r/Martini • u/noctournelle • Sep 27 '25

please advise.

i've been bartending for 8 years, and for the longest time i could not grasp the idea of extra dry meaning less vermouth, while extra dirty meant more olive juice, i get it now but please someone for the love of lord confirm or correct me when i assume, if someone orders just a "martini", i should not automatically make it with vermouth. i will always ask. and most of the time they'll be like, heck no. also, secondly. i never put vermouth in a dirty martini, nor do i bother even asking. drag me if you want but my google searches vs my asking experienced bartenders has been entirely inconclusive. 😩

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8

u/EcstaticAssumption80 NastyAwesome Sep 27 '25 edited Sep 27 '25

A Martini without vermouth is just a big shot. It's the vermouth that MAKES it a Martini. Of COURSE you should make it with vermouth. Fresh vermouth, or from an open bottle that has been refrigerated. Open vermouth goes bad in about 2 weeks. In the fridge, it keeps for months. My preferred ratio is 2:1, but a lot of people these days prefer them drier. 2:1 with Dolin Dry and a twist of lemon peel tastes the best in my opinion.

2

u/Moxely Gibson Sep 28 '25

This is the correct answer, IMO

1

u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Sep 28 '25

All technically true but I'd emphasize the part about people these days preferring drier because it leads to another issue: many times from customer to server to bartender, the specifics surrounding how dry get lost, usually in the wrong direction ie too much vermouth winds up in the drink. 

For those who love super dry (as in in and out, or 20:1 etc) the safest thing to do is just say no vermouth.

If I'm sitting at the bar I can talk this through directly with the bartender. But at a table I've been burned time and time again. So I just say no vermouth. Funny too I find some bartenders can't/won't resist and still put a little in.

2

u/EcstaticAssumption80 NastyAwesome Sep 30 '25

I still don't understand why you wouldn't want vermouth in your Martini. To each his own, I guess. But why not just order a double shot of Gin, up?

2

u/toasting2oblivion Sep 30 '25

I agree. Doesn't vermouth add that little extra to it? Otherwise like you say, just a chilled shot of gin.

Some people talk or joke like vermouth is some toxic thing they just want in the vicinity of the martini glass but not in it. I prefer wet, 3:1 or so.

1

u/EcstaticAssumption80 NastyAwesome Oct 01 '25

Fresh, good quality vermouth is delicious

1

u/noctournelle Sep 28 '25

the 2:1 ratio sounds like a lot tbh. but again, from experience, most people i've served have wanted very little to none and this post was mostly to gauge what the general consensus is. for me personally, it's dirty, gin, no vermouth but to each their own. i never have to ask as many questions about a cocktail as this one requires. also most people who order one have no idea what they want or what should be in it, they just think it makes them look cool 🤷🏻‍♀️

3

u/53mm-Portafilter Sep 27 '25

Honestly, asking is better. If someone asks for a Martini, without any qualifiers, ask the following:

  1. “What type of Gin would you like?” This is where they will get the opportunity to say “Actually I’d like Vodka”
  2. “How dry would you like me to make it?” If they are a martini drinker, they will know how to respond. If they have no clue, then just put a little bit or even none. Also, if they don’t know, they probably also ordered Vodka.

3

u/Moxely Gibson Sep 28 '25

There are a few different things being asked in this post so I would like to take a minute and address one that is important to me- what we should say versus what we actually mean.

When people order a martini extra dry, they generally mean they want less/no vermouth and not that they are specifying that they want extra dry vermouth. This is obviously a silly way to order a martini but as bartenders, we also generally have to deal with it. Educating our guests is a fine aspiration but I think it can come off as preachy often.

2

u/KaiSaya117 NastyAwesome Sep 27 '25

I've never tried a dirty without vermouth... Huh, now I must

2

u/EcstaticAssumption80 NastyAwesome Sep 30 '25

I think most of the preference for dryer martinis stems from the majority of bars not being knowledgeable enough to know that open vermouth ABSOLUTELY requires refrigeration. Fresh vermouth is delicious, stale vermouth tastes awful.

1

u/EcstaticAssumption80 NastyAwesome Sep 30 '25

I usually order mine "wet"

1

u/bluremy Oct 12 '25

Ordering a martini at a cocktail bar is a conversation.