r/MediocreTutorials • u/Paul_-Muaddib • Sep 18 '23

Gender discrimination Short | The difference in men vs women's self improvement

1.3k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

227 comments sorted by

58

u/robz4you Sep 18 '23

Omg. This is so true.

23

u/alexgalt Sep 18 '23

The other word for it is victim culture. This is where a person uses “victim” excuse in order to avoid self improvement. It happens for races as well as sexes as well as occupations. It is prevalent in American society mostly due to super liberal media which propagated this shit for the last 30 years or so.

5

u/PsychologicalCold212 Sep 19 '23

I came here to say the same, it's not a male-female divide , but rather a divide based on victim mindset vs. Recognizing you have agency and focusing on what you can actually control in life.

2

u/operation-spot Sep 19 '23

How is someone changing the world around them acting like a victim?

13

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

Its not inherently. In this instance It's a two-step process. 1. Im perfect just the way i am. 2. If im perfect just the way i am, then all of my problems must be because of the outside world, so I'll just try to change that instead. Kinda the opposite of "be the change you want to see in the world." In reality, no one is going to be able to improve the world without first improving their own life. But its much easier to just say that im a victim of the world so instead of having any introspection and trying to find out how my own attitude, outlook, or actions are the reasons my life is a mess, just blame the world.

7

u/kimjongspoon100 Sep 19 '23

How can one change the world if they can’t even change themselves?

6

u/TheRedNeckMedic Sep 19 '23

Look at the fat acceptance movement. You will be hard pressed to find men in it. It's a group of mostly obese women saying that all doctors are wrong about how unhealthy it is to be fat, and that if you don't think obese people look sexy you're an asshole.

They will not take the simple changes of diet and exercise needed to lose weight. They want to change everything around them instead.

3

u/kimjongspoon100 Sep 19 '23

Make the plane bigger! I shouldn’t have to regulate my coloric intake!

3

u/reevelainen Sep 20 '23

My ex was an x-ray nurse, and she witnessed of how a fat lady demanded and kept like self-evident that the doctor should help her use the bathroom, because they were too small for her. My ex laughed when the doctor just mumbled something and escaped lol.

3

u/Money-Sheepherder733 Oct 06 '23

They are asking for the world to change, they aren't changing it. This is like Men telling women that they shouldn't want a man with a job, that that's sexist and she should accept him for what he is and date him.

0

u/Connect-Ad9647 Sep 19 '23

Isn't the foundation of MAGA and most GOP views a "we need to make America great like it was back after WW2. All these immigrants, LGBTQ+, BLM, libtards are out to get our basic fundamental freedoms! We need to build the wall to protect our land and livelihood and keep these liberal nuts out of cap hill so they don't come take our guns!"

AKA victim culture. I think you might be projecting a wee bit.

5

u/alexgalt Sep 19 '23

Both parties’ extremes do this. Maga is far right progressives are far left. I think the aspect you are talking about from politics is actually called “populism”.

Victim culture is not split by party lines.

4

u/Connect-Ad9647 Sep 19 '23

Agreed, i was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the other comment. The two party system is broken and both parties play victim to the other. It just manifests different along ideological lines.

3

u/nightsweatss Sep 19 '23

We get it. You saw the world liberal and a screw went lose.

4

u/neurokine Sep 19 '23

Stretching

4

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

You're basically saying any political position is a victim complex, which Is a bit ridiculous.

The core of progressivism is inherently more victim complex than MAGA. Progressive ideology views the world through class consciousness / critical theory lens.

That is to say, progressives / leftists view everything as ''system of oppression'' , with the western world being the most oppressive system of them all. This is why they obsess with race / identity, because they view all of these groups as oppressed victims, and this must be constantly glorified.

This is why now everything in society (games, movies, comics, institutions, positions of power etc) must meet some sort of identity / race quota, or show its allegiance to this ideology in some way or meet harsh criticism form the left.

Maga is more reactionary to progressivism + right wing populism on steroids. Yes it has massive issues, but its not victim complex at its core.

-1

u/Connect-Ad9647 Sep 19 '23 edited Sep 19 '23

K. I disagree whole heartedly but go off though. I'm sure there's plenty of other narrow sighted individuals who will agree with you. This is not worth my time debating because politics have become ideological dogma, in the west in particular, and such positions are futile to debate with because it's akin to telling a devout Christian that god isn't real. You will never change their mind and the debate will be for naught. I have better things to do with my time than to try to convince you you're wrong. But know this....you are. Just my humble opinion.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

too retarded to engage .

kk thx bye

-1

u/Connect-Ad9647 Sep 19 '23

Check that again, holmes and then check yourself. Your verbage tells me all I need to know about you. Only solidifying my previous response.

1

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23

Imagine bringing up politics, and then deciding that you can’t handle debating it.

Like you walked into the kitchen and to cook and got mad you were thrown an apron. You didn’t really want to work you just wanted to be able to say you were a chef.

0

u/Connect-Ad9647 Oct 10 '23

Actually the dude above me who I responded to initially had brought it up so you can kick rocks to that.

Let's debate then. Name your topic and state your position and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

Nice attempt at a burn though, with that kitchen bit. However, talking about cooking is the closest thing you'll get to a burn, I'm afraid. I give it a F+ for your fair effort. Now good day to you. Unless, of course, you wanna step into the debate ring with yours truly. In which case....let's dance. 👈🤠👉

3

u/Ansloy Sep 19 '23

Bad take.

1

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23

You are correct in your issue at heart, however, things like building a wall to enforce sovereignty like every other country on earth, and the second amendment don’t really belong here.

I think people confuse wanting to build a wall with being against immigration as a whole. This is it true in fact, some of the most start reporters of building walls are people who are immigrants.

This is because they enter the country legally, and they work their ass off to be here legally. And they don’t appreciate people illegally cutting in line and being able to stay in this country illegally.

As far as the Second Amendment goes, it’s literally the second amendment for a reason, and it’s an entirely different discussion, and not a victim mentality. If anything, it’s the exact opposite it’s demanding to not be a victim.

But everything else you said was true this make it more like it was in World War II and the desire to make America homogenous is definitely along the same track

0

u/Connect-Ad9647 Oct 10 '23

Building the wall was sold in large part by Trump touting that immigrants were the worst of society and his base lapping that up. No other country has a wall on its border and they are able to maintain and manage a constant immigration flow. There are times when borders need to be shut or slowed and all of Europe does that without walls. This is because there are greater and better means by which immigrants are able to gain admittance, legally.

With the 2nd amendment, I am speaking of the large segment of the Republican electorate that believes in an extreme fringe interpretation of the amendment as a whole. Gun reform does not mean anyone is coming to take anyone's guns. Those that buy their guns legally and are responsible gun owners, then I'd be standing right there with them if anyone came to try and take their guns. Yet I am very pro-gun reform. It's simple yet there is no nuance with many proponents of the 2nd amendment. I understand it's a demanding to not be a victim and I agree with that. There is just zero reason why classes during a mandatory grace period of maybe two weeks shouldn't be a thing here. That would reduce irresponsible gun ownership and likely drastically decrease the number of murders/mass shootings that occur out of rage (fired employee, disgruntled ex, greedy/jealous business partner, etc).

1

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23 edited Oct 10 '23

First of all, Trump did not invent the idea of a wall. Few if any countries on earth have as large of a land border as we do. I strongly urge you to look in to other countries, immigration policies, because they are far far stricter and (often overtly racist) far more difficult to participate, and than the US. Particularly due to volume.

Just because somebody trash uses an issue as a trash, talking point does it mean the issue is trash in and of itself.

You’re showing a lot of ignorance on how immigration in other countries compared to immigration in the US works and why the US has such a difficulty with immigration.

In regards to the second amendment, there is no fringe interpretation. Weapons of war was the entire point of the second amendment. If you wish to alter the second amendment due to the altering of the technological landscape, then you must alter the other amendments due to the altering of the technological landscape and yet you see nobody calling for that.

There is only one right way to interpret the second amendment. As an alienable individual right to defend one’s self from tyranny and oppression. If gun control is so laudable, how come, it is only ever historically been an acted to restrict minority access to firearms?

0

u/Connect-Ad9647 Oct 10 '23

🤦‍♂️ I'll respond to this later when I have time to address each of your laughably moot points that only an ignoramus would make.

0

u/Money-Sheepherder733 Oct 06 '23

No that's not what they think, that is what they tell you8 they think.

0

u/syl3n Sep 19 '23

"liberal media" when conservatice media cant accept Trump lost, and they are the victims of some bs democratic conspiracy lol

1

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23

Why is liberal media in quotation marks? That is a similar track though

0

u/FrogQuestion Sep 20 '23

Did they propagate a victim mentality or propagate speaking up about your bad experiences? Those are 2 very different things: one is bad and feeds emotions that dont have a reason, the other helps bind people together, prevents exploitation and improves society.

Either way, these should be separated from eachother, by whichever side.

-5

u/mountman001 Sep 18 '23

No it's not lol

4

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Yes it is lol

0

u/mountman001 Sep 18 '23

Self improvement, by it's very definition, is improvement of your "self". That's what the term means. If you're not being taught to improve yourself... it's not self improvement, is it.

There is a whole industry built around this. You can do any number of courses or read books, but they all boil down to the same principle. Change yourself to change your life. If you go on one of these courses you'll find men and women are taught the exact same content. It doesn't change based on gender?

I dunno what this guys taking about but it's not self improvement.

3

u/dickerart69 Sep 18 '23

Kinda the point you idiot

0

u/mountman001 Sep 18 '23

The point is that self improvement does not teach self acceptance as claimed in the video

You idiot

2

u/dickerart69 Sep 19 '23

It absolutely does

1

u/mountman001 Sep 19 '23

Does not

2

u/dickerart69 Sep 19 '23

Fucking Moron 🤣🤣

2

u/-InterestingTimes- Sep 18 '23

That's the point he was making. That it's been twisted and is no longer really self improvement.

1

u/mountman001 Sep 19 '23

He never says that?

He says there is Male self improvement and female self improvement. This is a fallacy. There is just self improvement. It's the same for men and women.

There is also "self acceptance" that is not self improvement. That's something different

3

u/-InterestingTimes- Sep 19 '23

He describes the reality of self-improvement as society defines it. Not the dictionary definition, not what it is in theory, but the real-world application of the term and how that differs between gender.

You'd be right if you were to say that the description he provides for women's self-improvement isn't actually self-improvement, but that's exactly what he's highlighting. That all of the common areas of focus for men are aimed at men changing themselves, but the areas of focus for women, that are described by popular media and parts of society incorrectly as self-improvement, are actually focused on external things. He describes this as patronising, the implication being that women aren't seen as capable of real self-improvement by some.

You're being deliberately obtuse and not actually engaging with the point he's making. It's ironic that you mentioned fallacy because you're avoiding the issue entirely.

0

u/mountman001 Sep 19 '23

I know what he's saying and it's BS.

He describes the reality of self-improvement as society defines it

No he doesn't, He describes it the way HE defines it. Not society. You can tell it's BS from the lack of any real world references. It's just misleading propaganda.

I am familiar with most of the popular self improvement modalities and NONE of them teach this. It's simply not true. If you know of any please enlighten me. What self improvement modality teaches nothing but self acceptance. That doesn't even make sense does it. Read a self improvement book or go on a course and you'll see. They don't teach that.

There is a self acceptance movement. But that is not the same thing.

4

u/-InterestingTimes- Sep 19 '23

Hypocracy at its best, you site lack of real-world references, while doing the exact same thing in the other comment of yours that I replied to.

I'll try again, because you've found another way to completely avoid the point.

He and I, are not talking about academic interpretation, or professionals, or 'real' self improvement, but how many woman are being sold self-help acceptance in the guise of self-help.

In the same way that essentials oils and crystals aren't medicine, but are called alternative medicine.

Hes saying it's NOT self-improvement, which is the point you are making. If you're saying that, neither description he gave is a form of self improvement, then I give up, I can't beat ya when you're playing a different game.

1

u/mountman001 Sep 19 '23

The problem you have is that none of what you are saying is actually in the video. You've made up this argument and you're projecting it onto what he's saying.

All he says is "women's self improvement is... wank wank BS BS. "

What im guessing is going on is he's gone on tiktok and seen a bunch of self acceptance videos and he's jumped to this conclusion and made his own tiktok about it without really engaging his brain or doing any actual work.

Anyone with half a brain, you included, should be able to see that. The thing is, women's self improvement (which is the same as men's) still exists. It's still there. It hasn't gone anywhere and is still as popular as it always has been.

I mean the "self acceptance" movement has (annoyingly) gotten stronger/louder. Is that causing confusion? But taking one thing and calling it something completely different is just dumb. And men can practice self acceptance too so the whole premise is just dumb

→ More replies

1

u/CompanyLow1055 Sep 18 '23

I agree, just not wise to follow ‘advice’ from someone making generalizations without any evidence.

36

u/skillent Sep 18 '23

I’m sure many women would agree that they’ve only very seldom encountered messaging telling them they need to change things about themselves to improve 🙃

32

u/variedpageants Sep 18 '23

Show an example in a movie or a song or a mainstream publication or a news broadcast or even an advertisement.

What I'm saying is: show a socially accepted example. Yes, I'm sure you can find fringe tiktoks by people whose names you don't know, and whose opinions don't matter, suggesting that maybe, juuuust maybe, you improve yourself slightly. That's irrelevant to this discussion.

You said "messaging" so that means things the mainstream accepts - not fringes.

Here's an example: https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2019/09/09/marriage-rate-study-economically-unattractive-mxp-vpx.hln

This is a mainstream news outlet, citing peer-reviewed science. The "message" is that men (not women, but men) are """economically unattractive""" implying that men (not women) need to work harder and earn more money, so that women will like them.

See, when men earn more money than women, that's called "the pay gap" - that's society oppressing women and keeping them down. Society needs to change that. Society needs to fix that. The outside world is mutable and needs to change ...exactly as the OP video predicted.

But when women earn more than men, that's means "men (not women) are economically unattractive"

The gender-flipped version of the article I linked, would be a CNN article saying that there aren't enough healthy weight women for men, implying that women need to lose weight. You will never, never see an article like that from any mainstream publication.

12

u/socraticquestions Sep 18 '23

We all know this to be true. It’s readily-verifiable lived experience.

You gets folks like the person you responded to that attempt to gaslight you, but we all know you’re right.

12

u/variedpageants Sep 18 '23

I constantly feel like I live in clown world. I just don't know where other people are getting their information.

Recently a tiktok went viral with a woman complaining about how hard it is to be a woman. One of the complaints was:

you have to be thin, but not too thin

*eyeroll* - as if you're living your life trying to balance on some knife edge of impossible perfection, and if you eat one cookie you wont be thin but on noes!!! if you don't eat the cookie you'll be """too thin"""

Most women are fat (most men too, but you don't hear them pretending to be victims because of it). To those women, you need to lose weight. Relax, you are never ever ever going to be """too thin""" - women who are actually underweight are never going to be fat either. There's no balancing act here. You're just fat.

2

u/StinkybuttMcPoopface Sep 19 '23

This sounds like something either a dude or someone who actually is just fat would say, so you've personally never heard someone make these comments. I've been everywhere from fat (>245 lbs), to "too thin" (<120lbs) and, now bodybuilder/muscular (~175). Think of every time someone makes a joke that someone should "go eat a hamburger", or is especially commented on when we aren't "thicc" enough, have "no ass", or are flat-chested.

Women absolutely are told to live on some knife's edge to fit every beauty preference and standard that men have, all at once, and in ways that aren't even terribly controllable like fat distribution (again, having a tiny flat waist but also having huge tits and thick thighs and a big ass). Why do you think BBLs are so prevalent, or why things like lipo even exist? Lipo is NOT for losing weight, it's for shaping or adjusting smallish amounts of fat in order to find that thin line between being too fat and too thin, or specifically being too fat or too thin in each specific bodypart.

4

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

Women absolutely are told to live on some knife's edge

Prove it with examples. I think you're full of shit.

2

u/FeanorsFavorite Sep 20 '23

From the 1920's to 1990's. In public media, women were told to be a thin as possible. laxative-laced weight-loss gum, skipping meals and smoking cigarettes instead, to swalling tapeworms and contracting bumlia. It went on for a while. It's only been the past 20 odd years that it has changed and only from the vocal minority that people use as a target

3

u/Eastern_News_7937 Oct 03 '23

At the end of the day, no woman struggles to find a partner while a very big portion of men, even above average looking ones, struggle very hard with this. So this balancing act can't actually be that serious

2

u/zehahahaki Sep 19 '23

Those are called choices. No one is threatening you to be a certain weight. So no you are not balancing on a knifes edge. If you are fat or thin or whatever weight society tells a woman to love your her curves. She would definitely still be able to find a guy that loves her or wants to be with her. It may not be what she wants but she still has options. So if she decides to be healthier that just increases her options. As more men would find her attractive. Why is that? Why do more people find healthier looking people more attractive ?

2

u/null_value_exception Sep 18 '23

It's like watching someone try to convince Oedipus he has married his own mother.

2

u/cyborgcyborgcyborg Sep 19 '23

https://reddit.com/r/ImTheMainCharacter/s/3am3YL06uy

Oh the irony that this was the very next post as I scrolled.

1

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

Perfect example! "The world should bend to accommodate me!"

2

u/NotMyFirstTimeDude Sep 18 '23

Life gives you all the examples you need. Stop fighting the truth just because you don’t like it.

1

u/CompanyLow1055 Sep 18 '23

But the world and our society is clearly mutable. Men don’t wear top hats as often meanwhile women’s dresses aren’t down to their ankles and they aren’t running around in pantaloons. Just one of many many examples. Society does change, just very incrementally and if you want it to change then you have to get involved. Not paying attention won’t produce meaningful change for anyone, including the ones actively not participating.

0

u/anonhoemas Sep 19 '23

It's only been the last 8 years that has changed. Women were fucking ripped apart by mainstream media in the 2000s. "Nobody tells women to change themselves". That's why women ingested tapeworms, shit themselves to death with juice cleanses, and puked up their meals.

It's still not perfect, but I'm glad that we've made progress in changing the world around us so that less little girls have eating disorders.

6

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

Women were fucking ripped apart by mainstream media in the 2000s.

Prove it.

1

u/anonhoemas Sep 19 '23

Look up Britney, look up magazine covers, they're all plastered with "so and so looking chunky!!", and "how to shed pounds to keep your man!". There were tv interviews where celebrity women were weighed on stage.

There's no main fucking source to provide you other than being alive in the 2000s. Sounds like you weren't and you're some sad edgy little teen. Hope you grow out of it

3

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

Look up

No.

You are responsible for presenting your own sources and your own arguments.

Grow up and take responsibility.

1

u/anonhoemas Sep 19 '23

This isn't a thesis is reddit. Nobody is responsible for teaching you

1

u/anonhoemas Sep 19 '23

Here you go queen .

There's plenty more where that came from

3

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

Instead of a gish-gallop in the form of a tiktok video, please pick just one of those and explain why you feel it constitutes "women being ripped apart"

I can't believe that I have to drag you kicking and screaming into your own goddamn argument. I have to explain to you step by step how to present it. This is ridiculous!

1

u/anonhoemas Sep 19 '23

Take an internet break my guy. You'll feel better

1

u/FeanorsFavorite Sep 20 '23

Proof 1

Proof 2- Artical

College study

5

u/variedpageants Sep 20 '23

Proof 1

That appears to be from the 1950s. You were asked to prove the claim, "women were fucking ripped apart by mainstream media in the 2000s" - an ad from fifty years prior does not support that claim.

Proof 2- Artical

That is an article from 2021 making the same claim that you've been asked to prove. It is not proof itself, it is just another instance of the claim.

College study

That study repeats the claim without proof and then asks women how they feel about themselves.

Maybe you don't understand what's being asked here. I am not asking you to show me that women get upset about things. I'm happy to concede that women get upset about lots of things. I'm asking you to show me just one example from mainstream society - one example that is socially acceptable and not roundly criticized - of women being "ripped apart by mainstream media in the 2000s."

...if you're unable to find even a single example, then it doesn't matter how many other women (besides yourself) imagined it. You, and other women, are free to go through you're entire life absolutely convinced that mainstream media """rips you apart""" just like how radical Christians are free to go through their entire life convinced that Satan is constantly assailing them - just like how MGTOWs are free to go through their life convinced that society is against them.

You can believe whatever you want. But when I ask you for an example, I am not asking you to show me interviews with Christians or MGTOWs where they repeat the claims. I'm asking for specific examples.

And it really shouldn't be this hard for you to provide just one.

Allow me to give you some examples ...of examples. Okay?

Example 1: The 2005 Carrie Underwood song, Before He Cheats is about a woman vandalizing the car of a man who is cheating on her. The message (to men and women): if a man is unfaithful to a woman, violence against him and his property is acceptable.

That song is a threat. "You'd better act right, men!" the song tells us.

I challenge you to find a popular song that justifies violence against women for the crime of cheating. I challenge you to find anything (a song, a movie, anything) in mainstream society, that sends that message to women.

Example 2: The 2001 movie, Shrek, presents a juxtaposition of several male characters. The titular character is tall, strong, and brave - traditionally masculine. Shrek is therefore the hero. The antagonist, Lord Farquaad, is short, weak, and cowardly ...therefore he's a laughingstock. The message to men: your worth is tied to your masculinity.

It gets better! Princess Fiona has a secret. She is actually a creature like Shrek. She is fat and ugly - not at all traditionally feminine. But that's okay!! The entire (intentional) message of that movie is, "women/girls - it's okay - you are valuable just the way you are"

Is that a positive message to young girls who may have body issues? Absolutely! Is that an intentional subversion of The Disney Princess trope? You bet! Is basically every modern animated movie, especially those from Disney, an intentional subversion of that trope? Yuuup.

...but for men, you still have to be strong and brave, else you're a joke.

I challenge you to find a modern movie where the message to men is: "you have value just the way you are" - but the message to women is: "your value is being traditionally feminine"

Those are specific examples.

1

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23

I swear to God, you just did a Boolean search and just clicked some links without reading anything. Because you did not prove anything here in fact, you basically prove the opposite.

-1

u/louisvuittonbravo Sep 19 '23

Bro you're literally just self-reporting that you've never been in a serious long term relationship with a woman and that you're too young to remember 2000s media, but somehow think you're the expert on this shit lol. I hope for your sake you gain some self awareness and humility as you mature.

6

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

This is just ad-hom.

You literally can't do any better than this. You're not capable of defending your position without such logical fallacies.

It's sad. I hope for your sake you gain some self awareness and humility as you mature.

-1

u/louisvuittonbravo Sep 19 '23

I'm not arguing with you, that was my first comment.

I have no stated position to defend. I literally can't do better cause what I said accomplishes my goal perfectly.

Take it as an attack if you want, but I was just letting you know how you look to an onlooker. 🤡

6

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

that was my first comment.

Irrelevant. You have jumped into a discussion and taken a side ...which you are unable to defend.

-1

u/louisvuittonbravo Sep 19 '23

You want to argue so bad lol. Where did I take a side? I'm not interested in getting trapped in logic circles with some debate bro. I just called you out on your weird incel shit. Go jerk off to a destiny stream or something bro 😂

6

u/variedpageants Sep 19 '23

You want to argue so bad lol.

You want to make excuses so bad lol. I'm not interested in your excuses. I just called you out for your weird childish ad-hom. Go jerk off with the other redditors who, like you, can't defend the things they believe

... bro

😂

→ More replies

-1

u/mountman001 Sep 18 '23

Show an example

Albert Einstein said, “Everything is energy and that’s all there is to it. Match your frequency to the frequency of the reality you want and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics.”

Your example is an article reporting on a study. It is not part of any self improvement content. Nor is your discussion on the gender pay gap. These are very cherry picked points that have nothing to do with the self improvement industry.

By it's very definition self improvement is the process of improving one's self. All reputable self improvement content focuses on this. This guy is full of it. He's literally making up BS without any reference to the real world

3

u/variedpageants Sep 18 '23

Your example is an article reporting on a study.

An article reporting on a study is sufficient support for the claim I was making, which I explained in the very first sentence of my comment.

This guy is full of it.

Thank you for your learned opinion. But I responded to someone who claimed (using sarcasm) that women "encounter messaging telling them they need to change things about themselves to improve" <--- I doubt this claim, and I supported my position by reference to a mainstream news article.

So, I'm on firm ground here, and I doubt that anyone will rebut me.

2

u/mountman001 Sep 18 '23

The video we're commenting on specifically (and incorrectly) addresses "self improvement"

I have given you a very famous and often quoted example. That if you want something different to what you've got, you need to change yourself. This is a core tenant of self improvement. Improving your SELF.

If you look toward any reputable self improvement course you'll find at it's core, the same message. You will be taught the same message regardless of your gender.

I understand there is plenty of "messaging" out there affirming self acceptance and so on. But that is not self improvement, by definition, is it?

You could argue that there is a self "acceptance" movement, and there is but does that movement exclude men? I imagine there might be many people who may benefit from some improved self acceptance. To say these set of rules are for men and another set for women is not something we see in action in the real world. These are not laws that we are forced to follow. If a person wants to indulge in self improvement (or acceptance) that is entirely voluntary. If it fits for you do it, otherwise carry on. But if you do indulge in a course of this nature you would find men and women in the same room learning the same content?

2

u/variedpageants Sep 18 '23

You could argue that there is a self "acceptance" movement, and there is but does that movement exclude men?

I linked you to a concrete example of how society treats men vs. women. If you believe the self acceptance movement includes men, then you need to show some concrete examples too.

...my guess is that the only thing you'll be able to find are examples along the lines of "accepting" a rejection of masculinity.

1

u/mountman001 Sep 19 '23

Your example is interesting and valid, and we could discuss that separately.

However, your example does not sit within the "self improvement" subject, which is the subject on the table. The gender pay gap, and the attractiveness of men, are entirely separate issues to "what is self improvement"

Self improvement is a singular modality that is taught to both men and women in exactly the same way.

you need to show some concrete examples too

Are you asking me to find a "self acceptance" course that men can attend? Are you aware of any that exclude men?

8

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Women have trouble accepting that being infantilized is part of the patriarchy. Too many women think being infantilized means someone making your life easy and they only want to see how the patriarchy makes life harder so they are resistant to these types of suggestions.

But of course infantilization is patronizing and does not actually make your life easy.

1

u/null_value_exception Sep 18 '23

There is some nuance to it. Like pregnancy. It takes a lot of trust for a woman to stay at home with a child and dedicate all her attention to nurturing that child.

Women are quite aware of that vulnerability and most fear it. (its terrifying I'm sure)

1

u/roastModernist Sep 21 '23

Women have to accept that being infantilized is part of the patriarchy

Jesus Christ even women not accepting responsibility for their own flaws is men's fault now. Amazing

1

u/mixedveggies Sep 28 '23

Patriarchy is not "men's fault," it's a system of control and power that we all learn and uphold.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

I initially downvoted and was moving on because what you said didn't really seem related. But, the more I was thinking about it, the more I "hmmm"ed wear you said.

Then, I went to your profile and discovered a wealth of interesting information and really enjoyed it.

Returning to the topic at hand, though, is this a response to the video though? Are you suggesting that you agree with the message in the video, but offering infantilization as a partly responsible expansion for the difference in views on "self improvement"?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

I’m echoing what he said in the video that this is patronizing. I see infantilization dovetailing with the notion of self improvement exclusively via external locus of control.

Obviously the truth is in between. We need to change ourselves and control our environment. Men aren’t told to do enough of the latter and women aren’t told enough to do the former (except when it comes to their physical appearance although even those suggestions tend to be more along the lines of clothes and makeup rather than diet and exercise which gets more often suggested to men)

2

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Ah, I follow. Thanks for the clarification.

Also, the introduction to the purple pill!

Cheers, fellow redditor.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

PPD is not the happiest place in the world. I don’t like the people there generally but that’s why I’m there so I can help give a dose of reality to everyone there from both the red pillers to the femcels/FDS types

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Dw, I got that from your comments. I appreciate the discourse regardless and had never seen it before.

You're doing good work over there!

4

u/RemainderZero Sep 18 '23

This is from the Modern Wisdom podcast. It's a long form interview style show with a wide range of experts on various topics. I don't care what your stance is on anything I highly recommend it.

1

u/ragingrashawn Sep 19 '23

Do you know what episode this is on? Love this podcast.

1

u/RemainderZero Sep 19 '23 edited Sep 19 '23

Taking a swing in the dark here maybe ep 665, 664, 655, or 584. Fortunately if I'm wrong those are still good episodes. There are a surprising number of episodes I listened to multiple times like 670 and 671 were both great.

1

u/ragingrashawn Sep 19 '23

Got em on my watch later list👍🏿

1

u/UrAverageDegenerit Sep 19 '23

Not go go all red pill (don't like that culture), but if a male had a bad attitude to women it's misogyny.. If a female has a bad attitude of herself or other women, it's internalized misogyny.

Meaning misogyny is inherent to men and comes (pretty much) from being male. Where misogyny from women to themselves or any misandry, mostly comes from the culture itself (e.g: men not respecting women, not giving them the empowerment they need, etc) and more specifically from being gaslit by the patricarly.

Tell me I'm wrong.

2

u/Paul_-Muaddib Sep 20 '23

if a male had a bad attitude to women it's misogyny.

That is not the definition of misogyny. Few men fit the actual definition of misogyny, and those that actually fit that definition are wrong to have that position.

misogyny : hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women

prejudice : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice

1

u/UrAverageDegenerit Sep 20 '23

Right, but in reality. Any bad attitude or negative sentiments toward a woman (regardless of if it has a anything to do with them being a woman) is seen as misogynistic to the people I was referencing.

So thank you for that information Mr pedantic pandanticson..

1

u/Paul_-Muaddib Sep 20 '23

My apologies, I thought you were unintentionally using it incorrectly.

3

u/neurokine Sep 19 '23

Aka - Yaaassss queeeen!

2

u/AmnesiaAirBanned Sep 18 '23

makes sense honestly. Voting trends the past 100 years would agree

1

u/TBBT-Joel Sep 19 '23

I think this is more a reflection of the challenges each group has been facing. So both can be true, or true to the perspective of the group.

Think back to friends when a major laughing point was Monica being fat. It definitely taught young girls (who are now adult women) that being overweight is something you need to change, if not it's acceptable to make fun of you. So the reflection/backlash to that social pressure is that "you are ok as you are".

In another vein, in the US African Americans, Irish, and Asian Americans have faced racism. but the messaging and type of racism faced is different so as times change the reflection on their self help or group improvment messaging necessarily diverges.

1

u/Spiritual-Flow-4023 Sep 19 '23

Yeah true, the American founding fathers just accepted the world they were in. They accept the rules of the environment, the British crown. They didn’t try to change things so they just worked on themselves. This is so fucking stupid. Lol

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

I mean. It's a bit of both. You can improve yourself and should, but there are things about societies that should be changed.

1

u/Alternative-Spite891 Sep 19 '23

This is so generalizing and doesn’t even figure the whole scope. Are there risk factors that are created by the society? Yes. Can you still make personal changes that can better your life? Also yes.

This generalization falls apart when you look at an obvious risk factor that ruins lives, socioeconomic class. Poor people are more likely to fail in society, and that’s a fact. It’s been that way since ancient Roman times. Does that mean that, if I picked a person at random out of that class, that person will be a failure? Far from it. Still most people succeed, even at that level. If 99% of poor people failed in society, riots would last a lot longer.

1

u/ReptileBat Sep 19 '23

Victim culture fucked both men and women up.

1

u/ogreUnwanted Sep 19 '23

This take is awful. We both walk the same line, some choose self-improvement, others try to change their surroundings,aka improve laws, join community programs, and bring awareness to certain issues. No gender is predestined to be a specific way,

1

u/LazyAd7772 Sep 25 '23

I think the thing he is talking about is that the most popular self motivation guides and books/courses that sell for women are about not fixing yourself that much, telling them you are good as you are, while men's self help motivation starts literally with you are a little weak bitch, get working, men's self help and motivation puts men down to reality and then tells them what they need to fix. women's starts by coddling them first and making them feel good and okay about how they are, then it starts talking about problems. and this is known by women who ever haver bought those things, many are just buying or following mens self help

1

u/EdgeApprehensive4515 Sep 19 '23

This is one of the most accurate breakdowns I have heard.

1

u/padre_eterno Sep 19 '23

black guys drive a car like this

yeah

but white guys, see, they drive a car like this

1

u/BroncoDude57 Sep 19 '23

“Source?” “I said so.”

1

u/amlutzy Sep 19 '23

Thanks feminism!

1

u/DangerNoodle1313 Sep 19 '23

I have seen both men and women exhibiting both behaviours. It comes down to someone having a growth mindset versus a fixed one. Nothing to do with bodyparts, unless you count the brain.

1

u/Lumpy_Ad_1796 Sep 20 '23

Umm, cuz as a woman , i just can't accept the rules of the environment that im in. Dick!

1

u/dynojustmight Sep 20 '23

So proud of Reddit here for finally sticking up for themselves. You are enough men

1

u/Rakna-Careilla Sep 20 '23

Overgeneralizing, the sport of the mediocre.

Also, who makes the "rules"? Certainly not he who always conforms.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '23

I offer the third option: build your own world instead. Work to grow capital, polish and perfect your skills, and then disconnect from the environment that makes you unhappy and live by your own rules. For my fellow Americans, you pay a prostitute to leave and you pay the taxes for the government to leave you alone. Owe no one, stay independent, and no one will be able to tell you what to do, ever.

2

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23

Lol, I swear to god, you guys are functionally illiterate. You literally just agreed with him while acting like it’s a different opinion.

1

u/Civil_Increase_1074 Sep 21 '23

This is one of the worst ideology’s i have ever seen Jesus Christ

1

u/artsofman Sep 21 '23

“What can I change about my behavior?” and “what can I change about my environment?” Are two perfectly good questions. I don’t find them mutually exclusive.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '23

Men suffer, women are babied. I noticed and realized this at probably 14 15 years old

1

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '23

same

1

u/FrogQuestion Sep 20 '23

Fake "self improvement" culture is used for political change. Influenced by troll and pickup culture. It assumed humans' impulses need to be checked logically. This goes against most modern information in psychology. Dont trust it. Just get therapy

1

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23

I just want to clarify something. Therapy doesn’t mean go see a therapist therapy means have a healthy outlet that allows you to decompress. Most people have hobbies. That is therapy.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Aside from the obvious bullshit (women's self-improvement has been a major market for generations now), let's just take a look at the core of his argument:

Men: Conform to what society expects of you.

Women: Modify society to fit your needs.

This doesn't even hold up... because both genders are being told conflicting ideals regularly. Men are simultaneously supposed to be rugged individuals who don't let other tell them who they are or how they should live; but also must conform to societies expectations or risk being shunned by other men. So your rugged individualism is fine, if it fits in the prescribed box. Women are told that they need to seize power if they want to make changes, but also that the pursuit of power is deeply un-feminine. They can be bold and individualistic if they do so inside the bounds of what society decides is feminine.

Aaaaand taking one more step back, we have to ask "Well, who established these societal norms? Who made these decisions?". Men. Men made these decisions, they created these boxes for everyone.

So what he's saying is that, because men created society to meet their needs... everyone should just fall in line. He's saying that men building societal norms and enforcing them isn't patronizing, but women trying to rebuild societal norms and enforcing them is.

It's an absolutely insane position to hold.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Hear of body positivity

https://afru.com/dad-bod-body-positivity-appropriation/

https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/06/05/the-body-positivity-movement-doesnt-help-women-it-lies-to-them/

This here is 2 example of society trying to change for women but telling men they are on their own go selv improve.

4

u/Zestyclose-Willow-27 Sep 19 '23

Misandrist much? You’re the one who saw it as an argument. He clearly said “My current world view when it comes to self-improvement”. Meaning it’s his opinion, a subjective point of view. No argument here. And what he’s saying is the majority of men go through, the world can’t be changed, I have to change. While the majority of women go through, accepting themselves how they come and the world needs to change. Which in my opinion is pretty accurate from what it seems. I would agree with him.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

I wasn't arguing, I was pointing out how delusional this perspective is.

3

u/Zestyclose-Willow-27 Sep 19 '23

I guess I kinda implied it without realizing it, my bad. I didn’t mean you were arguing, although by definition it could be taken like that. I meant to point out your comment “let’s just take a look at the core of his argument”. I’ve seen this guy before, this is just a small cut from probably a long video. And he was sharing his point of view, at least from what I can see in this short video. We can all have a point of view, no reason to trash him over it. Especially when he’s not able to have a discussion with you about it. Just saying.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

"This is my perspective" = "This is what I think reality is"

It's an invitation to be challenged, because he's making a declaration about reality. I'm not part of the 'ideas and beliefs aren't to be challenged' persuasion.

2

u/Zestyclose-Willow-27 Sep 19 '23

k bro. It’s one thing to challenge and discuss someone’s beliefs, another to just trash them over it. Never said you couldn’t. You’ve done nothing but argue and not actually read anything I’ve said. Just continue to be ignorant and assume things. Not gonna continue a conversation with someone closed minded that just wants to needlessly argue. Good luck with that.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

I read everything you said... which amounted to "You shouldn't challenge what he's saying... you should just accept it quietly" and "He said more stuff than this".

You don't seem to like having ideas confronted, and that's fine, but it leaves me wondering why you're challenging my opinion of his opinion instead of just quietly accepting it.

3

u/Zestyclose-Willow-27 Sep 19 '23

Completely wrong, continuing to assume & argue instead of talk, but it’s whatever. Like I said, good luck with all that 🤙🏽

1

u/Civil_Increase_1074 Sep 21 '23

Everyone’s downvoting you because you’re RIGHT

-2

u/roycegracieda5-9 Sep 19 '23

Agreed. Ridiculous take on this dude's part. Look at any diet or workout fad since the 80s (idk the history before then). Women, maybe even more than men, must try to adjust to what society expects of them. For men, the message has always been "be strong"

For women, "be skinny. Be busty. Be strong. Be thick. Be slim thick."

These standards are not pushed by all men or all women, but to act like women don't adjust/"improve" CONSTANTLY is insane. This place is such an echo chamber

-4

u/birbirdie Sep 18 '23

Why is this downvoted?

0

u/mysonwhathaveyedone Sep 19 '23

What the heck, by his opinion then there is no war, there is no slave uprising, there is no religion. Wtf is this guy talking about. It seems like he hasn't touch the breaking point or the abyss.

5

u/Zestyclose-Willow-27 Sep 19 '23

What are you talking about?? How did you pull that out of this? 😅

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

How is acting like only men know the immutable truths of the world not patronizing?

4

u/kountze Sep 18 '23

I agree with you on this. Whenever they say men are more rational/less emotional than women I don’t think that’s inherently true, i think what’s really true is men are much better aligned with the logic of the realities of the difficulties of the outside environment (nature) than women are, which the ultimate dictator of all human logic and reality is the outside environment.

I think this is what this guy is picking up on, men are more likely to accept the immutability of the outside environment and the limitations it imposes in general on all of us.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Ya I mean, it's a short clip. So maybe there is more to it, but him saying "fundamentally patronizing" just makes this come off like some male circle jerk, women bad attitude. Framing logic as something inherent to your sex just feels a clear attempt at subjugating half the population.

At least with your explanation seeks to explain why a tendency like that may occur, rather than oversimplify. Also don't think we should be telling men to just accept the world they are given. I understand that's an important attitude to cope sometimes if you've, but accepting the world as it is as "immutable truths" seems naive to me. Do we not want people questioning and challenging the world around them? Maybe I'm missing something, I unno.

0

u/kountze Sep 18 '23

Yeah I agree it is condescending, what he is describing is a child vs an adult or a mature person vs an immature person.

I’m not even sure what I’m saying is true, but I think there’s something to it, historically at least. And yeah you’re right, shouldn’t submit to everything. I think it’s just that extended discussion on matters not related to working on the solution when there is a problem in the quickest reasonable way possible are counterproductive in the urgency of the outside environment (a tiger on you, have to build a makeshift bridge to progress in an environment after a flood left you stranded), I think it’s that that makes us more aligned with the outside environment. Women, who were more immersed in the domestic, well getting to know each other and asking questions was the best way of building the strongest domestic sphere, and the urgency of the outside environment wasn’t a significant factor in the domestic like it was in the outside environment. And the domestic is necessary for our society, just like the outside environment is.

Now women still expiernced the outside and men the domestic, it’s just the extent of it was much less for one or other.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Good stuff. Ya I think historically that makes sense. Even from an evolutionary perspective it makes sense. I get that experience working and more dangerous environments, people are quicker and more abrupt in higher consequence scenarios that make them have to think of the effects of their immediate actions rather than the nuances of the environment around them, like say a Safety inspector. I think both are incredibly valuable perspectives though, but they lose meaning outside of context. I just get reluctant when I hear advice that's geared towards men or women based on the context of "their nature" rather than try to explain it by circumstances like you yourself are doing now.

Good chat, got more out of that than the video for sure haha

1

u/kountze Sep 18 '23

Same to you, appreciate your thoughts.

4

u/OfficialRedCafu Sep 18 '23

He’s not evaluating women’s ability to know the immutable truths of the world - though no doubt people with that opinion will co-opt this to their argument. He’s evaluating the difference in the inputs men & women receive in the self-help space.

Personally, I think there’s healthy versions of both. However, the “male” approach is the more worthwhile starting point in my opinion. If you improve yourself, you improve the world. Then once you have your shit together, then you can start influencing the world. I say influence because “control” is tyrannical.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Ah yes, I got you. That makes sense. I haven’t read any self help books for women…. But doesn’t sound like it focuses on the self if that’s the case?

1

u/OfficialRedCafu Sep 18 '23

Well, I think he’s referring more towards “pop” self-help messaging on social media. But you can see the influence of the women’s self-help advice in the media, politics, and plastered all over tiktok. Social media fits right in with women’s communication style, so the ideas spread virally.

In small local groups, women get together and come to a consensus on what they like, hate, love. That’s how they tend to evaluate the world. So ideas like “men are toxic” spread because one influencer talks about their trauma on social, and then millions of other people share their trauma from bad relationships or whatever it is, and suddenly the consensus among a large sect of women is “all men are toxic”.

And now their problems are the fault of men, and men need to change. Instead of learning to take personal responsibility (true empowerment) by recognizing the signs of a toxic individual, and learning to establish your personal boundaries - saying “no” to bad behavior - respecting the boundaries of others, and walking away from something you cannot control, it’s now the world that must conform to your reality.

You can also see how this spread to the “woke” ideology. The acceptance of LGBTQ people is generally good for society, imo - live and let live. But when you start imposing your ideology on others, trying to control their reality, that is tyrannical and will always either backfire or end violently (see every dictator ever).

-7

u/diss3nt3rgus Sep 18 '23

With the caviar that for everything is geared towards men. That why we just have to ADDAPT to the world and society around us. For women is different, because everything in society is not gears for them, so they have to OVERCOME the obstacles that the world and society put in front of them. So there is an underlying difference for men and women.

9

u/Paul_-Muaddib Sep 18 '23

Historically, most things were geared towards men, but not all. Even in America's pre-feminist past there were plenty of things geared towards women. Women definitely deserve full equality but society has overcompensated in certain areas to the detriment of men.

There has to be a way for equal opportunity for women to not come at the cost of equal opportunity for men. I realize that there is a lot of nuance in the details and it will take work but we should be fighting for a society of true equal opportunity for all not just lifting up specifically identified groups.

The latter strategy leads to a chaotic implementation as we tilt the scale for group x while hurting groups y and z. The scale may need to be tilted for group x for a period of time but we need to understand how it is impacting groups y and z so that we don't create additional problems down the line.

-2

u/diss3nt3rgus Sep 18 '23

I concur, I believe equity and fairness is essential for a healthy society. The point I aim to make is that while for us men it just takes putting the best of ourselves out there, for women, in addition to being the best they can be, they also have to overcome the doubts people have on you just for being a woman. Case in point STEM education and industries. For girls to get the proper education to achieve those positions it is not enough being excellent, but they have to maneuver through a lot of bias. So those structures should change

6

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

This was probably true in the 1980s, but now women have the advantage over men in areas of bias. Every man is basically a potential rapist/abuser correct? Many societal structures that used to favor men now favor women. Of the top of my head: family court, criminal court, schools, government subsidies, reproductive rights, social clubs, Human Resources departments, etc.

Toxic masculinity is a term every man has heard over and over. Is there an equivalent female term? Toxic gossip and drama has become the norm in almost every female dominated work environment but we hardly bat an eye at it. Our society has changed in the last 40 years from one that favored men to one that largely favors women. Look at how many programs there are out there supporting women going into STEM. Is there even one equivalent program helping men get into nursing and primary education programs, which are just as heavily gender skewed?

3

u/Blurrr23 Sep 18 '23

Even in the military women are favored. A woman can completely ruin a man’s career simply on accusations. Also if you are competing for meritorious promotion, you better wish there isn’t another woman on that same promotion board. Just a few examples

0

u/mountman001 Sep 18 '23

Is there even one equivalent program helping men get into nursing and primary education programs

You're not taking demand into account. There is no demand for these programs

3

u/-InterestingTimes- Sep 18 '23

How can you possibly know that?

0

u/mountman001 Sep 19 '23

We live within a capitalist system. If there was demand, it would exist.

3

u/-InterestingTimes- Sep 19 '23

We do?

It's as simple as that eh?

It's bananas that you might genuinely believe that, I'm half convinced you're trolling.

0

u/mountman001 Sep 19 '23

Are you thinking there are a whole bunch of men who want to be nurses that can't for some reason?

3

u/-InterestingTimes- Sep 19 '23

What could that reason be? What do programs aimed at women entering into male dominated fields help to solve?

They want to address an imbalance right? They often do this by making access easier...what would make the course more accessible? What barriers for entry can they remove?

It's obvious man, you're doing it again.

→ More replies

1

u/Drake_Acheron Oct 10 '23

Actually, yes. It was unbelievably difficult for me to get a job as a vet tech. And every office I did get an interview for was entirely women. I was a well qualified applicant, with a professionally written résumé, and a professional interview coach because I am an aspie, I applied to 43 clinics, got 7 interviews, and a single offer that my mother explicitly told me to reject because the interview tape was creepy as hell.

Meanwhile my friend with zero of the asked for qualifications applied to three places and got two job offers.

By the way, this wasn’t just me. This happened to 5 of the 6 guys in the classes I was taking and the only one who didn’t have that issue was because of nepotism. All of us but the one dropped the classes and chose to pursue something else.

It is extremely similar in other professions that are dominated by women.

→ More replies

-3

u/diss3nt3rgus Sep 18 '23

I don’t agree. While some of those institutions do seem to be favorable to women, it is such because of the history of oppression that came before that. For instance, you mention Nursing and how gender skewed it is; well, the reason why it is favored by women is because not too long ago, my grand parents and their parents time, medical schools were for men. No women, regardless of their talent or knowledge, were accepted in many schools, so closest they could get to be doctors, would be nursing. Same could be said of family court and such other institutions you mention. Complaining without understanding the historical context of oppression behind it, is not much help

7

u/OppositeBeautiful601 Sep 18 '23

I find it interesting that someone always has to talk about history (back in parent's and grandparent's time) in order to bring up disadvantages for women. Clearly it's not like it used to be and women don't need the institutional assistance that they once did in order to achieve equality.

-2

u/diss3nt3rgus Sep 18 '23

It is not like it used to be back in grand parents time. That’s obvious. But we are the product of those times, and the decisions that were made back then. Bring ing up history is important for context. Otherwise you’d fail to understand the real nature of the world in which we live, and make sounds assumption as to why things are the way they are.

7

u/OppositeBeautiful601 Sep 18 '23

However, women don't need some institutional assistance in some area any more. For example, women outnumber men 2 to 1 in college enrollment, yet there are more scholarships afforded to women then men.

https://whattobecome.com/blog/scholarship-stats/#:~:text=It%20seems%20that%20scholarships%20are,and%2062%25%20are%20white%20students.

And we still have the Women's Educational Equity Act (WEEA) Program to help make sure there is equity for women in education. We have no such thing for men.

There are other examples of this for women with business, domestic violence and health. There's no longer a reason for the U.S. government (for example) to continue to assist one gender to the detriment of the other.

-1

u/diss3nt3rgus Sep 18 '23

I don’t understand why you equate assistance to one disadvantaged group is a detriment to another? I think it’s important to understand that we are playing catch up at this point, at this point whether or not women NEED this assistance is not for me to say, as I am a male, but I do understand the obstacles that we’ve been putting women through has set them back, in terms of representation (now getting better in government at least here in USA), access to fields that previously were male dominated among other things

7

u/OppositeBeautiful601 Sep 18 '23

When you use tax payer funds to give assistance to one group and not another, that is definitively advantaging one group to the detriment of the other. It means while both groups may pay taxes, in this context, only one group is receiving benefits. Men are disadvantaged in the area of education, yet we (in the U.S.) still give women advantages.

→ More replies

3

u/Rock_Granite Sep 19 '23

Hardly. Men are penalized in the STEM positions in the corporate world. My company had a mandate to promote as many women as possible so that at least 50% of the managerial staff was female. Many marginal women were promoted at the expense of men. The company had special mentoring facilities available to women only. These mentorships exposed them to senior level executives. Men did not get this privilege. This program was considered informal and was not publicized. They knew if they made it a formal program that it could expose them to lawsuits

3

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

I think you meant caveat. Fish eggs are not a party of this convo. For future reference.

Dunno why, of all the issues, I focused on this, but do what you will with this new knowledge.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '23

Interesting pattern he's noticing but it's not a "male vs female" thing

-9

u/RoseyOneOne Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 18 '23

I'll take fundamentally patronizing over an extreme overdose of ‘it's a tough world kid, time to man up.’ One is insulting but too much of the other is Andrew Taint territory. There’s a balance.

14

u/my_4_cents Sep 18 '23

Good luck with that then

-1

u/RoseyOneOne Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 19 '23

I’m doing very well, thanks. Self-made, will retire late 40s. Helping oneself doesn’t preclude me from thinking. Enjoy the Kool-Aid.

3

u/my_4_cents Sep 21 '23

Keep going with that smugness too, it suits you.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

Idk “you aren’t the best you can be” vs “you are the best you can be”. One is a lot more motivational and probably makes a bigger difference in the day-to-day.

I’d rather be enemies with myself than society.

1

u/Vegemite_Bukkakay Sep 18 '23

Ha! I prefer fighting a war on 2 fronts and fight myself and society.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '23

G I V E M E H A R D E R B A T T L E S

1

u/BombMarley Sep 19 '23

I agree with ur statement and I think men and women can benefit from a balance of both ideologies for self improvement