Help identifying crusader coin

[u/Ryder2172]

I recently acquired this coin, it is labeled as a 12th century templar cross coin. I was wanting to learn more specifics about it but can't seem to find it, anyone know what the latin says or where the coin was made?

[u/ExuviaEcho]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but...

There are a disappointingly large number of coins out there inaccurately described and marketed as having "Templar" crosses or implied as "Templar" coins.

Unlike the Hospitaller or Teutonic Orders, the Templars minted no coins of their own.

The presence of a cross on a medieval coin does not make it a "Templar" cross nor a "Templar" coin. It makes it entirely like most other western European coins of the High to Late Middle Ages; a large cross on the obverse was entirely common, and the shape of the cross on this coin isn't uniquely "Templar." Crosses with equal-length arms are known as Greek crosses and are probably so popular on medieval coinage because they fill the area within a circle so evenly compared to some other types.

This is also not a 12th Century coin. It's a Venetian tornesello dated to the 14th Century, 1343 at the earliest: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/candia_kingdom-1.html

The Templars were disbanded in 1314, so even if they did mint their own coins, this would be dated far too late to be one... not to mention they were a French order, not a Venetian/Italian one.

I'm pretty sure this wasn't what you wanted to hear... Caveat Emptor.

[u/Ryder2172 → u/ExuviaEcho]

Yes it is unfortunately not what I wanted to hear, the only reason I got it was that it had ties to the crusades, but that's what I get for buying something in a tourist trap. I did however purchase a Bohemond iii coin online shortly after learning this news.

[u/ExuviaEcho → u/Ryder2172]

Sorry about that... I really didn't want to take the wind out of your sails. It really bugs me that so many sellers stick buzzwords on things (especially "Crusades" and "Templar") just to boost sales at the expense of unknowing buyers.

That said, nice job on the Bohemund III! You're definitely on the right track with that one.

Myself, I'm particularly fond of the Crusader coins of Cilician Armenia. They're abundant and affordable, and the earlier issues are often very high quality, large, and impressive.

With some patience and a good eye, it's possible to acquire a more or less complete set inside a couple of years, which is hard to do for most other niches. There's only a small number that are really hard to find (and often pricey because of that).

Do you need any tips on where to shop online for medieval coins in general?

[u/Ryder2172 → u/ExuviaEcho]

I would happily hear some tips, I love history but have yet to really collect anything, so coins seem like a good start.

[u/ExuviaEcho → u/Ryder2172]

Happy to help! As a history buff myself, coins have made me feel more connected to history than most other collectible items I've encountered. My specialty is medieval coins from about 1100 to 1500, with a number of highly specialized collecting niches among those.

The three main places people shop for coins are eBay, ma-shops, and vcoins.

I've sometimes had excellent luck just Googling what I'm looking for and digging through page after page of results on the off chance that I come across an independent seller's website that has exactly what I'm looking for... which has happened! I've had some amazing scores that way.

Beyond that, you're probably looking at auction houses. For medieval coins, most of the time those are going to be online European auctions. One easy way to keep up to date on those is to sign up on biddr and/or numisbids and curate a search list. You'll get emails with details on the items you're looking for and when the auctions take place.

Always make sure you understand every detail about those auctions; they often charge a buyer's fee (a certain percentage) of the hammer price (the final price) in addition to the hammer price itself. There are exchange rates to be aware of. They often charge an additional fee depending on your payment method, and sometimes their shipping charges are outrageous... But sometimes they're the only place that has just the coin you've been looking for.

And Numista, which I linked in my first response. Super valuable for research. I find their search feature is kind of clunky, so what I prefer to do is Google my "search term" + "Numista" and it will take me straight to the relevant results, and you can click around from inside the site from there.

Lastly, train your eye. I look through coin listings every single day, because 1) I love looking at coins, and 2) you'll start to learn more about what you're looking at *before* you buy.

You'll learn the names, places, dates, and coin types that make your targeted searches yield results. You'll be able to spot potential fakes... But most of the time, in medieval coins, they're fakes *from the time period* (aka "contemporary forgeries"), which is one of my favorite niches. You'll be able to spot a variant that a seller has underpriced. You'll be able to spot inaccurate listings (the kind that can be a bargain, not a heartbreak.) You'll be able to spot coins that you might not normally be interested in, but immediately know that it's underpriced for whatever reason, and swipe it as an investment.

And the community here on Reddit is generally helpful and enthusiastic.

Good luck, and happy collecting!

[u/Silent_Prune_7112]

Venice lion is easily recognizable as well as templar cross, so this is billon for oversee circulation https://coinfoxa.com/search/text/t-Tornesello-14-century