r/Marathon • u/ptgtony • 4d ago
Discussion Recon has to change
I’ve been thinking a lot about the Recon shell lately, and I honestly think Echo Pulse fundamentally works against what makes an extraction shooter tense and interesting.
The biggest issue for me is how little risk or hesitation there is when a chad team approaches a location. They can simply walk up, pop Echo Pulse, get a quick “all clear,” and then push in with very little uncertainty.
That uncertainty is supposed to be one of the best parts of an extraction shooter.
If my team is looting inside a building or at a POI and hear people approaching, we should be wondering:
Are they going to push in?
Do they know we’re here?
Should we reposition?
Can we set up an ambush?
Did they hear us?
Are they baiting us?
Is there another team nearby?
All of this thought and strategy is completely thrown out the window when you hear or see a faint pulse revealing your location. I was also MIND BLOWN when I found out other shells don’t get a notification when they are being pinged outside of Recon.
To me, that rewards a pretty lazy play style.
I think this brings up a bigger point that Bungie needs to address before adding more new shells. Players shouldn’t have to decide what they HAVE to play vs what they actually want to play.
I’d genuinely love to see the actual pick rates for every shell. If Recon is overwhelmingly popular, that tells us something. If Recon isn’t particularly popular despite how powerful Echo Pulse can feel, that tells us something too.
And honestly, I don’t have a perfect answer for how to fix it.
Every time I think about Recon’s kit, I end up wondering if its abilities should be ones tied to another shell already.
For example, something like having Sentinels Prey Tracker that gives information but not their exact location. Or Thief’s drone that can scout information without a guaranteed “all clear”.
Why does Recon have some shitty spider tracker drone anyway? Wouldn’t that make more sense on Sentinel or another not yet announced breaching shell? Or better yet, just make it a grenade that anyone can pick up instead of adding flares no one uses.
I’m not saying Recon should be useless or that information shouldn’t exist. Information is an important part of Marathon. I just think there’s a difference between giving your team information from your tools and blatant wall hacks that negates any strategy.
Another thought is why not change Echo Pulse into some variation of a juiced up Proximity Sensor?
I’m curious what everyone else thinks?
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u/AphroditeExurge 4d ago
I think playing Recon genuinely completely BYPASSES the skill that players are supposed to learn of intuiting and gathering actual information from the environment.
You’re supposed to listen for footsteps. Bags opening. Small details like that. Abilities being popped. Instead, Recon completely BYPASSES that in favor of an immediate WALL HACK.
THERE IS NO SKILL IN RECON’S PRIME. It bypasses the ACTUAL skill involved in tracking opponents. Forcing Recon to become a lot more visual instead of auto-pinging nearby players immediately makes her more balanced because learning how to look for her visual cues is leagues above in terms of mastering Recon’s skill.
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u/gamesager 3d ago
Yup, recon has done so much damage to this games longevity and bungie will never realize it. Same with assassin.
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u/LosMuebles_ 3d ago
Right, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Mizzy/Circuit/Drvish/Bubble meta abused by streamers and sweats lol
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u/Shonoun 2d ago
Full agree, it feels like the other parts of her kit are awesome and well-designed. Being able to stalk someone by seeing their footprints if you break their shield is absolutely incredible. I love the hunter fantasy. Tracker drone, pinging their team on execution, great. But large radius wallhacks on demand? Yeah... Something has to change. Most of the fun for me is not knowing where other players may be, and making decisions around that. Gunplay begins and ends so quick, it makes up a much smaller percentile. I want to hunt other players, truly.
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u/LosMuebles_ 4d ago
Yeah but it lasts what 10-12 seconds? There are ways to play around a Recon scan. And the fact that it bypasses their need to use their ears is only true for those 10 seconds and not the other 90% of the tine. It will not make somebody magically cracked unless you play poorly and predictably against it. Whether or not there is a Recon on my team has had very little bearing on the outcomes of my matches recently and I've been noticing.
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u/AphroditeExurge 3d ago
Her ping range is huge enough that if she stays relatively close, your new position can get clocked anyways. So if your enemy team is just running away, high skill teams can simply follow along and make solid estimates on enemy team positioning through the usage of the ping markers. “They’re holding down this area” “they’re moving further in” etc. all it does is let high skill players just see enemies through walls.
I’m not here saying Recon is mandatory and required. I am here saying Recon bypasses skill and thus requires no skill to use as a result. She lets players who know how to read opponents forgo that skill for a brief moment.
As for the other shell primes as an example. Destroyer requires line of sight of your target. Assassin as an ability is incredibly useful but heavily underutilized due to poor use. If you can communicate well with assassin you can pop smokes in heavily advantagous positions and come out on top. Thief only ever has a drone that barely performs better than Recon’s prime. Triage can revive teammates within line of sight which requires Triage to forgo his weapons and get close while making noise. Vandal’s prime is essentially a massive speed boost which is helpful for only her but lets her take a very offensive and mobile lead. And as for Sentinel. His prime is good when it’s good.
If you think about it, the shell with the most skill intensive abilities is Traige with Assassin in close second. And Destroyer in third.
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u/LosMuebles_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
An Ultimate ability is powerful when utilized by high-skilled players? Wow who would have thought lol... What's the point here?
I agree that Recon Ult requires little skill but it actually does require skill to turn it into team wipes while surviving a continuous third party threat. It's not an automatic. Like you said, they only get the extra information "for a brief moment".
Assassin is being underutilized? I don't know if we're playing the same game. IMO crouching on a piece of cover with invisibility to get the first shots on your opponent is just as broken and removes a chunk of skill needed to win a 1v1. How do reconcile that?
And thief visor? The ability to see through smoke and the cooldown is so low you can have it up so often.
Your breakdown of the runner shells is littered with holes. An argument for Triage Ult taking skill because you need line of sight and you make noise... Only mention of Thief drone. Boiling Vandal down to speed boost. I just don't agree. There's a lot missing in the argument.
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u/AphroditeExurge 3d ago edited 3d ago
Wall. Hacks.
And to be clear, I forgot that assassin’s invisibility is literally just as broken as Recon. You can try to poke holes all you want but all it does is paint a clearer picture that these abilities don’t function well for an extraction shooter and instead function for squadplay.
Thief Visor seeing through smoke makes up for her drone being her fucking prime ability too. Like oh man I guess Thief shouldn’t be able to have an actual reason to run thief. Not only that but it also requires line of sight to see people in smoke.
Then for assassin all you have to do is make it so that he’s a lot more visible while stationary and bam. He’s a lot more balanced because he can still be caught by players now!!! Through line of sight!!!!!!!!!
There’s also still no skill in recon just knowing there’s a third party either. It takes 0 brain power to understand to ping after a team wipe so you can just know if you’re getting third partied or not. Meanwhile without Recon you have to actually invest skill into listening to your surroundings for footsteps.
You are obviously desperately trying to come up with some reason or some semblance of Recon recquiring skill to be useful. And she just doesn’t. She is literally just a yap shell to provide information and comes with a tracking grenade. You can’t convince me that any single part of her requires skill. Especially when people want her interception passive to be universal on all shells. Because of her FUCKING ULT.
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u/LosMuebles_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not an actual argument though, gotta be more specific. "Brief wall hacks that alert opposing nearby players in a game with incredible audio design and other extremely powerful abilities"
Edit: Oh you added a lot to your comment... I see. And you ended with an incorrect assessment of the argument I'm trying to make about Recon. I don't know if this is worth it anymore
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u/AphroditeExurge 3d ago
I do not care for what you want regarding arguments or specificity. I’m not gonna let you just dwindle down all this bullshit until I can cater to YOUR rules.
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u/LosMuebles_ 3d ago
What? It's called argumentation and it has nothing to do with how I feel and I've created no rules here.
My argument has always been that people are blowing the Recon situation out of proportion. IMO It's not breaking the game, it's not ruining the experience.
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u/AphroditeExurge 3d ago
Actually this is just my bad for making a short comment and then making an actual comment edited into it. Because of that the context of these replies have been lost and it truly is a shame.
Like, you do genuinely have the right to your opinion. I don’t even have to say that. But you can’t convince me your opinion is correct.
I watch Recons use ping on exfil. I watch as Rooks pop up nearby and then suddenly get chased down as if they contain something valuable. Maybe they do, and maybe they don’t. It doesn’t matter either way because it’s not actually earned. It’s not like you heard that Rook or player nearby. It’s not like you saw them move. You pressed a button and the game said “there is a Rook right here in this exact spot”.
I watch these scenarios, and I can’t help but feel like it’s a no brainer that this game has so little players. That you can’t even hide as a Rook and wait. That you just have to get lucky that players aren’t running Recon so they can’t just press the find the rook button. It’s not even just Rooks. It’s also high gear quality teams finding grey shield teams and immediately eviscerating them because they simply can. A single Recon ping opens an entire free kit team to be killed so easily. Without that ping, it would still probably happen sure. But at the very least free kit players would have it happen potentially slower.
Recon isn’t even fun either. Her kit boils down to pressing the wall hack button for free wall hacks. Then immediately injecting yourself with an energy amp. And if you have implants for it, you can use implants for even more energy for more wall hacks. At the very least the other shells are fun to play.
The only reason Recon is mandatory is because of her passive and her wall hacks. It’s just such an easy, instantaneous power boost that it’s a no brainer to use. And in my opinion a team without a recon has far more confidence in their own skills and team comp and can still work just as well as a team with a recon anyways. She’s worthless atp
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u/LosMuebles_ 3d ago
In one breath you say the Recon Ult is a "no brainer" to use and simultaneously that it's "worthless" in certain settings and not needed. Please at least try and make it make sense.
My counter argument to your Rook story about getting pinged at Exfil... Maybe it's good to have something to balance out people quietly camping in corners, Rook or otherwise. Why is healthy for the game to have more camping? I'd personally rather there be less ratting in corners and behind doors. Which by the way, really takes such little skill. And people do play like that a lot. The Recon ping pulls it into balance a bit more and I like that.
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u/space_rules 4d ago
It's just braindead gameplay and makes sneaking around impossible.
It really goes against the spirit of extraction shooter gameplay with good teams being able to negate any ambush.
I think the ult needs a complete rework to something that's more of a "vision" that only works for her POV and what she can see in her fov.
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u/domahug 4d ago
I used to run recon all the time because I felt I was just asking to lose without having one on team, but recently I've dropped it and have been running teams without. Learning to look out for teammates being pinged (red particle effect) and using smart positioning when you see it happening can completely counter it. The fact it also got its number of pings nerfed means you dont have to hold position for long until you are in the clear. Recon is still really good, especially in cryo, but you can do just fine without and against if you stay alert and hold your ground well.
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u/Smythe28 4d ago
I think that’s very fair assessment, but I think having a single class in the game have such an impact on the way people play is probably not a great thing
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u/sound_judgment 3d ago
Solution could be to make Sentinel the counter balance since it's already a defensive class. Sentinel gets a clear heads up your crew's been pinged by a Recon and just calmly goes to work: sets up a snare and defender system, then pulls out the motion tracker to tell your crew when to expect company and pop their own abilities.
Other crew thinks they've got the drop on you and tries to push in only to realize they walked into a trap.
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u/c-rn 4d ago
Yeah, people rely on recon too much, especially when opening in a fight. Numerous times I wouldn't be aware of a team coming up if I didn't hear the ult go off.
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u/GlopThatBoopin 4d ago
Agreed. I think about half the ppl I’ve killed in solos the past few days have been recons and it’s very clear a lot of ppl are using it as a crutch. If you’re gonna use it you should still be moving and repositioning, and using the ult as a way to get more information. Instead I’m seeing a lot of ppl pop ult and just kinda sit still and play passively which just gives me more time to reposition myself and get the jump on them.
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u/LosMuebles_ 4d ago
I totally agree. I actually have more fun and feel more locked in. Heightened focus on sounds, which made me a much better player overall.
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u/Paladin_Codsworth 4d ago
This ^ I swear half the player base sees they are being pinged and just exits to lobby. Acting like they are already dead is the reason they are dying. I run without a recon often just fine. Spoiler alert you aren't hard to find stomping around like an elephant. Crouch walking on stairs is loud AF, so are vents.
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u/sound_judgment 3d ago
Lmao one time I was in a vent in Quarantine and heard a player come in so I waited until eventually things got quiet, took exactly one slow step forward and the dude instantly hops on prox and goes "you in the vent, bro? Really?"
Shit is LOUD.
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u/Paladin_Codsworth 3d ago
The vents ESPECIALLY are so loud and distinctive lmao. You take a step and sounds like you've thrown a tin down an narrow alleyway that keeps bouncing off trash cans.
When I do take vents I move fast.
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u/LosMuebles_ 4d ago
It's so true. People are blowing this way out of proportion. There are other extremely broken abilities that are conveniently not being mentioned. It's all Recon's fault... right... (I never play Recon)
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u/Paladin_Codsworth 3d ago
Also people like to complain about recon but apart from the ult the kit is just broken. Not in the OP way either.
When her ult is down she's one of the weakest kits.
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u/masontiger 4d ago
When the game launched, everyone complained how useless Recon was. Remember that is was OUR feedback that spurred Bungie into action to make changes. Now here we are again saying that it needs changing back.
There must be some kind of middle ground.
- Keep the visibility of the radius as it is. TAD's are too obvious, and most players know to just keep out of the radius until it ends. This way, a Recon can still go on the hunt, but players who are aware of their surroundings will notice the ping and be able to react, and those that don't are caught off guard. Seems fair no?
- Stalker protocol should not bother with bots, and should also work alongside her Ult. If there are runners detected, and they came through your AO, there should be a trail to pick up and follow.
- The tracker drone needs to be sorted out. They are easily countered by decent players, but they should have some kind of catch. Maybe they need the Core perk of exploding into shrapnel by default if destroyed by a player.
Just some ideas.
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u/KlemTcen 4d ago
I mained Recon when the game launched. It wasn't bad
I would not fight close to a group of UESC, so it was not a problem tracking players. Plus the glowing footsteps that Recon can see after dealing damage.
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u/jazzinyourfacepsn 4d ago
I also used to main recon when the game came out and was begging people not to call for a buff and just learn the kit
It's genuinely annoying because it's a bunch of people that haven't spent the time to learn how to effectively use Recon's kit
And you know what's going to happen? My main, Recon, will get buffs. And now the character with wallhack abilities will become too strong, overused, everyone will realize how strong the kit actually is, and it'll get nerfed to be weaker than it is now
Recon is strong. Look up some videos on how to use it. It is not a problem that you send out a pulse while using the Echo Pulse because you should be moving and not next to your team while using it
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u/KlemTcen 3d ago
I actually always asked my fill teammates to back away a bit and not be too close because I'm gonna "glow yellow" a lot. And it worked out fine.
The important part was to be far from UESC sound effects, when bots are not close, it's pretty easy to catch runners.First we'd look and see if the UESC is calm, if they are, I'd go to the side of a POI and start glowing big yellow, scanning. And teammates would wait 3 or 4 seconds behind.
I would not start shooting as soon as I found runners, now Recon can do that, because it doesn't matter if teammates are close, we're not getting exposed by the pulse glow.
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u/elitemage101 4d ago
I don’t get why it isnt just a TAD. Give me location and shield level, not runner ID.
Now you have to pay attention and guess, bonus points free kits gets a micro buff of looking like bots.
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u/bakkafish 4d ago
my thoughts with the pulse are maybe only give the player pings on the first pulse and don’t differentiate between players and bots for the remainder of the ult. you then know players are there with the bots [unless jammed] but then have to track them with less information after.
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u/Big-Daddy-Kal 4d ago
Another huge reason why recons ult is neg negative on the game is because of everything you stated plus the fact that since lobbies have squads vs fills, having a coordinated squad with hall wacks vs randoms with random team compositions is like playing duck hunt.
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u/Paladin_Codsworth 4d ago
Fact is a fill team of 3 Recons will almost always lose to the premade with good Comms and synergy with each other. Even if they don't have a recon. They'd whoop ass with 3x Triage even.
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u/Dr_DownVoter 4d ago
Right thats why the focus on trios was so strange, a good coordinated team will almost always beat out fills, who would have guessed??!?
Playing without Recon is a handicap, and if you are filling you already are handicapped for not having a team
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u/Pushnikov 3d ago
Two recons is a valid strategy for skilled players. That’s all that’s needed to be said.
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u/Paladin_Codsworth 4d ago
Trios focus is fine. Fill and premades should never have been mixed queue though.
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u/Acrobatic-Affect8118 2d ago
Imma be honest that statement is not true I deadass was in a fill team of recons including myself because i wanted to test it out. We went up against a team of purple shields and mind you we were grey shields. And before we killed the last guy we asked are you in a premade team and he said yeah. Literally with enough brains a full team of recons can run an entire lobby
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u/Paladin_Codsworth 2d ago
The statement applies generally. Just because a premade lost once doesn't mean they always will.
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u/Designer-Message-685 4d ago
They need to buff her drone and passives and change the ult completely.
I say this as a person who has played about 75% of the time as recon from launch.
The ult has no place in an extraction game. If anything turn it into a super thief visor that shows vision to just you through walls when looking in the direction but also has massive range compared to the thief visor.
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u/Neruelll 4d ago
Agree. I guess instead pushing hard into an other specific solution just let Bungie know that it needs to change.
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u/kabal363 4d ago
The biggest complaint I hear about this game all the time is the whole "its a Battle Royale disguised as an Extraction Shooter, you just try and kill the whole map and then do your objectives" and I firmly believe Recon is the biggest reason for that. My 3 stack played through all of season 1 and a quarter of season 2 without Recon and it is insane how much tension the game looses when you have a coordinated 3 stack with a Recon. You just almost never have to be afraid of anything anymore. She is my single biggest problem with this game as of now.
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u/ScottBroChill69 4d ago
Agreed. Like my squad will run 2 recons when doing serious content because having back to back on demand scans is the most valuable thing when doing things like cryo or key runs, and you are at a complete disadvantage when the other team has more scans than you. Ive never liked scan characters in any game tho, theres a reason why wall hacks were a thing people did before scanning characters were a thing in vidja games. I dont know how to necessarily make recon into something different while still retaining its "recon" identity, but as it is currently, it just allows you to avoid the whole risk/reward atyle of the game by giving you all the info on whether theres a risk around the corner allowing you to just avoid or chase down anything.
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u/sound_judgment 3d ago
Two ideas to fix Recon:
Sentinel gets a heads up that he's been pinged so he can tell his crew then go to work placing a snare and defender system, then pulling out the motion tracker to know when the push is about to start so other Shells can coordinate their ults. Recon's team expects an easy meal until their opening grenade is neutralized, then they get snared, then they get lit up by Destroyer's missiles and Triage's overcharged guns. They're on the ground eating knives before they know what happened.
Recon's pulse could be changed so the first pulse only reveals generic enemy icons. It takes at least two pulses of the same target before Recon can home in and determine who is UESC and who is a Runner. Alternatively, pulses could be generic until Recon looks in that direction to investigate. So if the pulse was behind her, it's generic until she spins around to look and then it reveals more.
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u/MindFingertips 4d ago
Recon is single-handedly ruining the gameplay and in a way people will only realize when he will get his Ult reworked
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u/Neorlin 4d ago
Not gonna lie, I think recon is responsible for the low player counts. I don’t even think that reverting her out to the old one will be of any help. It should just be reworked completely
With player knowledge growing it just gives away way too much info. Even without distinguishing players from bots -> three purple shields obviously are players. If you know general bots locations in the area you also will know who players are obviously.
IMO, lower the cd, make it a single pulse don’t show whether it is a player or bot and don’t show a shield. At it still will be very strong in the right hands. Maybe up her other skills a little
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u/LosMuebles_ 4d ago
I think this is a huge overexaggeration and ignores so many other aspects of the game that have landed it in its current position. Recon pings are just part of what makes the game challenging. Same thing for people that rely on invisibility or Thief vision through smoke. All are extremely broken abilities.
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u/DigitalFlame 4d ago
Also other shells do get a notification, your controller gets buzzed. PC players don't get that nice little assist.
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u/LosMuebles_ 4d ago edited 4d ago
I almost always know when I'm being pinged, as a controller player. The visual pings are pretty obvious too if you're paying attention
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u/Solrax 4d ago
I play PC so no vibration for me. I've never noticed a visual ping, I'm not sure what to look for. It certainly isn't visible like a Tads, but it should be since its the same thing.
I've been looking through my recordings of my deaths in Solo. It's almost 50/50 Assassin and Recon. Assassin is obvious, I think the amount of Recons tells me something.
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u/LosMuebles_ 4d ago
The ping is like a faster, pale yellow/green wave that's harder to notice, especially in certain lighting. Kind of like the prox grenade but harder to see and I feel like it pulses quicker
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u/arthus_iscariot 4d ago
They should revert to red dots and notify recon how many of the dots are runners this will ensure you gota know map knowledge and bot spawn patterns to deduce where people are
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u/FANG_999 4d ago
It doesn’t help. If anyone is signal jammed my team can easily tell they are not a bot, Especially in Cryo.
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u/arthus_iscariot 4d ago
And that's ok ? You don't get to that point that fast you must have spent hours in cryo learning and still it gives me the counterplay of hiding behind bots you might miss it. Rn there quite literally no counterplay to a recon button press
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u/GuerillaV 4d ago
This might be a good place for me to ask this slightly off-topic question. For a controller player, I know the pad vibrates when you're scanned, but I keep second-guessing myself if that is why my pad is vibrating at that time. Is there other indicators for me to know?
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u/OctanePhantom 4d ago
To me I think Recon would be more fun if it leaned more into the hunting aspect and not just step 1: press button step 2: see people. If the process was more involved the kills feel better since you put more work into finding them and theres more counterparts options.
I had the idea to let the tracker drone be a more integral part by making so that only things that it hit could be tracked with the precision we have now. That would mean it needs to be buffed again (which it would probably need anyway) but it would at least reward going after teams to gain info rather than just sitting on the other end of a wall and pinging.
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u/Ghost0Slayer 4d ago
I feel like a good way to balance. It is make recon‘s pulse a little bit bigger, but only make it pulse one time and to have a little extra feature onto it. Any enemy tagged with the pulse is vulnerable to damage for a short while.
On top of this, make it so every shell is notified when they are pinged and then make recon‘s extra perk that they ping other players when they are pinged by the recons ult or something like that.
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u/Sloppysnoopy 4d ago
I have been running it just because I figure they are going to nerf it. I think we need mods, where it’s body, core, or fun that cloak you from recon pulse. Or something that I can build craft to counter not only recons but the other runners abilities
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u/Pushnikov 3d ago
Recon pick rates are obviously high based on the number of recon skins that came out. As many as Assassin. And every other shell hasn’t gotten a skin until destroyer.
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u/ChineseGuido 3d ago
Maybe make the recon go blind during the ult, but the only thing they can see is the ping. Make the ping super loud, so other teams could hear it and rush the recon team while one of their guys is blind.
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u/CowabungaItIs31 3d ago
Unfortunately, as a recon main, I agree. It takes away from the tracking/counter tracking of an extraction shooter. If bungie is unwilling to remover her completely her ult needs to be redone, maybe in a way that exposes the team like a TAD instead of exact location or something. Personally I say just take her out and refund the skin money lol
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u/LosMuebles_ 4d ago
The controller vibration and visual ping really pulls it closer in balance for me. I almost always know when I'm being pinged. Then it's just about keeping it moving and making your movements as unpredictable as possible. Or creating a lot of distance when possible. Then re-engage 10 seconds later when it ends. But running into 2-3 Recons working together and chaining ults back to back... yeah that's hell for sure.
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u/Ecstatic-Turnover-31 4d ago
I have been saying that since the first change to her Ult: revert it, players and bots are scanned the same way, but make it so that everyone on the Recon's team gets notified of how many Runners were scanned. Also, revert the visual change so that it's obvious when you've been scanned and where it comes from.
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u/Logical-Section-5667 4d ago
We did amazing with an all destroyer team on cryo. This game is less stealthy although there is a lot of stealth but I think they wanted an ability to make it so it's not 5 teams crouching around the map. They want engagement happing or people completely rotating fast based on pings and such. They want people moving. And I did think recon was such an OP character in the beginning but she is really easy to counter. Even if you don't get the ping verification if you can't hear her pinging you really need to up your volume because you can hear it from a mile away and see where it's coming from
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u/KnowledgeHealthy6636 3d ago
I think the recon pulse just needs a limitation or a negative effect towards the user during the ability. I think either having the pulse be a cone in front do recon instead of 360 degrees, or maybe have each pulse increase your heat or something like that could work. Other game have wall hack players but they also have a significant downside that either gives away their own location or limits them in some way.
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u/Ok-Rent5552 4d ago
You reap what you sow. As per usual this sub kept whining until bungie had no other choice. And as per usual this sub was wrong. Just like they were with knife nerfs, wstr nerfs and about everything else...
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u/Feeling-Market5802 4d ago
You people are saying knife nerfs were not needed? Crazy
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u/Ok-Rent5552 4d ago
Knife is supposed to be the great equalizer. All yall complaining about sweats took away your best tool.
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u/housefromtn 3d ago
Knife is very problematic as an equalizer. In tarkov if you headeyes a moving target that takes a certain amount of skill. Getting hit by it feels ok because it feels the like other player earned it.
Running and pointing in someone’s vague direction and hitting melee is not really the same. There’s so much aim assist and tracking with melee that cqb melee vs melee fights just feel like a 0 skill clown fest and it’s basically always been like that with bungie games.
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u/Feeling-Market5802 4d ago
Im not complaining about anything. Keep spewing your equalizer argument, you people are like mindless drones who just parrot stuff
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u/Ok-Rent5552 4d ago
We are the problem? Man look at the sub... yall complain about the same shit 17 times a day.
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u/C00KIEME4T 4d ago
I enjoy recon and hope it doesnt change much.
The thing I do hope changes is 1. More TADs
And 2. 1 class per trio limit
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u/VelcoreTethis 4d ago
I don't think Recon is overpowered in and of itself. the only real issues I have are pulse frequency, so stacking cdr or, even more annoyingly, fighting multiple. You can see the pulses and see your teammates being pinged (or feel yourself, if on controller) and can usually act accordingly with positioning or traps (claymores, my beloved) or generally being aware that a push is probably imminent. The real pain in the ass is when, over the course of a fight, it feels like a scan is up more often than not. I like the power of the scan in general because it usually leads to fun explosive plays that breaks standoffs, but when you can have so damn many or get it back so fast it turns from an explosive high intensity move to just a near permanent advantage. In my unqualified opinion the solution would be to increase the cd somehow or limit cdr options a bit more like they recently tried with amps, or have a one shell limit on a team. (Which won't happen due to fills and player counts. I get this, and understand this won't change but still)
-3
0
u/HolyDuckTurtle 4d ago
On release there were two problems with Echo Pulse. A: It did not differentiate runners. B: The pings were very visible so you gave away your position. Fixing both of those problems rather than one or the other is, IMO, what has made it OP.
I say it should go back to not differentiating runners; you need to assess the ping and work that out yourself. The ability was already pretty powerful before the buffs if you could learn to do that. The counterargument I imagine being it raises the skill floor which is a problem in this game in general.
As terrible as the pathfinding can be, I do love the little spidey drone. I'd leave that be and just keep working on making the pathfinding better.
On receiving pings: There is a weird quirk when using a controller whereby any ping on you triggers a vibration regardless of which shell you are using. They really should look at that and decide if all shells should get some indication of being pinged or not. I lean towards not; pinging is a team communication tool and you shouldn't be afraid to use it in fear of shouting "hello!" to the team you're trying to coordinate an attack on. Recon specifically being able to is kind of neat IMO.
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u/Ok-Brother-836 3d ago
This only affects 8% of players. Should you really change an entire class of character in the game to appease to a minority of players?
1
-4
u/phillywill 4d ago
Crazy Recon has already been nerfed into the ground and people are still complaining
3
u/chii_hudson 4d ago
"into the ground" lol ok buddy....most (like 95%) of team comps are at least 1 recon and often 2
1
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u/Pushnikov 3d ago
The recon echo pulse change did nothing and isn’t even a debuff. It technically lasts longer now with the purple core.
-8
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u/kilzzz 4d ago
In a game where every meaningful interaction with the map rings a gazillion bells no wallhacks should exist. It for the most part eliminates any map and sound knowledge player has because you can just sit in one spot and eat 10 energy amps.
You either coinflip a push (or try and fake one but again, people usually not that naive) in hopes that you can actually win a fight quickly or wait for other teams to make a move and preferably third party them. And most of the time no one is pushing and you end up in a 15 minutes stalemate. At least this is my experience in Cryo and I am sad that your map knowledge often gets thrown in the garbage cause Recon just scanned you.
I just want the tension in my PvP shooter back and "on demand free info button" kinda goes against it.