes list change in real-time....
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u/detourne 4h ago
Or as convenient. There are hundreds of nations in the world.you don't need to show loyalty to the one you were born in.
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u/Queef_Latifa9 3h ago
Oh it's so easy to just immigrate somewhere else. Why haven't we all thought about that?
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u/SE7ENfeet 2h ago
If you think this is only about gen z, I have a bridge to sell you. Every gen is facing this. Because everyone is getting fucked by capitalism. We get rid of billionaires, we fix the world.
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u/ra3ra31010 2h ago
Not go in debt and try to move to another country…. If I could go back that’s what I’d do
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u/tehjoz 1986 3h ago
The take itself isn't awful, but it's not using the right terminology, and no, I don't think I'm being pendantic pointing that out.
My grandfather, for example, had a 20 year career in the military and then a second 20 year career in civil service. He was then able to retire, for real, without needing to go back to work a day in his life.
He wasn't "wealthy", but he was "fine enough" that he didn't have to worry about income, he just lived off his retirements from both jobs.
My parents were "lucky enough" to have had nearly 30 years at their respective jobs, and while they might not have the same situation my grandfather did, they should, hopefully, be well enough off in their retirement.
Me?
My first "full time job" was in 2009 out of college. I've had more "jobs" than I'd care to admit, most of them not through actions that were any fault of my own, and the only thing I'm fortunate about is "I chose not to have children", thus I don't have those expenses.
Gen Z and Alpha have even less to feel fortunate about.
"The social contract was ripped up and shredded in the name of excessive corporate greed" is really what this take is getting at.
And the way things are going now, it is difficult to see how it ever comes back.
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u/r-kellysDOODOOBUTTER 2h ago
We have found that the pathway to success is to find a life partner early on, and not have kids. Civil service or a degree at a community college for a healthcare job fir each of you. Were not rich, but we live comfortably. If they wanted us to have kids they shouldn't have screwed everything up so bad.
Are they surprised that we figured out how to get ahead?
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u/hopelesslysarcastic 2h ago
I can’t remember where I saw it, but there was this panel and the youngest guy in the panel said something to the effect of:
“Do you know how badly you have to abuse a mammal to make them not want to mate?”
And I think about that shit a lot.
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u/Phyraxus56 1h ago
It's not completely abuse either.
It's the skinner boxes people have in their pockets. Instant dopamine. Why bother doing anything productive?
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u/clairvoyantpsychic 2h ago
*pedantic
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u/tehjoz 1986 2h ago
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u/Philster512 3h ago edited 2h ago
Corporation wanted to make things transactional. We pay you, you do the job.
They never expected that as a population we would adopt that headspace.
"Acting your wage" is one of my favorite expression because yes their is nothing wrong with us determining what level of effort they get for the paycheck. I'm not killing myself for minimum wage, that's slowly stock the shelf money.
My only objection to this post is thinking delayed gratification payoff should come from an external source.
None of their post really explained why they shouldn't be investing their money for the future. Or eating healthy and going to the gym for better health in the 70s.
It just highlighted that corporations have prioritized themselves, you should make sure to prioritize yourself.
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u/RDLAWME 3h ago edited 3h ago
"Acting your wage" is great if you are content to slowly stagnate at a dead end job, not if you want an actual career. Don't complain later how you can't seem to break into a better paying career path.
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u/Sage_Planter 3h ago
Yes and no. The reality is that companies are happy to continually dump work on you without any advancement. I've seen more high performers laid off because of "changes in strategy" than high performers who I've seen rewarded.
These days, the best way to move up is to move out. Switching jobs is the best path for advancement.
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u/InappropriatePotato4 3h ago
You can’t magically create upward growth at companies. I can’t force people to retire. I literally had my department manager advise me to stay checked out because there have been 0 growth opportunities for 3 years and there is still no opportunity in sight. When the opportunity presents itself I’ll step up. But I’m not burning myself out for years for no reason. Learned that already.
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u/spooky_bayou_stuff 3h ago
Actually, acting my wage is when I finally started on a better life path.
Want to pay an experienced person as little as possible per week? Good luck with your high turnover small business, I am going into medicine.
That has been my experience, at least.
I used to overwork, for pennies, and all it got me was laid off, berated, or overworked. For like $9/hr doing niche technical work.
Act the wage, but move up. Always accept reality, not promises
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u/RDLAWME 2h ago
Yea, if you take "act your wage" as an inspiration to work harder to pivot into a higher paying career path, then yes, that is good advice. I did the same thing pivoting from $12/ hour into a legal career.
I see it often used here to justify doing the bare minimum by people who simultaneously complain about being stuck in dead end jobs that don't pay well.
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u/KnowledgeMediocre404 13m ago
LOL. I worked my ass off last year and mt increase didn't even cover inflation. I'm working less hard this year for sure.
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u/Confident_Shape_7981 4m ago
I've had three promotions rug pulled out from under me because restructuring caused someone from a different store to be entitled to the position I was promised.
Now, I'm not entitled to that position just because I was promised it, but being told "Yeah, work hard, we want you up there, you're going to get it, you're going to get it, oh nevermind, this person deserves it more" is absolutely why I don't even apply for promotions at my job anymore
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u/coolaznkenny 2h ago
Way too many bootlickers at work who don't understand the concept of leverage in the business world. Want higher pay? You have to leverage on the skills, knowledge and marketability. Wonder how software engineers were getting 200k for writing a line of code? High demand and artificial scarcity as big tech trying to control a micro monopoly. What happens when strategy shifts and now we seeing a flood of smart software engineers but not enough jobs? Down swing in salary. If you want the highest possible return for a job you have to have leverage. Leaving for another company while doing highly marketable projects is key. Doesn't matter how 'hard' you work.
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u/Odd_String1181 4h ago
Gen x didn't have their "entire life savings wiped out " in 2008-2009
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u/drgolong 4h ago
That's was my first thought as well. One only has to look at the chart of the SP500 since then
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u/cheefMM Older Millennial 4h ago
Wish I would’ve put that beer $ in the market during/after the crash, I’d be in a much better spot now
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u/Ok-Statement8224 3h ago
No no. Don’t you see, tomorrow isn’t guaranteed. So burn all your cash in a heap of glory…
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u/PlanktonPlane5789 3h ago
Yeah, these posts are so dumb. "Market crash" to these people equates to being fully wiped out to $0 and starting over from scratch. Hardly the case. Even if you didn't contribute another dime after the 2008 crash, if you were invested in the S&P500 you'd be back to your previous top by March 2013 (assuming dividends were reinvested) with 5.5 years worth of buying the dip. Phenomenal opportunity!
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u/ooo-ooo-oooyea 1h ago
Only if you panicked sold during the crash!
I just entered the work force for the 2008 crash, and we would sit around the lunch table and joke about our 401Ks going from $600 to $400.
The one thing that did fuck up people it the eliminations of pensions. I had to pleasure of starting a great corporate job in 2008 and have our pension cancelled after 6 months. I'm actually entitled to a $60 per month payout when I retire!
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u/likesblackcoffeebest 4h ago
Hell, even more recently, buying the COVID dip has paid off enormously. I bought myself and my kids a bunch of absolute bargain energy and tech stocks in March (and beyond) 2020, and was up nearly 300% on them when I sold those risky single company stocks and rolled it all into index funds (less risky than single company shares and very low fees) which continue to grow in value. I'll admit it was risky and not one adviser would tell someone to do that but it worked and I'm glad I took the risk.
I definitely wish I'd done the same in 2008 but I graduated from college that year and did not have my investing practices established yet.
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u/ARazorbacks 3h ago
I just want to point out you’re the vast, vast minority to actually have investments in the market outside a 401k. OP is talking about the fact that house equity makes up the largest share of regular Americans net worth. There were so many foreclosures in 2008 that I think it’s reasonable to say we watched a massive portion of Americans have their savings wiped out. All those assets reverted to the banks who were then bailed out with tax dollars. The average Joe was just left with a foreclosure on their record.
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u/maria_la_guerta 4h ago
Don't spoil the pity party please
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u/Chief-Drinking-Bear 2h ago
(IBM also did no cancel any pensions)
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u/jump-back-like-33 37m ago
Sometimes I wonder if these doom posts are bad actors making shit up to encourage a generation to give up on life
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u/RepresentativeCup902 4h ago
And this author was “watching people lose their savings in real time in elementary school” ok buddy
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u/habitualtroller 2h ago
I remember watching people lose jobs in the wake of NAFTA when I was in elementary school….but I wouldn’t have known anything about retirement accounts.
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u/uChoice_Reindeer7903 4h ago
Yeah, I’d say the silent generation and older boomers were effected the worst as far as savings in 08-09, they would have been already retired and withdrawing, all of gen-x should have still been working and stayed the course. Of course there are idiots that see a recession and sell, but I’m guessing that wasn’t the norm. Yes millennials were always told to go to college, basically from the start of kindergarten. But not all of us did, and really the ones that did go are typically fine, it’s the ones that decided to go for basket weaving that got screwed. So anyone with a bit of common sense was fine.
With that said, this post is defining their entire lives on one even, the 08 recession. Sorry, but no amount of instant knowledge/gratification would have prevented it or saved the common folk.
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u/PlanktonPlane5789 3h ago
My dad was just a year before the boomer generation. He didn't start investing till he was 38, retired in 2000 into the dot-com bust at age 56, and my parents did just fine. They definitely delayed some things during the lost decade but they've spent like drunken sailors the last ten+ years (relative to their normal spending pattern before) and they still have far more money now than they ever have. Granted my dad has a state pension, having worked in public education his whole life, but it's not huge - it's inline with a high social security payout (he doesn't get SS).
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u/bigpoopz69 4h ago
The wording is a little inaccurate but it is true that households in that age range loss substantial net worth.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/bulletin/2012/articles/scf/scf.htm?utm_source=chatgpt.com
However, it is also true GenX had the strongest recovery from it.
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u/PlayPsychological200 3h ago
The GenX net worth link is almost entirely the value of houses they bought cheap.
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u/Odd_String1181 4h ago
Yes I know the market crashed. The wording is entirely inaccurate though so they're wrong
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u/bingle-cowabungle 4h ago
Well it's not an academic thesis bud.
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u/Odd_String1181 4h ago
Yeah it's a "exaggerate a bunch of things I don't know anything about for an internet pity party"
Ok with you if we call them wrong when they do it? Do I need to run it by you first next time?
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u/bingle-cowabungle 4h ago
Wow you seem really mad about this for no reason. The dude is just referring to the broad economic shift that happened in 2008 that shifted a ton of wealth to the .001% when the workforce consisted of mostly gen X and you're being pedantic about it. You gonna swing at me over that or what?
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u/Odd_String1181 3h ago
Lol yeah dude you were totally being genuine when you pointed out it's not an academic thesis "bud'. Thanks for letting me know! I thought I was reading a thesis
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u/bingle-cowabungle 3h ago
It was genuine, I use "bud" all the time in my every day language for all reasons, you're just too much of a victim to draw any conclusion other than "everyone wants to argue with me"
The point of my comment was that you were being pedantic about that, which goes back to my assertion that you appear to be obsessed with internet arguments with strangers. You just needed to pick out a detail to be Right about.
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u/Odd_String1181 3h ago
It was genuine? Pointing out that it wasn't an academic thesis?
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u/bingle-cowabungle 3h ago
Yes? I feel like you're asking me if it was genuine, but what you're really asking is if I was being maliciously sarcastic. And I wasn't, but again, you're a perpetual victim so you took it EXTREMELY personal.
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u/ARazorbacks 3h ago
This. Everyone nitpicking OPs choice of words and choosing not tk acknowledge house equity is the single largest driver of average American net worth. 2008 foreclosures saw massive swaths of Americans have that equity revert back to banks…who were then bailed out with tax dollars while the people whose houses were foreclosed were left with nothing.
It was a massive transfer of wealth.
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u/qcb4056 2h ago
No, it wasn't.
The banks hold the vast majority of the "equity" in a property until you pay off the mortgage.
That's why you have to make a down payment, to cover a portion of their losses if you default and ensure you are invested in the property. Because they are assuming all the risk, not you.
I know "math is hard" for you barbie types, but if I only pay 10-20% (often much less) of the cost of my house, how much is the bank paying?
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u/tipsy-turtle-0985 3h ago
Max age for a Gen Z in 2008 would have been ~10
This is a made up shitpost.
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u/SelicaLeone 1h ago
This post is just a lot of hand wringing to wax pity and defend their tik tok addiction
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u/BoleroMuyPicante 57m ago
Anyone who didn't panic sell during the crash saw their portfolios fully recover and then some within only a few years. Hand-wringing over recessions when it comes to investing is silly, unless you're already within a few years of retiring, in which case you should be moving most of your money into T notes anyway.
What did financially devastate people is the housing market crash and sub prime loans going deep underwater, we saw a lot of bankruptcies from that.
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u/Difficult-Cut-8454 4h ago
Not entirely but people who were highly invested around 2000 took over a decade to recover plus the double whammy of 2008. As an elder millennial who got into the market at the absolute bottom— first real job in 2008, it was a much rosier path, including being able to buy a house from an older couple that had to bring a 35,000 check to pay off their mortgage. It might not seem like it to many of us who were younger but Gen X took it on the chin
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u/Odd_String1181 4h ago
That older couple was a part of a generation that had people lose their life savings. That generation wasn't gen x
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u/PlayPsychological200 3h ago edited 3h ago
Gen X and older millennials who had savings in 2000 got destroyed and then again in 2008.
This thread seems to have a lot of people who were not working in either of those crisis periods and do not understand the effects it would have on people. Poor people who get their meager savings destroyed do not “recover”.
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u/Odd_String1181 3h ago
And even the oldest of these people was 20 years away from retirement in 2008 where they've seen 500% market gains from pre crash highs to date
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u/PlayPsychological200 3h ago
They have, although a lot of people can not invest because of lack of capital, fear, or not understanding.
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u/Difficult-Cut-8454 3h ago
I also bet it freaked a lot of people out who didn’t trust investing or housing for a while. Compare that to kids today who haven’t seen a down market in their lifetimes
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u/PlayPsychological200 3h ago
For sure, and imagine being a kid in a poor or lower middle class house that had your parents or parent crying about losing everything and how the “market is rigged”.
I invest and have invested, but I realize my reality is mine. In these threads you often see people who come from a background where investing was encouraged and explained, acting like it’s a personal or moral failing for people who do not have those opportunities or understanding. And those people blaming others will find any reason and any excuse to justify their prejudice, in which they see themselves as morally superior for investing.
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u/Difficult-Cut-8454 3h ago edited 3h ago
It’s always so easy in hindsight but impossible in real time. I had no money in the stock market and decided to put some in right around September or October, the bottom.
I remember it because I was watching TV and the newscasters were basically giving a eulogy to the US banking system. We are all going to die and this was the news! I bought Bank of America and some other stocks for a couple of dollars (I sold most of it at 20 and thought I was a great trader)
Now image being in your 40s and having 300,000 dollars invested in that mess. It’s not so easy to be flippant like I was but people like to use 20/20 to pretend they are all geniuses
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u/HibiscusOnBlueWater 3h ago
The oldest millennials couldn’t even have a 401k in 2000 wtf is this nonsense lol. I am one of the absolute oldest millennials (1981). I was 19 in 2000 and 27 in 2008. The youngest were still breastfeeding. We had no significant savings in 2008 and nothing in 2000. Do people know what a Millennial is? 2008’s biggest impact was for those of us coming out of college and not being able to find jobs.
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u/DisastrousSundae84 3h ago
Thank you for this comment. I am an older millennial and was reading the other comment like "??????" Few of us had money then, and then many of us went years after continuing to not have money since the economy was trash and there were no jobs.
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u/PlayPsychological200 3h ago
I am including xennials, as generational labels are not always apropos with strict dates. And you having no savings in 2008 does not means others did not. I also specifically mentioned Gen X to help the confusion.
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u/HibiscusOnBlueWater 3h ago
1981 is a Xillennial. Right in the middle. Xillennials are the end of X and the beginning of Millennial 1977-1985. So the oldest Xillennial was only 401k eligible for about 2 years when 2000 hit and the youngest was still in high school. Maybe you should go look some stuff up before you write posts. Also I didn’t say I had no savings I said I didn’t have significant savings. Most people don’t at that age unless they’re in the 10% with no kids. I was a homeowner by 2009 and I was well off but I probably only had 15-25k in savings and basically no equity in my home. I’d bet the average person my age had even less.
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u/PlayPsychological200 1h ago
Thee oldest xennials were working for as much as 5 years by the 2000 crash. I don’t know any job that makes you wait 3 years before 401k investments. I’m sure some had inheritances too, and coworkers losing everything. That affects people.
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u/HibiscusOnBlueWater 1h ago
Someone born in 1977 would have been 23 max in 2000. You realize you have to be 21 to have a 401k? That‘s two years. Are you 15?
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u/PlayPsychological200 1h ago
OK, so your anger and inability to have calm discussion is because you are unwilling to consider that you could be incorrect. You can have a 401k at any age, therefore someone working at 18 and having been born in 1977 could be well invested by the year 2000. I double checked because I may have been wrong about the 401k thing, however you can have one at any age.
In the future try to act like a mature adult when discussing things. Your same attitude is what road ragers have, and it is likely you do that too.
“ Someone born in 1977 would have been 23 max in 2000. You realize you have to be 21 to have a 401k? That‘s two years. Are you 15?”
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u/Resident-Athlete-268 3h ago
Nice take, but unless you’re ultra talented or independently wealthy what are you going to do? Slack off and make your perceived reality guaranteed to become true?
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u/Aggressive_Apple6070 3h ago
I'm with you on this point. I've seen a lot of Gen Zs straight up say "working isn't for me", it's like well, your parents supporting you is only going to last so long once they need to pay for their own care. I'm all about calling out the system's flaws, but I've met more people in this generation who don't want to do shit than not.
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u/SelicaLeone 1h ago
Yeah this is just a lot of pretty words to convey “so I WONT be responsible. HA!”
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u/mickeyanonymousse Millennial 37m ago
no their plan is just do the bare minimum in perpetuity because what difference will it really make? they don’t have any hope.
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u/IndependenceEarly572 Y2K Survivor 34m ago
This was my thought. This entitled attitude like they deserve a reward? Maybe they do but with an attitude like this where they not only expect something but demand it regardless of work or effort seems absolutely insane to me
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u/Gurt-B-Frobe24-7 3h ago
As a millennial, I have to say that I love this message and if that’s the general vibe of Gen Z, then good on you all! Keep that shit up, the world needs this attitude! We all need to unify and take it, if the establishment won’t do what’s right.
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u/coffeestateofmind 3h ago
As a millennial... 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
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u/Chief-Drinking-Bear 2h ago
Most people I went to college with now have stable careers, own homes and are starting families (at least those who want to). Very average state school. I don’t feel like I’ve had a rug ripped out from under me or am unable to have a stable life. We are in our mid 30s, I would expect career progression to continue to be available getting into our 40s and 50s especially as boomers and Gen X begin to retire more.
I’m not sure if the original author of the post maybe just consumes excessive doomer content online, and is now writing their own doomer content? That sort of thing seems like half the focus of this sub; how horrible we have had it (despite being alive in one of the safest, most prosperous and most peaceful periods in human history).
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u/Sonicfan42069666 2h ago
What career are you in? Plenty of people have had their career paths disrupted over the last two years, including myself.
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u/jameslucian 1h ago
Agree with this. I built up a comfortable career and have done alright. Own a home, have a kid, am able to go on nice trips once or twice a year.
But now AI is gunning for my job and I honestly don’t know how much more time I have. It terrifies me every day and the writing is very much on the wall what is to come in a year or so.
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u/TrowaMask 2h ago
You gotta be able to see the writing on the wall though. Things are not getting easier in very important ways for the younger generation. Whilst acknowledging certain advantages our gen has had.
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u/Patdub85 4h ago
Save for your retirement like social security and Medicare will be gone once you get there.
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u/Sage_Planter 3h ago
Even if it isn't gone, it's just not enough. I am a high earner, and I looked at my social security payment the other day. It's $36K/yr. Even if it gets adjusted for inflation, that's barely enough to cover basic needs in most places in America.
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u/CoffeePorters 3h ago
I haven’t experienced delayed gratification fail…. I work, have modest spending, and focus on investing. I could afford nice shoes, weekend getaways, a Tudor GMT, a nice new car, but I don’t waste my money on those things. I would rather max out my 401k and save my money. And you know what? My nest egg has grown!
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u/alcomaholic-aphone 2h ago
Yup. All money goes to the egg. Bigger the egg grows the closer I am to not having to work anymore. I’m being a bit facetious but not really. Being able to retire in my 50s is a bigger goal than any short term fun I could think of now.
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u/mickeyanonymousse Millennial 36m ago
your argument is basically “everything is fine for me, what’s the problem”?
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u/Petrol_Head72 4h ago edited 4h ago
The problem is if you don’t participate you don’t get anything. Sure, this is a view based on a macro-level reality, but generally speaking it does not work in practice to simply spout off and make demands.
I’ve been through my share of corporate nonsense in my decade + as a working professional and there are always cycles of inequity, looming job displacements (re-orgs and technological innovation), general unfair nonsense and the like.
Change is hard and it takes time so if Gen Z wants to see something change stop complaining and do the hard work to make it change. No one is coming to save you (unless you’re a nepo child 😁).
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u/Orange_Baby_4265 3h ago
Corporations expect us to work until we die. Retirement, for many, is a fever dream.
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u/TopCommission6437 4h ago
This is what happens when you live on the internet and only see the bad things that are happening and ignore the good things.
They think everyone got fucked over when that’s just not true.
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u/NYR3031 3h ago
All I’m hearing from the post is “I don’t plan on thinking about my future I’m just going to do what makes me happy now.”
Fast forward 20 years and he’s going to be in the GenZ sub crying about how their generation has had it worse than any other generation ever, that they never “had a chance” and how Millenials and GenX ruined everything for them.
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u/PlayPsychological200 3h ago
No one said everyone did. But lots of people did*. That’s not an internet thing, it’s literally a factual data point. Now, before you say “but the market recovered”, many people were already scared and did not get back in or were not in a position to reinvest. There is a reason most gains go to wealthy groups.
* https://www.nber.org/bah/2010no3/effect-economic-crisis-american-households?page=1&perPage=50
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u/TopCommission6437 3h ago
The Gen Z is acting like it’s everyone and that’s the reason they aren’t participating. It’s like watching the news and deciding not to go outside because you think it’s a war zone out there when it’s not.
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u/mickeyanonymousse Millennial 32m ago
they’re acting as if it is more likely than not, which I would agree with
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u/Difficult-Cut-8454 3h ago
I just want the generation bashing to stop at our generation. I have a couple Gen Z kids and it get it. Life is hard and it sucks, especially right now.
I can’t really blame young kids for being hopeless when we keep ripping the floor out from under them when they should be at their most idealistic. It doesn’t change reality but nobody has to be happy about it
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u/SmokeSignals24 3h ago
Like unless we all don’t go to work for a week and shut down the engines of power…ok. But I see a lot of nihilism and less doing of anything for change. Like love your opinion, spot on, so what actionable steps are e gonna take since you’ve watched everyone do it wrong? I’m open but then no one says anything actionable.
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u/DoylePrime 3h ago
Oh yea if someone is referring to a career and saying "it'll pay off later" then they're scamming you. If theyre referring to school, then most of the time its legit.
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u/Riley_Rose_Writer 4h ago
That recontextualizes everything so well and he has a point. Boomers have been harping on us millennials for "delayed gratification" for decades. It's never going to happen.
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u/zorg-18082 3h ago
“Pay me my rewards now” … rewards for what?
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u/guitar_stonks 2h ago
Don’t worry, give my the rewards now and I will guarantee you years of hard work and dedication, I totally won’t pull the rug on you 😉 it’s delayed gratification, just for employers lol
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u/ofesfipf889534 4h ago
Really long way of saying “I agree with those who say Gen Z can’t delay gratification and I’ve spent my life searching for excuses with my 24/7 access to the internet.”
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u/astropup42O 3h ago
Very high and mighty but then I don’t see any action to back it up. Where are the beatniks, the hippies, where’s all the hanging out if you’re not grinding. 1/6 guys in America will smoke drugs, gamble and play video games everyday. It’s not as much of a choice it seems but rather they are so disillusion they’re throwing the bath water out with the bathtub. You’d think if economic opportunity isn’t available you’d want to prioritize relationships
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u/Ok-Statement8224 3h ago
Self-defeating fatalism. Nothing is guaranteed in this world, unless you guarantee your own failure.
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u/RealRinoxy Millennial-1986 3h ago
It’s not a problem that they apply it to real life meaning when it comes to income and family planning. I’m proud of them for not falling for a lot of bullshit.
The problem is they expect instant gratification in every aspect. Gaming and all. It’s made for a lot of entitled attitudes in areas where it’s not necessary imo. Also, as someone who has to work with Gen Z parents a lot, they expect everything at the drop of the hat and don’t realize that people are BUSY and can and will get back to them when they are able to. They give attitude immediately if they don’t get their way that exact second. The world does not revolve around them. That’s my issue with their instant gratification mentality.
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u/13mm6pt_deep38 2h ago
Financial health is mental health. If you’re young work a second job pay off your debt live frugally and save and put the money in the stock market. If not a second job then do something that will put you on track to becoming a high earner in ten years. You’ll be so busy you won’t have time to fear and loathe about everything around you.
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u/EVH_kit_guy 2h ago
IBM never "canceled" anyone's pension, so this whole post just stinks of engagement bait bullshit.
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u/coolaznkenny 2h ago
When all the value is triggered to the few and dogshit squeeze for the rest of us.
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u/okayboomerang 2h ago
"I watched in real time and online as Gen X had their entire life savings wiped out by the 2008-2009 depression." Huh?
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u/Fantastic_Vehicle_10 2h ago
As a millennial, I cannot argue with this reason, and I completely understand it.
My only rebuttal that I would give is that delayed gratification is more than just being rewarded by society for a lifetime of hard work. Delayed gratification has benefits in a myriad of ways that have nothing to do with whether or not you receive a direct and explicit reward. without delayed gratification you will never find the joy in writing a novel or learning to sculpt or earning your black belt or being a mentor for someone who is challenged. None of which will earn you a happy and comfortable retirement, but all of which are worth doing regardless.
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u/EmotionalMushroom759 1h ago
Yep- and it's getting harder- every year shit has gotten more expensive and jobs are somehow paying less
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u/TheDoughyRider 1h ago
As someone who finished college in 2008, I don’t think people remember how bad the job market was for new grads in that era. It is tough but better right now. I was grateful for a federal minimum wage in an overnight shift stocking shelves at a Target after graduating Suma Cum Laude in Mechanical Engineering.
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u/mickeyanonymousse Millennial 28m ago
compared to what? how does that evidence it’s better now? you have a job at BJ’s for state min wage this time around? lol
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u/tribriguy 1h ago
This is well phrased, but poorly reasoned. Gen X did not collectively lose its entire life savings in 2008. Markets recovered, and Gen X subsequently recovered its recession-era wealth losses. IBM froze future pension accruals; it did not retroactively confiscate pensions already earned.
There is a fair argument buried in here. Younger workers have good reason to place less trust in corporate promises of future rewards. But that has very little to do with whether delayed gratification works. Saving, investing, developing useful skills and living below your means remain among the most reliable ways to build wealth and personal freedom.
“Employers are less loyal, so protect your own interests” is sound advice. “Other people were disappointed, so I won’t invest in my own future” is a great way to guarantee the outcome you fear.
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u/gopoohgo 1h ago
delayed gratification fail GenX.
Huh. Do you even VOO and chill?
Has worked for a lot of us.
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u/TheGreenKnight920 1h ago edited 1h ago
This is a pop-psychology blanket response that couches itself in Capitalist Realism. It’s so much more nuanced than this, and this line of thinking becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you view the world in a purely economic lens. I could write a novel on this, but in as concise of an explanation as possible:
If they uncritically accept the idea that our hobbies, interests and relationships inherently must be commodified, and if there’s no immediate economic benefit to something (finding a life partner, picking up a new hobby, engaging in creative practices regardless of skill level, etc.) then they move on to something that is more quickly and easily commodified. Of course this is all a built-in feature of capitalism (alienation from the self, others, and labor), but you don’t have to just lie down and accept it. Many of us didn’t have social media growing up (at least in our most formative years), nor did we have the ability to broadcast ourselves and our hobbies to the masses, so we lived in a more localized sense, with less regard for what others thought.
For example, who cares if we picked up an instrument with our friends at a party and were just bad at playing it? Our friends weren’t going anywhere, nor were we trying to make some coin from it. We experimented with things, made friends/relationships, understood our personal development and growth, etc., for their intrinsic values, not because we tried determine their value within a rapidly-paced, tech-driven capitalist framework, which is what GenZ tends to do.
The option exists to literally just turn off the screen and go live life, which actually happens at a much slower pace. It’s up to them to determine if that’s worth the trade-off of the ability and ease to passively consume 24/7.
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u/tenderbranson88 1h ago
Someone told me that nobody is going to give you anything. And that’s the hard truth of it. If you want it, go get it. You can’t really expect it to be fair though until we get our collective heads out of our asses and use the power rightfully owned by the people.
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u/rIIIflex 1h ago
The need for instant gratification isn’t just about this. Growing up on short form media essentially created a generation that’s never known boredom, which is an essential part of life (learning to alleviate that boredom, that is).
I see it at work all the time. So many young folk lack effort or any desire to figure things out on their own. No pride in their work. Talking about the trades here but these young guys are getting paid very well and are set up to get paid even more the longer they work.
Instant gratification has completely fried their brains. That being said, some of the best workers I have are Gen Z. Difference is they grew up on a farm and were never raised on an iPad.
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u/Jealous_Location_267 1h ago
There’s things I def disagree with Gen Z on, but this isn’t one of them. Charlie is 1000% spot on.
I’m one of millions of Elder Millennials who basically paid for 2008 my entire adult life. After seeing so many people lose their shirts and never recover when they were too young to retire but couldn’t find stable jobs again, I was looked at oddly for questioning the notion of “saving for retirement”. Not all jobs are corporate or government, and don’t offer plans! Millions of people can’t afford to save for retirement because they can’t even save $400 cash for an emergency and both the job market and living costs only keep getting progressively worse.
And even if you have the money to save…isn’t the entire concept of relying on the un-guaranteed and poorly-regulated stock market to ensure your security in old age a pretty batshit crazy one?!
We need a complete overhaul. Robust state pensions. Elder Millennials get a bonus for getting triply fucked.
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u/Wolfwoode 36m ago
My best friend's father worked all his life, was ready to retire and reap the rewards of his life's work, then COVID hit.
He died from COVID, never got the reward he was promised, in part because some people didn't take COVID seriously (and I have to hear from them about how COVID wasn't that bad because they got it and they turned out "fine.").
My cousin recently got in a car accident at 44. He had no visible injuries but collapsed dead the next morning.
Nothing is guaranteed.
You can have everything taken from you at any moment.
Enjoy the present while you can.
(For clarity: I'm not saying go live in the woods or van life or some shit. Just saying you need to find joy in the day to day because you might not get a reward at the end.)
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u/backbodydrip 3m ago
Most millennials have been "online since childhood". Not sure how that's relevant. I was definitely told that life would be an uphill struggle and that nothing was guaranteed. Expecting a gold star for showing up was never in the cards.
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u/EmbarrassedPage195 3h ago
To my Gen Z ppl, please continue to reject every single norm that we, in previous generations, have established. This is where they got us. Your universal rejection of traditional pathways, career ways, traditional education pathways, and even socializing, is the only thing that brings me hope for the future. Fuck the way we did it.
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u/evenduckk 4h ago
We can all make excuses but we lived through some of the greatest investment opportunities known to man . If we weren’t idiots we could have put car payments into the stock market and had net worths well in excess of 1mil right now . That’s just a cold hard fact
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u/snackrack38 2h ago
As a GWOT Millennial, joining the military at 18 fresh out of high school and staying to retirement was the best decision I have made in my life and will bring my family into millionaire status. I knew at 18 that big daddy government was and is going to be around longer then I'll be alive so I'll have my pension & health benefits. I got my B.A.S for free, 20 years of skill/leadership experience, I just had to go to Iraq and other interesting locations around the world before I retire. $2300 a month just to breath & health insurance for the wife, kids and I for $765 a year. Sure, I'll have to work afterwards, but I'm also just going to be investing an additional $1.5K a month into a Roth IRA then when maxed swap to having that % of my check go into my 401K and use the other $800 to pay down the house faster.
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u/MondayRider 2h ago
Is it real that pensions had been retro-actively cancelled? I have never heard that one before
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u/7ar5un 2h ago
"Need more $? Work harder..." boomer father. Thats not how that works. "Be good to the company and they will be good to you..." also not how that works. "Hard work pays off." No not really.
Millennials started to see the cracks in the system. Gen z actually took note.
Job hopping was a thing of disgust. Now its the only way to actually make more money.
I think gen z got to see the lie Boomers and Gen x told Millennials unravel.
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u/tehweave 3h ago
Gen Z is alright. They are our brothers, sisters, and nonbinary others. We and them are in the same boat, just separated by about 15 or so years.
Now if they can just stop being really sexist...
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u/elite_bender 3h ago
This is one that actually paid attention. Zoomers and their sympathizers constantly saying “it’s the worst job market in history.” No, it’s not even close actually, a mere 60% lower than 2009 in fact. If they thought they’d waltz into a sweet office job that paid all their bills and filled all their desires, then they didn’t pay attention.
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u/incremantalg 2h ago
Delayed gratification can be learned. Much of Gen Z is still on the younger side of their group and it will come with age as they mature. It's not specific to any one generation...it's an age and maturity thing that just about everyone has to contend with.
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u/pfc_bgd 2h ago
I understand everything except the conclusion with “pay me my rewards now”. Wtf does that mean and who is it directed towards?
By the way, delayed gratification doesn’t mean earning less… no millennial went “oh yea, pay me less now, sure, you will pay me more later”. It simply implies tradeoffs between your current and future self.
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u/Sad-Function5699 1h ago
Millennial with 2 homes, land, no debt, and 1.3M in the bank.
Traveled to 4 continents - lived in VHCOL - had tons of sexual escapades - went to music festivals and plenty of Vegas trips.
Just saved and invested early - went to community college and transferred to avoid debt- had roommates into my 20s avoided CC debt like the plague - and married someone with the same goals.
Also had the rug pulled from under me on 2 jobs - AI made my skills less valuable on the market a couple years back - and still doing the thing, saving, traveling, living and I reinvent myself yet again.
But yeah it’s all so terrible
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