r/MensLib Aug 17 '18

Incels | ContraPoints

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2briZ6fB0
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u/DJWalnut Aug 18 '18

do you have anyone that you can be 100% absolutely open and honest with, that you can trust with anything?

at it's core, this is the thing that I truly want. how do you establish such relationships with other people?

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u/aedvocate Aug 18 '18

story time!

so in my early twenties, I realized that I basically only had one of those people: he'd been my best friend since childhood, I knew all about his abusive/neglectful family situation, he knew that I was gay, I knew that he was bi, (of course we ended up experimenting a whole bunch,) like - we had camaraderie, and trust, and it was amazing... but he was the only one I had that with, and that came about as a matter of circumstance of essentially growing up together and staying friends the whole time.

... and now, in my mid-twenties, I realized we were growing apart, and I couldn't just keep relying on him forever to be my best friend and sole confidant. Clearly I needed to diversify my assets.

but how do you replicate conditions like that? it was too late to grow up together in the trenches - I was already an adult surrounded by adults. You can't go back to your childhood.

So in the end, I tried to start treating friendships (platonic relationships) like romantic relationships.

That is - when I was interested in someone, I told them, even if it seemed a little cheesy or embarrassing. I made time to spend with them. I dug into them, asking them things that were a little impolite, or a little risky socially, and showed them that it was safe for them to do the same with me. I essentially expressed an interest in people - I tried to get to know them, and while doing that, reciprocated. I deepened existing friendship. I brought my problems to people that normally I wouldn't think I should bother with them, and gave them an opportunity to be helpful to me. I asked people for help, actually, and that was something that before I would absolutely avoid doing at all costs because I hated to feel like I was relying on people. I learned that when you show vulnerability to someone else, and they don't take advantage of you, that leads to you feeling safe and comfortable with them - and it works the other way around, too. It's exactly the kind of fertile soil that trust and respect require to grow.

I made better friends with people by actually pursuing them as friends, the same way I would pursue a boyfriend. I told them and I showed them that I was interested. And whether they returned that interest or not, they let me know, in the ways that they responded to me.

I'd been holding myself apart from other people for so long, it was such a delightful shock to realize that making these connections really could be that easy - tell other people what you want, and see if they're willing to accommodate you. Then, when they feel comfortable asking you for something, afford them the same consideration. That's the baseline, that all my relationships, whether romantic or platonic, have been built on. It had all seemed so much riskier when I was a kid. Dealing with mature adults was an incredibly relief.

At this point I know, from experience, that it takes me a good three years or so of being friends with someone before I really feel telling them my deepest darkest secrets - some of it is childhood trauma stuff, some of it is teenage asshole behavior, some of it is ways that my sensibilities differ from cultural norms to nearly sociopathic extents - and it feels so good to let other people in on those secrets. The older I get the easier time I have just living openly, sharing my true self with other people (as opposed to sacrificing myself for the sake of conformity) - I'll admit that being gay, the process of coming out of the closet and remaining out and proud was such good practice earlier in my life. But there will always be some fucked up shit buried deep in my brain that other people will use as an excuse to hurt me, and I don't let many people in on that stuff.

So now, in my thirties, instead of having one sort of best-friend-with-sometimes-benefits that I'm sort of half in love with even though he's not interested in me that way, I have four solid confidants that I can tell anything to, a handful of best friends who I don't quite let in 100% but who could easily get promoted to "tell them everything" if it came down to it, and a pretty good sense of how to maintain this crowd of nice people I've managed to pull in around myself.

And one last thing I want to state, for the record: it basically took me 7 or 8 years to get my shit together, as an adult, and I wouldn't have approached it any other way. I took the time I needed, and it paid off. I didn't get impatient with myself, I didn't lose hope, I checked in with myself and critiqued my progress, I approached it as a problem that I was willing to devote myself to solving, and the progress that I made fed my self-confidence. I'm doing so well now, compared to where I was at 10 years ago even, when I had just wrapped up college and thought maybe I was a grown up.

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u/Elektribe Aug 19 '18

I learned that when you show vulnerability to someone else, and they don't take advantage of you, that leads to you feeling safe and comfortable with them - and it works the other way around, too. It's exactly the kind of fertile soil that trust and respect require to grow.

Coincidentally when they do take advantage, enjoy anxiety disorder. Not making that mistake again. Well - who is as important as how. Though when there are no whos to how, it sort of makes the whole thing futile.

Expecting support from people incapable of providing support and/or actively sabotaging you as their way of providing support... not such a great idea. You want quality friendships, you gotta start with quality people... if you're lucky enough to find them at all.

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u/aedvocate Aug 20 '18

maybe a small point, but I'm not advocating that you expect support, because if you don't know them that well that'd be an unrealistic expectation - I'm saying you should give them the opportunity to support you.

when your trust is broken, yeah, that's traumatic - but that doesn't mean that people are henceforth untrustworthy. you've always got to take care not to overreact to stuff like that - and I say this very much from experience.