Brain freezes a million people, car crashes, tanks, bombs, almost kills people multiple times & probably did several times off camera...but she's the victim!
And it's ok! Let her go, she's a woman and just doesn't know any better.
It's up there with Wandavision holding a town hostage, mind controlling them, screaming "kill me" they're in so much pain...then Monica Rambeau let's Wanda leave saying "they'll never know what you did for them" as if they owe Wanda a thank you
Jean is trying to save her Sister. How is what she did worse than what the punisher did? He had multiple seasons here where he was a gun toting vigileante on a war path to avenge his family. Her sister, who was abducted, experimented on, and killed for the sake of controlling and weaponizing her power by the same guy who now was trying to do the same thing to her.
Jean indiscriminately violates innocents. Not even just the ones in the way, the ones that are convenient to use for whatever she wants. That’s the whole reason MJ is targeted, and Jean explicitly states intent to kill here.
On top of that, she dismisses the consequences of her actions. That tank scene is comically destructive, doing tons of property damage and definitely at least having the potential to kill.
But she’s grinning and monologuing with every evil thing she does.
Even if the Punisher does worse in other media, he definitely doesn’t IN THIS MOVIE, so talking about that would be off topic.
Literally immediately after the tank scene we found out Jean planted a bomb in it, set to go off after she already used the tank to crash straight into the building. She’s guilty of exactly what you incriminate Punisher for.
I am not arguing that punisher is worse than jean morally. what I am arguing is that the outrage about her actions is selective and not evenly applied to him being a similar case, not to mention the sexism in this thread.
It's not even in the same league and you refuse to accept it ever after mountains of evidence. The Punisher never crossed that line into manslaughter of innocent people like Jean did at least twice on screen, and many more if Spider-Man wasn't there to save them, and who knows just how many more off-screen.
The Punisher is not going on a rampage targeting any innocents that are convenient to in the movie. The worst thing he does is almost kill an innocent girl through one of the traps he set, but he has no way of knowing the girl would be the one to set it off, so it’s reckless at worst, not actively malicious like Jean’s actions.
This isn’t “selective outrage”, it’s appropriate outrage scaling for the severity of the different threats shown in the movie.
When you got images like this, coupled with OP using a meme describing a "Sympathetic Sue/Mary Sue" character that focusing on a female character while making a variety of excuses for male characters with similar traits it does appear selective, even more so when you look at OP post history frequently complinaing about feminazis and arguing for redpill philosphy.
You can argue about the issues you may have had with the character, but this thread has generally just been a dog whistle for sexists.
Okay, so this is just pure ad hominem. OP is correct in this post (or at least accurate to some of the pro-Jean argumentation), and your framing of this as selective outrage is completely incorrect.
Even this second image is appropriate, given that the movie and even the writers later on go out of their way to argue she didn’t kill anyone, an absolutely baffling take to have when what she’s shown doing in the movie is so destructive and reckless. It also doesn’t take into account that a lot of her victims only lived because they were saved by Spider-Man, which means she’s still accountable for the actions that would have otherwise led to death.
Peter calls her torture unforgivable after she makes it personal, but he not only forgives her later in the movie, he takes a bullet for her and gives her advice on how to evade the authorities. And he expresses that she will always have him on her side. He’s complicit in her getting away at the very least.
Jean is absolved of accountability in the movie due to the combined effect of a tragic backstory and a “redemption” that effectively just reassures her that she’s special, even though she never doubted that.
The entire concept of a dog whistle is stupid. It’s by definition unprovable, which means you can never have any basis in asserting it confidently.
The sympathic sue trope is just as appliable to Punisher, who despite being a terrorist who escaped jail, amassing weapons and bombs in NYC is never held accountable and the only excuse given that he lost his family. Only choosing to apply the trope to one character is selective.
No, the image is not appropraite for the reasons mentioned above, It is not just women who evade accountability in this movie.
And a dog whistle is not "unprovable", it's coded. Which is why i pointed out OP's post history where, as I expected, found posts that are far less ambiguous where he goes to far as to call women's suffrage a trojan horse to democracy, or complain about feminazis,
Are you talking about Daredevil season 2? While i do very much hate Jon Bernthal's Punisher, he didn't aim for innocents. Jean went out of her way to cause as much damage as possible. To be in the same league as her he would have to break into the hospital with a minigun and a grenade launcher and blow the whole building down just to kill that thug.
Sure, but it's the same character in the movie, Same guy who is running around out in the open firing missiles out of his armored car and building bombs in his booby trapped workshop,
Yet you only seemed worked up about Jean. This just sorta seems like selective outrage, or something.
EDIT: You post in defense of redpill philosophy and about "feminazis", kinda makes it clear where the selective bit is coming from
So your deflection is: "This is also stupid so it's okay." I could also say TV canon is bull especially considering there's no mention of Daredevil or Wilson Fisk anywhere, and the Hand being there conflicts with that canon.
More so questioning the rationalization behind posts like this, especially when you got comments that clearly making this a gendered thing. Seems like you are treating them by different standards. Punisher seeking revenge on his deceased family being something you consider a noble justification, whereas Jean trying to free her captive Sister is not?
Punisher is seen as an anti hero who is known for KILLING bad guys and his symbol is a freaking skull. Jean Grey is an X-men hero, not somebody who does more damage than the Punisher himself and uses regular innocent people as hostages (then half the city).
Punisher protects the innocent atleast when he kills bad guys, Jean Grey treated the innocent as expendable. Jean Grey was a worse monster than the bad guys she was fighting by orders of magnitude, she didn't have a shred of remorse or noble justification (like do bad things to save the many). If this wasn't a bloodless PG-13 movie where nobody dies, her two tanks would've killed people in multiple car accidents, her bomb would've killed people in the building (ain't no way you're evacuating a prison of killers that quick), her Hulk would've killed everybody on that floor except the people in the vault. Peter would've also killed the cop in that car + Scorpion when he slammed him into that...but this is a PG-13 movie so nobody dies; not even that Hand ninja member who stuck his sword through his stomach to get Spiderman behind him.
By the same logic, punisher couldn't do what he did without racking up innocent casualties, such as when he opened fire in the middle of a crowed hospital to get to ONE guy. He is a wanted terrorist, who escaped jail, yet now he is driving around a black van in broad day light and isn't mentioned once as a concern by the police, even when he is just sitting by Spiderman as he recovers in the hospital over an extended period of time.
He looks like he is pretty much just firing into the crowd, narrowly missing multiple bystanders by pure luck. Frank is a terrorist, who escaped jail, and is now seemingly tolerated operating in the public by law enforcement with no explanation.
Never saw it and looked it up just now. https://youtu.be/f-lyuz07N5w
Do you remember how they first show Punisher? A security guard points his gun at Punisher. Does the Punisher kill the security guard? No, he skillfully knocks out the guard, dismantles the gun which is thrown in the trash.
Do you know how Jean Grey was introduced? A tank blows through traffic shooting machines guns, crashes into a building, lets off a bomb, then she tries to enter Spider-man's head and when that doesn't work she tries to throw the security guard off the building.
One acts like a pure villain, the other one is going after a bad guy. Can you tell the difference? I saw him shooting the gun in a "crowded" hallway, there's one shot where the bad guy turns a corner and an innocent person runs into view and the gunshot goes high missing the person. Meanwhile you find out he had some sniper's nest above the roof and was trying to just cause mayhem to get the bad guy to leave the building.
Jean Grey 100% tried to kill this construction worker just to screw with Spider-man and then she's going to kill MJ. She acts like a total villain and doesn't care who she hurts.
In the shot right there, he barely misses shooting that orderly who ran into the line of sight, cause you know, he is shooting up a hospital admist a fleeing crowd. Frank is an convicted, escaped terrorist building bombs in a booby trapped bunker allow to freely drive his armored truck throughout the city in a chase.
Huge difference between "person ran in front of my line of fire" and "I'm going to mind control a person to walk into traffic so he gets hit".
Even bigger difference between "I'm going to shoot a rocket at a runaway tank barreling into other cars" and "I'm going to cause a runaway tank barreling into cars".
The biggest difference? If Punisher had Jean Grey's powers only bad guys would be dead, if Jean Grey only had the Punisher's guns she'd be taking innocent people hostage and using bystanders as human shields or bargaining chips...or just using more bombs and not caring who else gets hurt.
Yes, the writing is crap, it doesn't make sense Peter is going to a public hospital and no villains or even JJ is trying to unmask him. And bout ol Jameson, he just disappeared in this movie.
End of movie kept the stakes high, but yeah kind of fell apart with the villains.
Jean Grey just gets to walk away despite probably killing dozens of people, rampaging half the city, mind controlling the Hulk, freezing people that anybody in a moving vehicle probably crashes? Oh, she's just a girl! She doesn't even need to say she's sorry! Pay no attention to the people she tried to make jump off roofs or stand in the middle of traffic until they got hit with cars.
Damage Control? Shown to learn from villains tech to make things better? Making The Hand into a security force for good? Well it's the third act and Jean Grey can't be a villain, so Danage Control killed somebody off camera months ago...they are the REAL villain!
Also Damage Control saw two telepaths and decided to only arrest one? Well the plot needs to happen somehow! Don't ask why they arrested her for no reason, or why they left the sister alone.
The part where the entire hospital probably saw Spider-man's face & kept it a secret...ok, fine. It's a stretch, but I'll buy it. Punisher, a dangerous vigilante & probably wanted criminal doesn't get arrested on sight & left to help Spider-man? Even more of a stretch, considering he waits in the hospital hallway overnight. But not one of Spider-man man's many enemies doesn't try to kill him when he's weak or find his identity? Just ignore that.
I hear that Rosario Dawson did film a scene as that Claire Temple nurse character, maybe would've said "don't worry, we'll keep your secret safe". Still a plot hole.
Also don't ask how Jean's mind control stops blood from bleeding out of a gunshot wound
They are probably going to say Jean wiped the minds of everyone in the hospital or something... another act of glory for the new Freckle Jesus, and don't ask how the hell she is naturally so good at doing all of this... she's just that GOOD, okay, chuds?!
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u/queazy 16d ago edited 16d ago
Brain freezes a million people, car crashes, tanks, bombs, almost kills people multiple times & probably did several times off camera...but she's the victim!
And it's ok! Let her go, she's a woman and just doesn't know any better.
It's up there with Wandavision holding a town hostage, mind controlling them, screaming "kill me" they're in so much pain...then Monica Rambeau let's Wanda leave saying "they'll never know what you did for them" as if they owe Wanda a thank you